To get the ball rolling... [A Prestige System]

[Uthaniel]

If the server is stagnant, it's the players' fault. Truth be told, CotH has lost it's spirit of a community.

Some may disagree with me, but it no longer has the feel of a single entity; It turned into a bunch of split groups that keep to themselves.

[Kaelvan]

If the server is stagnant, it's the players' fault. Truth be told, CotH has lost it's spirit of a community.

Some may disagree with me, but it no longer has the feel of a single entity; It turned into a bunch of split groups that keep to themselves.

I haven't been back too long so I'm sure my opinion differs from yours but I still feel that community vibe when I'm here. I've been on virtually every other server that's around or has been around and you won't find something that's close to CotH when it comes to how the community works.

That's just my view though.

As a note, sometimes after a large drama fest, the server does lose a bit of that feel but it always comes back. It's just the cycle of life here.

[Grakor456]

I didn't say -that- was. They become famous... in an extremely tiny portion to us OOCly. People just joining the server won't know them, there's no impact of them anywhere, really. Things can't actually -happen- to Azeroth. It's forbidden, and I still don't understand why. I recall when there were lore changing events in the past, and even though this has become quite derailed, why are they gone, again? Because I don't quite remember.

Fame always relies on context and someone having been around. The prestige system, or indeed conquest RP, doesn't change that, so your entire argument seems rather silly.

That said, "lore altering" RP (particularly conquest) was disallowed because: A, some people prefer a server that is true to Blizzard lore, and if we march off on our own direction it stops being a WoW server and instead becomes a fan fiction server, and B, conquest RP in particular doesn't yield long-term benefits. Past events, such as the Arathi Wars, Stromgarde, and especially the Sin'sholai, have always revealed the same thing: they spark a little RP for a short period, then leave behind a big mess as people move back to the main cities for more tavern RP. Conquest RP has always been a "short term gain, long term loss" sort of deal.

[Psychyn]

It's coming back?

Then so am I.

It saddens me greatly to know that system as awful and out of place as the prestige system (which has *always* been awful and out of place) has nonetheless become so important to players that they don't feel they can RP on CotH without it.

Honestly, this thread is depressing.

Hell, I'm just going to throw in my off-topic note that I'm glad I'm not the only one with this. I'm tired of seeing these threads, and the subject constantly arriving. I've never been in favor of prestiges, and I doubt I'll ever be.

If the server is stagnant, it's the players' fault. Truth be told, CotH has lost it's spirit of a community.

Some may disagree with me, but it no longer has the feel of a single entity; It turned into a bunch of split groups that keep to themselves.

Agreed.

sometimes after a large drama fest, the server does lose a bit of that feel but it always comes back. It's just the cycle of life here.

As for this, I've already decided that if the place turns into another drama-fest because of these sickening prestiges, I'm gone. If people can't have fun without prestiges, can't develop their characters without prestiges, I'm clearly RPing in the wrong place. Man, Niarrin has been through more then the average prestige-awaiting player and she's just a Sentinel. Saraya? Same thing, and she was just a rogue who played her cards wrong in the end.

Prestiges are not the sole way of gaining character progression, learning and strengthening your characters. A lot of all that can be achieved with simple RP and simple adventures.

As for a more on-topic note, I'd rather wait for the official one. Reasons stated above and I'm somewhat curious as how the team tries to please everyone of the playerbase with a 'new' system.

Aaand, I'm out of this thread again. <3 Much love without sparkles.
Psynub.

[Cressy]

I remember when I first joined, prestiges were never even thought of. None of us really cared, we were too busy running around doing stupid shenanigans to worry about that. And you know what? We were content. We were happy and had fun with our friends. But everyone seems to only care about that power aspect, and..it has kind of put a damper on things. :c

[PiesOfNub]

I remember when I first join prestiges were never even thought of. None of us really cared, we were to busy running around doing stupid shenanigans to worry about that. And you know what? We were content. We were happy and had fun with our friends. But everyone seems to only care about that power aspect, and..it has kind of put a damper on things. :c

This. This everywhere.

When I joined, the community was vibrant, fun, and well.. We just got up to silly crap as Cressy said. The RP was good because it's purpose was to be fun, not become a cesspool of power-mongering.

At first, the story was the priority, with fun being a very important bi-product. Now, and even before I left for another tiny bit, the story is just a bi product, the priority being power.

/old person rant

[Cressy]

/old person rant

I feel this way every time I talk about this subject, or even the server in general.

/waggles cane at new players

"Back in my day! We had to run fifty miles to get to our OOC zones and had to wait months to get our profiles approved! Damn whipper snappers!"

[flammos200]

...Here's where I ask that people keep on-topic.

Anyhow, a Prestige system is a 'Like and Want' not a 'Need'.

A Prestige system is designed -not- for any Power aspect(Hence setting Prestiges almost on par with Core Classes - giving them strengths and weaknesses), but for storyline and character development purposes.

Characters can achieve insanely great things without being a Prestige - and often do so...

Before becoming a Warden, my Sylvandre had helped take down a Dreadlord, a Doomlord, a Doomguard, countless Satyr, Infernals and Fel-hounds, led a group against the Thieves' Guild, and managed to help off a certain Sagi.
...Did I mention that she got to time-travel? Because she did. All in player or GM-sponsored events.

All of that, as a mere NElf Warrior. Warcraft is based on heroic deeds, yes. And the point is that -anyone- can do them, regardless of Prestige, Core Class or whatever.

A Prestige Class System seeks not to replace the entertainment value of RP. Instead, it seeks to enhance it by giving the players more tools to work with. Hence why I insist on out-of-combat/utility spells so much. Darkness, Spiderclimb, Zone of Truth, Scrying, etc.

Back on topic, I think I'll race with the Official system and see which one can get done first. One Prestige per day would mean that I -should- be done in 40 days or so, which is a month and a few days over a week.

I do it 'cause it's fun. Not for any other reason, and certainly not for any malicious one. Really, it's nice being able to spread the word about what certain Prestiges can do, even if the system doesn't end up being adopted or anything. I like giving a little back to the community. /shrug.

Anyhow, have fun!

This Prestige System is sponsored by the Atomic Ale corporation's 'Nucular Beer' department.

[Aphetoros]

I didn't say -that- was. They become famous... in an extremely tiny portion to us OOCly. People just joining the server won't know them, there's no impact of them anywhere, really. Things can't actually -happen- to Azeroth. It's forbidden, and I still don't understand why. I recall when there were lore changing events in the past, and even though this has become quite derailed, why are they gone, again? Because I don't quite remember.

Fame always relies on context and someone having been around. The prestige system, or indeed conquest RP, doesn't change that, so your entire argument seems rather silly.

That said, "lore altering" RP (particularly conquest) was disallowed because: A, some people prefer a server that is true to Blizzard lore, and if we march off on our own direction it stops being a WoW server and instead becomes a fan fiction server, and B, conquest RP in particular doesn't yield long-term benefits. Past events, such as the Arathi Wars, Stromgarde, and especially the Sin'sholai, have always revealed the same thing: they spark a little RP for a short period, then leave behind a big mess as people move back to the main cities for more tavern RP. Conquest RP has always been a "short term gain, long term loss" sort of deal.

My first response is that I thought I mentioned earlier I'd drifted slightly from the prestige topic, apologies on that mark. But conquest RP as it's so called does in fact change it. "Hey remember General So-and-So, he lead that campaign against Khaz Modan, he's such a beastly dude." Our characters... can't really gain things like that. Much of what makes Warcraft Warcraft. Honestly, the biggest part of my rant includes things that happened... in the past. Things that aren't happening now that Flammos mentioned. The events, the memorable events, the time-travel, the feeling of an epic storyline. I don't really see how RPing our own storylines and doing some conquest makes it any less of a ... blizzard server. I'm not saying I want someone to usurp Varian or assassinate Sylvanas, but just a bit of something, y'know? I feel like if you ask to do something, it's going to be denied. I miss those days of CotH where I felt like I could actually get roleplay. I'm sure more people will show up with the summer as well, but perhaps if people flock back to the cities, maybe events need to keep interest somehow? Honestly I wasn't there for Sin'sholai, Stromgarde, Arathi Wars, etc. But ever since the good-evil conflict seemed to end with the baddies losing their fight and shrinking back to the shadows... the RP seemed to have followed. Idle tavern RP is fine every once and a while for me, and I respect the people that enjoy only tavern RP, but I feel like I want something more and I don't know how to get something like that started on CotH again. I'm not trying to be difficult, really, I just want to help. To be honest... I thought we stopped the events to prepare for Cata (Not alter the lore so we didn't have to do a restart...) And also, just a sidenote, I don't really understand the server and prestiges come to think of it. I'm sure you recall towards the beginning of my joining the server chuckling about my many prestigey mishaps. A bunch of people made it seem like you needed one to actually survive the server, and I was a bit obsessed with them for a while haha ^_^;;. But now that I do have one (and I really only have one true prestige. My hexxer isn't used much and is really just a variant on shaman IMO) I see that they aren't that big of a deal.

That said, I feel like I'm rambling now, so I'm going to try to get back on topic. As for this system, I do enjoy it and I think it would be better as guidelines for the classes (the ones you've posted.) The actual abilities are a great start to show what one -can- do as their prestige. I know that's a big issue I had at first, much to GM dismay!

[Kaelvan]

I didn't say -that- was. They become famous... in an extremely tiny portion to us OOCly. People just joining the server won't know them, there's no impact of them anywhere, really. Things can't actually -happen- to Azeroth. It's forbidden, and I still don't understand why. I recall when there were lore changing events in the past, and even though this has become quite derailed, why are they gone, again? Because I don't quite remember.

Fame always relies on context and someone having been around. The prestige system, or indeed conquest RP, doesn't change that, so your entire argument seems rather silly.

That said, "lore altering" RP (particularly conquest) was disallowed because: A, some people prefer a server that is true to Blizzard lore, and if we march off on our own direction it stops being a WoW server and instead becomes a fan fiction server, and B, conquest RP in particular doesn't yield long-term benefits. Past events, such as the Arathi Wars, Stromgarde, and especially the Sin'sholai, have always revealed the same thing: they spark a little RP for a short period, then leave behind a big mess as people move back to the main cities for more tavern RP. Conquest RP has always been a "short term gain, long term loss" sort of deal.

You have a point when it comes to events such as the Sin'sholai and Stromgarde Battles, it was still good RP. However, perhaps you should work with what's clearly been proven up to this point. The events are fun but in the end, everyone goes back to doing what they were doing and so a major mess is left behind with no one doing anything with it. Why not focus on minor things then?

The Arathi Wars were fun and in the end, the only thing that really changed was.. what, the Sin'sholai blocked off Thoradins Wall and the Horde took a farm? Wasn't really all that major in my opinion.

What of the Lich King events like in Ratchet? The only 'major' change was a whole bunch of people from Ratchet died. Aside from that, it was really fun and opened up new RP opportunities for a whole guild ( The Bloodsworn Honorguard back when it was tineh. )

Sorry to go off-topic. Perhaps someone should make a topic for the side-discussion we seem to be havin'.

[Beltharean]

I feel like people are dismissing The Battle for Stoneralon. You guys realize it was a massive battlefront -centered- around conquest in a GM approved and altered environment. The only problem was there was no idle RP, and it would have been more RP-productive to have mini player skirmishes between NPC fights to keep the action going, even if it is inevitable to cause drama. Because guess what? Drama brings a sense of unity after it's all over, leading to more productive RP and RP experiences.

[flammos200]

Sorry to go off-topic. Perhaps someone should make a topic for the side-discussion we seem to be havin'.

Please do so. Topics that are not immediately relevant to this Prestige System should be taken elsewhere than this thread.

Thanks!

[DaveM]

It's coming back?

Then so am I.

It saddens me greatly to know that system as awful and out of place as the prestige system (which has *always* been awful and out of place) has nonetheless become so important to players that they don't feel they can RP on CotH without it.

Honestly, this thread is depressing.

Honesly? I thought the exact same thing. Meh, this place is going to Hell in a basket.

Right, well, as shallow as it may be to want RP with a certain thing in place, it's perhaps as shallow to assume "I'm back with the Prestiges" means I only enjoy power-RP and think RP sucks without it.

Many people I have roleplayed with, I think, can vouch it's not about that.

"Honestly," If it's worth calling out as depressing that some players didn't want to play with the Prestiges suspended, it might also be worth pointing out how two prestiges I started on got shut down by two prestige-system suspensions thus far and how feedback on trying to promote the resolving of this outstanding situation was all but ignored were all also very depressing for me and may have caused me to feel estranged. You know, just to add nuance to my shallow reaction.

[Rigley]

Alrighty then! I haven't read through the previous posts due to me just getting back from college orientation, but here's a bit of insight as to what has been taking so long; It is, of course, hardly an excuse, but y'know. Knowledge is power.

Basically, we're rewriting all of the prestige articles, and attempting to be very clear and definite in what abilities a class can have.

"But Rigley!" you may correctly say, "Isn't that just tacking on an even longer wait to an already snail-paced project"?

Well, you're right, and getting the majority of the GM's consent on the articles doesn't speed things up. The thing is, upon reviewing past issues with many prestiges, one of the big issues was that people didn't know what the class could do. People often turned to the d20 (a set that allows you to cast wishes and miracles), and while it would be easy to say 'yeah, don't use that', other people did stuff from the d20 that we were fine with.

So basically the proposed revision would be that we have a very clear-cut list of abilities for each class- that way we wouldn't have confusion as to what people are capable of. The obvious flaw here is that this might prove restraining, being that not every GM knows their articles inside and out- but the simple fix to that is have a suggestion box for new abilities. I'm not sure if that would manifest in a GM suggestion post or a whole subforum for its own- But, y'know, we'll see.


Hopefully I'm not saying anything I wasn't supposed to, but I think that pretty much sums up what I'm attempting to get at.

And, uh. I'm actually not sure if this post is even relevant, and if it isn't, then apologies. Not posting this to start a debate, but just to explain our side.


Assuming it isn't already explained back here.

...

[flammos200]

...That's pretty much what I've been doing too, Rigley. Getting the stuff that actually makes sense, from the D20.

With none of the overpowered silliness, with none of the miracles nor other such 'uber' things.

Only, I've taken to the speed of lacking consensus rule on my choices.

So, yeah. As they say in acting: Break a leg!