Risque Images and Writing on the Forums

[Hawk]

... Can't we all just agree Grakor set some good guidelines and be done with it? ._.

I know Grakor asked for feedback and all, but... really, everyone is just attempting to have their say in what they think is inappropriate or offensive and it's what is making this debate go on and on. There's not going to be a conclusion just because of all the different opinions.

Furthermore, the topic has been derailed so many times that, if it were my thread, I'd have personally closed it and told people to take the debates on adult forum boards or whatever elsewhere. We're barely grasping onto the original topic as it is.

EDIT: Freedom of speech is a strange thing, isn't it? It allows people to say whatever they want, but also lets people object to whatever people say if they find it offensive. It's just doomed people to an endless cycle of debate.

[LostStranger]

Duraza's awesome post goes here. Read it!

What would be the correct reaction to, say, a vocal minority?

Something considered benign by most might horrify a dissenting few, and any resultant withdrawal of the "controversial" crafts may instead prove to be detrimental to the community as a whole.

At the same time, dismissing any outcry as vocal minority by rule of thumb, consciously or not, could quite likely include disavowing valid uproar. Ocasionally, the maverick may even have a point.

...So yes, as Rensin noted, a distinct code of law is the only fair means to dictate what flies and what's introduced to the business end of a flak cannon...

...except any line in the sand we draw will be completely arbitrary.

There is no flawless solution.

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EDIT: So, yeah, settling on Grakor's tentative rulebook would be as halfhearted as rocketing our garbage into space, and might have some trouble over the sin of poorly-defined semantics, but any other option is quicksand.

[Hawk]

...So yes, as Rensin noted, a distinct code of law is the only fair means to dictate what flies and what's introduced to the business end of a flak cannon...

...except any line in the sand we draw will be completely arbitrary.

There is no flawless solution.

Exactly. Then people complain when they don't get a say.

EDIT: I do hope Grakor's next post is, "I'm closing the thread now.", heh.

[Duraza]

If I was honestly making someone uncomfortable and I was respectfully approached on the issue I hope I'd honor that I'd take that person's opinion into account.

Perhaps... in my attempt to be brief some of my words were overlooked. I wasn't trying to suggest that with every little thing someone dislikes you need to just be like "oh, let me take this down." More so, that we as a community should not be afraid to open conversation with each other on a personal level and work out what's wrong.

I may have seemed to be favoring one side over the other but that's just because (once again) I tried to be short and keep my post to a few points I thought were relevant considering the rest of the thread.

Edit: I also may have accidentally still have been being somewhat specific in my other post to certain things on my mind about the topic... Though I was attempting to not do so. Such is the curse of being unable to separate all my own opinions and experiences from my arguments. But yeah, I hope this clarifies the general gist.

[Harmonic]

No, my response was to the post above yours, Rigley, you just beat me to the posting punch, heh.

But yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Policing this any further than what is already (sadly) happening, is just silly. It's been talked to death, I swear, I'm sick of seeing muddled ideas from both sides at this point... take what you got people, and go -on- with other and better things, aye?

Edit: To Duraza: What I was trying to convey is that if we did go along that route, it'd end poorly as people are having a hell of a time taking criticism, as well as being able to give out actual CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. The firm rule behind it is better than trying to add in the muddled more-idea-than-a-rule of respect. It's very, very rare that respect is given when it's not earned, and in most cases people should be met with neutrality rather than outright praise for everything that they've done...

We could go further with this, and it'd devolve even further and start on the idea of -once again- restructuring CoTH's rules. Something that just... can't be done without changing the community as a whole. It's all good and nice to have this idea that we'll actually communicate well...

But let's be honest. If that was happening this shit wouldn't be here now.

[LostStranger]

Rensin's edit outpaced me.

Spoiler:

...that we as a community should not be afraid to open conversation with each other on a personal level and work out what's wrong.

Though I'm sorry to undermine Rensin's efforts to shepherd in a conclusion as swift and graceful as can be...

...It's vividly apparent in hindsight that people are jerks. (Especially LostStranger, that $@#%.)

People aren't going to remember to play polite, not every time, not even the most meditative minds.

Besides, the belief has been expressed that some things should never have dawdled into this forum in the first place.

[CappnRob]

>Grak makes a post putting down some good flexible guidelines
>one day later it has exploded into an 11 page free-for-all over I don't even know because like hell I'm reading this whole thing

SHINE ON COTH YOU CRAZY DIAMOND

[LostStranger]

>one day later

If I may...

It has only been just under twenty hours since the announcement.

Almost a day.

[Harmonic]

Most of it is just arguing over the same crap that should have been now -resolved- by the rules.

[Grakor456]

At the risk of reviving a drama thread...

I've spoken with Kretol and discussed the responses this thread has gotten, as well as worked with him to see what he wants for the forums. We have updated the forum rules (located with the announcements at the top) and made a couple of minor changes on our part.

To respond to a point made earlier, I forget by whom:

There was talk about why "sex = bad, violence = good" in America and the like. I don't deny that such is a common sensibility where I'm from. That said, I don't think we're being hypocritical. We have, in the past, asked players to change avatars and signatures away from ones that had overly gory images. So, take that as you will, I suppose.

[Psychyn]

Any imagery that can be insulting to other players.

I honestly.. find this too 'vague' myself. Is there any rewording possible? As.. Anything can be insulting to players, so leading from the words, it's best not to post any images at all.

Not intending to stir something up, just asking for a rewording to be more clear on the subject. From the definition page ;

Insulting:
2. Obsolete To make an attack on.
2. To give offense; offend: a speech that was intended to insult.
b. Something that causes bodily injury, irritation, or trauma:

(Just quoted those that relate here)

And then offend ;

Offend:
1. To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.
2. To be displeasing or disagreeable to:
1. To result in displeasure

(Figured I'd link offend to insulting)

Nearly anything can cause 'wounded' feelings or be a disagreeable subject/image. So is there any way for that last note to be differently worded?

Also, on lighter note ;

If you have a problem with the ruling of a Moderator, you are free to PM Grakor (unless the problem is with him, then feel free to PM me.)

So if we got a problem, we PM Grakor. If we got a problem with Grakor, we also PM Grakor! Can't avoid that big guy huh? ;> (Yeah I know, that 'me' was suppose to be Kretol)

[Wuvvums]

I can't find any of these new rules anywhere; someone got a direct link?

[Psychyn]

At y'er service!

http://www.conquestofthehorde.com/Announ...Read-First

1. Keep things in a roughly PG-13 rating here. The forums count as a "public channel" for all rules regarding what content is and is not allowed. Some examples of things not allowed:

a. Pornographic art or stories, including depictions of detailed nudity and overly "fetishized" characters (such as extremely revealing clothing, extraordinarily large sexual attributes, and so on.)
b. Overly gory imagery.
c. Any imagery that can be insulting to other players.

This rule applies to the forums as a whole, for writing done within, images posted within, and avatars or signature. Note that links to such are also not okay. While questions on what is or is not allowed is fine, GMs and the Administrative team have the final say on interpreting a given work. As a general rule of thumb: if you would not want to show something to a ten year-old with his mother standing over his shoulder, you probably shouldn't put it on our forums.

[Grakor456]

Any imagery that can be insulting to other players.

I honestly.. find this too 'vague' myself. Is there any rewording possible?

If there is a different way to phrase this available, I'm willing to hear it.

[Piroska]

Loathe as I am to couch it this way, how about something like, "any imagery that could reasonably be expected to be insulting to other players"? It's vague again, but it still maintains that there is hopefully some standard by which decisions are being rendered. And any shady areas can be gauged on an individual basis by either Grakor or Kretol.


Edit: This also hopefully avoids extreme situations, where a single individual is offended by something totally unexpected that may not be considered offensive to the community as a whole.