Undead Question

[Timothycw]

Ok, this is why I am posting this for everyone to see. Rensin asked me to ask Nostra this question and then Nostra said it is unclear so post it on the forums so everyone can particibate and for people with the same question to use as a reference. Here is my question:

Is it ok for an undead to not have been made until after the plague?

Example: An undead raised after the third war by a group of rogue necromancers.

[Kainue]

Whao, you might be on to something there. I mean, there really isn't anything in the lore that says it's impossible. Perhaps someone well versed in the Warcraft lore should take a look at this.

[Timothycw]

The idea came to me when I was playing WC2 and noticed they had undead raised by Deathknights. Also, necromancers can res undead as well.

[FrozenFire]

Well, using any experience I have, undead raised by necromancers or Death Knights can't stay along too long. They tend to just die out after a short amount of time. I think we could consult Qaza a bit about this, having a mummy-type character. I think part of the Undead staying undead is being biologically capable (The chemical bit of the scourge, preserving the body, something along those lines) and having a reasonable amount of magical aid. (Necromancy, Voodoo, etc. )

My synopsis: Since Necromancers (in Wc3) and Death Knights raise bodies on the fly, there subjects lack the 'physical' bit to remain animated, or maybe the raiser was just unskilled. I'd assume the body just falls apart. If a body was reanimated through chemical, biological, and magical means, they could remain undead. (Remember even Undead can 'die', after a long time their brain gives out or something and they revert to a mindless zombie. )

This is just my idea from observing stuff here and there. It might be right, It might be wrong.

[Harmonic]

Ahh, you didn't get specific about it. Well, here's the deal. This type of undead, brought back by a necromancer, would be utterly mindless. Hence, the scourge mobs.

I thought you were talking about "after the plague" as in a recently "Risen" Forsaken, which is why I was confused.

After discussing it with other GM's, I've basically come to the conclusion that the only way possible would be if they were recently revived for whatever reason, BUT, they had to die FROM the plague.

Also, next time, wait for us to talk it over, instead of impatiently posting a topic about it.

[Timothycw]

I was told to post it on the forums -.- but thanks. So I can have a recently risen undead ONLY if it was cuased by the plague. Thanks for the info though. But yeah, not to be rude or anything, but in the first post of this thread I did mention I was told to post this here. If you don't believe me I can bring up the PM records.

[Nostra]

Yeah, I asked him to post the question on the forums, thought other players might benefit from seeing it instead of always come and ask a GM about it.

And I agree with Rensin, undead raised by necromancers and other practioneers of the "dark arts" would be completely mindless and slaves to the raiser. There are exceptions, Qaza´s "zombie" trolls for instance, they were raised by a Master Graven One and then "let free", but, even then traces of the slavery remains, her family members are loyal to her and to the family.

Of course, there are other ways for undead to rise, but I think they should be taken on a case to case basis instead. Especailly since most of them end up being "uber leet godmodders.

[ShadowStormSimon]

So if undead CAN rise, I can get Ilassa back? and yes, She was infected by the plague.

[sasail]

Eugh. That brings along some kind of fad of everyone having a character previously perished come back as Undead and even to the point of people killing their characters so they can come back undead (as I have seen previously)

[brattman412]

Well then, how about you can have two choices, have your first and last resurrection, or become undead. But, that depends on how much punishment your character received when they died.

[Nostra]

Ilassa was infect with a weak version of the plague, as I´ve said, it should just kill her. There are other ways but I doubt any of them will be allaivable to me or you in the nearest future, if ever.

And Sasail have a really good point, we do not want that.

brattman412, I don´t know, limitations and rules are good but sometimes it´s better to just use commonsense. "Could this character be raised, logically?"

And, we should not forget that the Lich King has regained his powers, his will is as strong as before the Forsaken broke free. I think we should take that into account as well.

[brattman412]

Good point there Nostra. And Simone, Ilasa was infected with the plague, so logically, if she were to revive on the count of it, she would serve the Scourge wouldn't she?