Northshire Abbey phased

[Cassius]

We're just not comfortable with people going wild with it and running wherever they please in a phase though.

I would suggest blocking off the entrance sort of like what was done with Ravenholdt manor.

Um....

I hate to be a killjoy as Northshire Abbey's a lovely place, but what Rigley said stands. Does the Monastery available on the OOC Portal not suffice?

No it doesn't, for reasons which were already mentioned above.

I still fail to capture what the issue with this is... Is it too complicated to do? Will it cause any problems? Is blocking off the entrance and phasing an area really that difficult? Please, someone enlighten me because....as stupid as this may seem...I am confused at our current discussion.

Hey cool look 100th post.

[Harmonic]

I gotta say too, I'm kinda confused as to what the GMs are trying to convey here. I understand the bit about people running willy-nilly to places like Lordaeron, but areas such as Northshire Abby... I think players want areas that are unpopulated such as the abbey to do some private guild RP, rather than say "OH HEY, I'm in Northshire Abby with noone around, time to derp it up ICly and pretend we are saviors of the world!"


There are other places that would be neat if they were empty, like, say... Fenris Keep. Sometimes an overflow of NPCs ruins the atmosphere and the idea of control.

Edit: Which I know is the intention... but why? There are so many areas dedicated to other storylines, why would it be bad to allow certain areas to be open for guilds to RP in without having to worry about NPC's fogging it up?

[Aadora]

I understand this all, mostly. But let's look at this from a different perspective. I am seeing this all as a point of how we can further avoid people from abusing the mechanics. Sure, GMs can phase people when they want to be in a reasonable place. But why not be allowed to use places that look nice, like the example most used here Scholomance? If people are actually saying that it's Scholomance, and not just some big building then yeah, that is understandably wrong.

But even if people did run off to try to RP as -the savior of -Lordaeron- then those people shouldn't be on the server at all if they are going to try to link that to RP that affects other people.

I'm not trying to say it's my place to say who should and shouldn't be banned or allowed on the server or whatever. I am just saying, it was made clear before people join that RPing as such things has no place here. It's all about common sense, and I think denying people the ability to RP in places simply because they might abuse the freedom of where they can be is a bit much. If I wanted to be queen of Scholomance... then I would just go in and kill the mobs there while RPing. Which is also against the rules is it not?

My final example to bring up another point.

Black Harvest had a manor they had taken from Scarlets.
It was not a phased location.
Finally we gave up asking for phases because 90% of the time there would be no GM online to phase us. So we would run there from Ravenholdt.
Now no portal to phased area, no GMs online? no RP for Black Harvest in the manor.

While I believe we relocated anyways to a place in phase 1, the problem would stand for other things. Without GMs online to ask, and no way to get there ourselves it breaks RP.

Now to ask, why have I recently been making such big posts on threads like this...

---

I gotta say too, I'm kinda confused as to what the GMs are trying to convey here. I understand the bit about people running willy-nilly to places like Lordaeron, but areas such as Northshire Abby... I think players want areas that are unpopulated such as the abbey to do some private guild RP, rather than say "OH HEY, I'm in Northshire Abby with noone around, time to derp it up ICly and pretend we are saviors of the world!"


There are other places that would be neat if they were empty, like, say... Fenris Keep. Sometimes an overflow of NPCs ruins the atmosphere and the idea of control.

Edit: Which I know is the intention... but why? There are so many areas dedicated to other storylines, why would it be bad to allow certain areas to be open for guilds to RP in without having to worry about NPC's fogging it up?

And on this note... Yes.

In trying to stop people from becoming the ruler [Or whatever nonsense people could come up with to abuse it] of what a place is OOC, you are taking away the ability to use it as what it could be IC.

I have seen a lot of RP areas denied from getting portals simply because of what or where they are OOC.

Though of course if it is the final ruling of the GMs to do so, then I'm not going to argue. I'm just giving my little input of opinion!

[Cressy]

You know, the location shouldn't make the RP. It shouldn't dictate if you are able to RP having a guild hall that looks like what you wanted.

[Kenshiro]

Northshire Abbey has like... Eight NPCs in it. All of whom do not move.

Nobody else goes there. Privacy is well ensured.

Why not just use the location? No need for a phasing for it, if you ask me.

[Harmonic]

You know, the location shouldn't make the RP. It shouldn't dictate if you are able to RP having a guild hall that looks like what you wanted.

It seldom does, but what I'm getting at is that it'd be fun to have, and could add to it.

[Rigley]

I still fail to capture what the issue with this is... Is it too complicated to do? Will it cause any problems? Is blocking off the entrance and phasing an area really that difficult? Please, someone enlighten me because....as stupid as this may seem...I am confused at our current discussion.

Actually I'd be perfectly fine with that area being phased and blocked off. That wasn't the point of my post prior.

I gotta say too, I'm kinda confused as to what the GMs are trying to convey here. I understand the bit about people running willy-nilly to places like Lordaeron, but areas such as Northshire Abby... I think players want areas that are unpopulated such as the abbey to do some private guild RP, rather than say "OH HEY, I'm in Northshire Abby with noone around, time to derp it up ICly and pretend we are saviors of the world!"

Again, my point wasn't regarding Northshire. It's the idea of people using the port to go to those locations, then dashing away to go RP in other areas-- From there I wouldn't expect much, granted, but then again people were perfectly willing to run from Ravenholdt to Scholo previously.

My concern isn't about Northshire, more from the idea of using phasing to go RP in other places that were not intended to be phased-- which was one of the suggestions. Now, do I have issue with people doing that? Yes. This specific instance of using Northshire? Not as much, no, but I'm still worried if people were to go a step further, as some have before.

While I believe we relocated anyways to a place in phase 1, the problem would stand for other things. Without GMs online to ask, and no way to get there ourselves it breaks RP.

Well, sorry. We need to sleep too. :B But I don't think a single location should ever be -that necessary- that it would totally break RP without it.

Regarding why Scholo can't just be called a different place... it's pretty significant in that it -is- Scholomance. It's not really easy to pass off that scourge crypt-turned-base into anything else. You could say its an evil hideout, but we already have one of those-- the catacombs. Do we really need another to fulfill the exact same role?

...And really that's been the issue with many areas which have been denied. Many can just be called redundant-- I recall a troll city was being requested for phasing; we already have two on the portal though. The only one which I think really could merit creation would be Fenris, honestly; even though I do think Northshire is harmless enough I would honestly say that the monastery should suffice. Power of imagination, and all that.

...As well, to note-- there's a reason Kretol has never made all of the hostile mobs on the server neutral, and it's kinda to prevent what was being done with phased Ravenholdt. So I'm not just speaking from my own point of view here, because I recall different iterations of that idea being thrown around in the past.

[CappnRob]

Eh, variety is the spice of life to me. I love have as many possible different flavors of places to RP in. Really, the location sometimes makes the RP more fun than the actual RP itself. I'm a loser for immersion like that.

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I'd just RP on Skype.

[Beltharean]

It's actually kind of unfortunate for me at least, that we have the current restrictions on phasing. Really the only usable property in Alterac (Where my main makes his home) is on the shore of Lordamere, and is -jammed- with NPC's. I was using Ravenholdt to phase myself and RP there along with any others who wanted to come and visit ICly, and found out it was against policy. It's kind of rendered Tress homeless OOCly, and makes it difficult to have a logical hub in the Valley. Granted I'm Unfriendly with the Syndicate so I can go anywhere, but others can't...

...And RPing by yourself usually isn't that much fun. :3

[Aadora]

Well, sorry. We need to sleep too. :B

Kinda uncalled for. I wasn't saying it was your fault. I was pointing the fault to the other side. That not having the portal makes it so we can't go to places like that when GMs aren't online. I wasn't saying that GMs being offline is bad. I was saying that the portal is our alternative rather than having to rely on GMs being online to get to places.

But I don't think a single location should ever be -that necessary- that it would totally break RP without it.

It's not that it breaks it completely. It's that when we decide to have a mini event like let's say defend the prisoners there from scourge? If there are no GMs online, we just use the portal and run there. And often even if there were GMs online so we wouldn't bother them and just do it ourselves.

Regarding why Scholo can't just be called a different place... it's pretty significant in that it -is- Scholomance. It's not really easy to pass off that scourge crypt-turned-base into anything else.

OOC... it is significantly Scholomance OOC.

Deadmines? Why can't that pass off as just some random mine?

Ravenholdt is significant isn't it?
Yet I have seen GMs even RP it as being on an island, rather than using GM island.

And why do we want a large variety of choices?
Sorry but no, Zul'Aman is not the same as Zul'Gurub or Zul'Farrak.

Each place is it's own.

The location makes the RP here. What makes me say that? It's the reason we RP ingame isn't it? So that we can actually see these things RPd out.

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I'd just RP on Skype.

[Rigley]

Kinda uncalled for. I wasn't saying it was your fault. I was pointing the fault to the other side.

That was a joke.

It's not that it breaks it completely. It's that when we decide to have a mini event like let's say defend the prisoners there from scourge? If there are no GMs online, we just use the portal and run there. And often even if there were GMs online so we wouldn't bother them and just do it ourselves.

Why can't one of the manors function as a representation for a home? And I say that in the same way towards Belth; you could easily just say that the building is in Alterac.

OOC... it is significantly Scholomance OOC.

It's an evil base in a crypt. We have the catacombs, which kinda fills that niche. It's also much more accessible for all involved and can have more than five people in it at once.

Deadmines? Why can't that pass off as just some random mine?

The mine has a huge dock with a orcish juggernaut in it. And again, it has a five-man cap; why not just use an existing mine?

Ravenholdt is significant isn't it?

It isn't hard to pass a manor off as any other manor, whereas Scholo is rather specific in what it is.

And why do we want a large variety of choices?
Sorry but no, Zul'Aman is not the same as Zul'Gurub or Zul'Farrak.

But do we really need -every single place-? Again, Kretol -could- make every hostile NPC neutral. But he doesn't and there's a reason for that. He's said no to it in the past, and really using phasing like this is just another way to get around his decision.

The location makes the RP here. What makes me say that? It's the reason we RP ingame isn't it? So that we can actually see these things RPd out.

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I'd just RP on Skype.

Sure. But does everything have to be precise? Heck, Hearthglen still has scarlet banners all over the place, do we consider those IC? No. We use our imagination and say they're not there. RPing in text and RPing in an improvised isn't the same thing, and I'm confused why the two would be compared. Just because I can't find the exact kind of building or set-up I want for an RP doesn't mean I go RP on Skype, I just improvise and use description. I'm pretty sure plenty of people on the server have done that, since we don't specifically customize a house to fit one person or another. I know plenty of people have likely pointed out 'And this decor would look like X' or 'This furniture wouldn't be there' or etc to flesh out what their surrounding is supposed to be like.

[Reigen]

Honestly, i see see this thread as being "Give an inch, take a mile" thing going on. The GMs have been very generous so far by giving us so many locations to RP at.

The original purpose of this thread has long been lost. If we want to discuss phasing, we really should make a new thread about it and put this thread back to where it should be going.

Edit: This way the person who made the thread can see comments related to his topic here instead of having to skip over discussion that has no relevance to it.

Northwhire Abbey Phased as a random abby in a place:

I can dig it, would be awesome for religious guilds that might not want a giant monastery, nor could afford one. Considering how it has a very 'out in the middle of nowhere' feel, could even go for some cult RP, or even for perhaps IC priest training. Either way, sounds like an awesome thing to have if it was blocked off from the rest of Elwyen so it could hopefully be open to hordies. [There are no sillymoon churches, which saddens me. Humans get all that cool stuff!]

[Harmonic]

Yeah, this has diverged a lot, and I'm against having every place accessable through this method, I just think there are a few places that could be left intentionally empty.

People do seem to be taking a few little things and saying "GIVE US ALL OF IT!".

Some places just are too... obvious, like Scholomance or a lot of other areas.

[Aadora]

This is my last post since, yeah... getting off the original post here but.

The mine has a huge dock with a orcish juggernaut in it. And again, it has a five-man cap; why not just use an existing mine?

Because all mines I know of are filled with mobs... and now we don't have a Phased location to run to them from so that there aren't mobs. Not saying I actually want to use a mine. It's just an example.

And Rensin.

The whole point of RPing in those areas is because they look "Cool" or however you want to say it. They are interesting.

Not a single house in WoW has a bathroom or a kitchen.

But we just say they do, because that's how it works in RP here. What you see OOC is not always what is IC. Scholomance is filled with libraries and a classroom. The Catacombs are a public place where people can do their evil and whatnot. The rooms are small and there isn't even really a library. Not saying that's bad, I like it as it is. But it's not the same atmosphere as Scholomance can be.

But Scholomance is just an example so oh well.

And Rigley. Yeah, I know there are Scarlet banners in Hearthglen and we just disregard them... so why can't we just disregard the scourge banners and such in Scholomance? Works in one place but not another? And while disregarding those things... you say, "Hey... this isn't Scholomance. This is just a secret underground school for Necromancers." Or whatever you want.

[flammos200]

Eh, variety is the spice of life to me. I love have as many possible different flavors of places to RP in. Really, the location sometimes makes the RP more fun than the actual RP itself. I'm a loser for immersion like that.

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I'd just RP on Skype.

Yeah, pretty much this.

A while ago, I was quite big into city/home RP. Now, playing a carpton of Blood Elves, that meant Sillymoon. But. There's only a single NPC-less building in Silvermoon, that you can pass for a 'house'. And I wasn't the only person wanting to RP there. At times, literal queues were formed outside it, waiting for one group to leave so the next could enter. Can you fathom how uncomfortable that is for the people inside? To know that they're being waited on, and that the group outside's standing there, judging?

Nowadays, the situation could easily have been solved with phasing. It's funny that people don't want us to resort to it, because it was created(alongside instancing itself) specifically to allow players access to areas and challenges without having to queue up, and wait for boss respawns or for one group to finish so the next can start.

Plus, phasing is quite elegant in that there aren't any walk-ins, for instance, unless such are wanted.

I'm not talking about insane places like RPing in the Nexus or other instances. Main Cities, for instance, are way, way bigger than they appear In-game. Phasing can be used to represent that. Thus, the phased part of the city is simply an extension of the bits represented in-game. 'Around' the same place, but not exactly the same place.

For instance, we have the Necropolis RP Location, in the OOC Portal. No one's gonna just say 'THIS IS ZERAMAS! IT IS OURS! /mwahahaha!" but rather, "This is just a Necropolis."

Same way Ravenholdt's "Just a mansion on a mountain-top." same way any number of crypts in the world can be "Just a random crypt." - Heck, the Eastern Kingdoms(Especially around Andorhal) is -littered- with countless crypts, extending as far South as the Badlands.

The problem here is fear. Fear of abuse. There's a distinct lack of trust my radar's picking up. It's not like people will or have ever said that they literally are RP-ing in a heavy Lore-location like Scholomance or Ulduar or the Nexus, now have they?

I support having a phased NS Abbey up, and that is my argument. Heck, I support the use of Phasing technology everywhere. Whilst also respecting that certain areas and instances are intentionally too dangerous and shouldn't be RP-ed in, even when you're phased.

Those're my two cents.