Anime Tropes appearing in Roleplay

[Ural]

[attachment=1995]

Nearly every fight I get into, whatever character is is, my character losses. It's a bit tiring at times, honestly. I'd be nice to see some improvement as time progresses, but I don't because of how awesome everyone else is. Or my character tries a spell in an event, fails the roll, and is only left with a "lolno" statement, complete with OOC teasing. My characters continually get beat into a pulp, even if they don't start the fight, or rush headfirst into a group. It's like I'm always holding up the white flag for someone else, and my arm is getting tired.

What's the motivation? How do I keep on keepin' on in a world of potential sues?

When someone picks up that mangled body of one of my characters, and shows compassion. When someone else lends an ear to listen, or a shoulder to cry on as my character vents their frustration. In the quiet time of the night, they discuss how nice if the hostilities of the world would just.. chill, and we could enjoy more of this peace. When someone else comes to my character's rescue. Or someone with knowledge offers to train my little weaklings. If none of that interaction is available, then it's when I put a purpose to their ineptitude, like the spirits' slight withdrawal for my shaman. My Druid's lack of desire to participate in a war that will surely kill many of kin. My warlock's desire for self-preservation.

My advice? If you see someone getting stomped on, go help them up. It might mean the world to the character, and maybe even the user.

[Aadora]

-Fighting is broken up with a lot of talking
-People on the sidelines never stop commenting
-Characters are pulling stunts that are physically impossible (ignore this is Naruto briefly)
-Almost every character has some 'unique super power'.

Ever seen The Sacred Blacksmith? In the first episode the guy makes a sword to defeat a giant demon. It takes him quite a while to do this while the girl is apparently "Holding the demon off".

If you watch... the entire time she is holding her sword towards the demon, and has her head turned watching him make the sword. APPARENTLY the demon just sat there the entire time too I suppose. She doesn't defend herself or attack it, and there are no signs it is even attacking her any more. It takes him a good amount of time to finish the blade, before he gets ready to fight the demon, at which point you see it was in fact standing there the entire time.

So yeah, I see what you mean about that first point... It isn't just talking though. From the example you can see that by anime standards, fighting will come to a complete halt when something important to the story happens, when in reality the demon would have cut the girl in half the second she turned around to watch him make the blade.

People on the sidelines commenting though is pretty natural. I mean it makes less sense to me for everyone to just stand around being completely silent as they fight. Obviously they are going to give their opinions on the fight and, why wait until it's over when there are plenty of people around them at that moment to hear them?

And stunts that are physically impossible? Well, there are a lot of things in WoW that are physically impossible. A human dual-wielding Claymores for example. And while I agree that a Tauren shouldn't be able to do a triple back flip landing on one hand and picking up his giant axe with the other, many things are possible that wouldn't be in the real world. But the limitations are still broken many times I agree.

Nobles? Well honestly a VERY small fraction of the server plays characters that are actually loyal to the Alliance or the Horde completely. Most PCs will go out and mate with the opposing faction, or have best friends in the opposing faction. Just some examples but, get what I'm saying? PCs honestly don't care if they upset Nobles because what can they do. Have them thrown out of the city? Their minds work in that situation going "Oh no what ever will I do! Oh that's right, I'll just go to Dalaran or another Alliance/Horde city."

I personally try to play my Noble as someone who doesn't care if people know she's a noble or not, but won't directly tell them. And she will NEVER demand higher respect than others and feels as though she has absolutely no authority, because let's face it... to pretty much all PCs she doesn't as I said above. Everyone treats Nobles as just someone else to talk to.

Let's say your favorite Celebrity, or any well known Celebrity for that matter walks up to you and asks to sit down and eat with you. You aren't going to go "Oh sure, please do." And then have a normal casual conversation with them if you know who they are. And Nobles are more than that.

In my opinion having a PC Noble or Lord means that specific House is important enough to be known to your characters. Why do I say this? Because there is a known IC story behind the House for it to have been made into a Player Owned Guild. Let's use House Harkov as an example.

House Harkov IC has a history of helping the lower class of Stormwind. They have done everything in their power from simply moving against taking their lands, to literally handing out gold to them. What does this mean? In Stormwind House Harkov when mentioned would most likely be known to just about anyone who spends their time there. With the death of the Lord that would cause fear in the lower class that this House that has supported them as a people will crumble, or turn on them. but it held strong and still supports them.

A while back there was an uprising. The lower class against the upper class. Lower class were tired of being treated so badly by Nobles and were or still are gathering to overthrow them, and take what they see as theirs. So for supporting them House Harkov suddenly became an enemy to the lower class?

People see Casey and even though at this point she would be a well known person, even just from gossip that "Casey Harkov the new Lady of House Harkov" is around. Yet even when she says her last name people have no idea who she is. Even people that have apparently lived in Stormwind for quite a while.

I'm not saying that House Harkov should be seen as more important than it currently is, which is not at all... but honestly it's like House Harkov is just a title, along with other Noble House guilds. There is a reason they are special profiles. If your character is treating a Noble like they are just another person, have a good reason for it.

You would need a pretty good reason to act as if nothing happened if Tirion Fordring walked up to your character, patted them on the shoulder and said "Good job", wouldn't you?

[Rigley]

I also don't totally understand why the level divide with so many people is, "You're either a snarky badass who spits in the face of dying, or you're a farmer who can't fight at all."

I was going to post this exact sentiment!

Middleground does exist, and really its not 'You want me to play a fearless warrior or a peasant?' that people are examining here. The difference is more akin to being an action movie hero or a normal guy. Or an in-between.

See, that's the thing. We -don't- want a server full of farmers and peasants, and to see the argument in that light is just wrong. The argument itself just shouldn't exist, as far as I'm concerned; you can be a warrior without being a complete master of swordplay, rather than just being a guy with a pitchfork who wandered out of Westfall and into some trouble.

I've mentioned this kind of sentiment before; that average is hardly average anymore. Average is strong, and that skews the power scale for which people will make their characters.

Before I carry on, let me define what I mean:

Average: Being of common quality in his or her field of practice. This does not restrict to being a farmer; they can be a soldier, warrior, mage, even a death knight. It just implies that they are not the best of the best. Such is usually relegated to lore NPCs either way.

See, before this system was admittedly easier. The only way you were above average was through the prestige system-- therein it was fairly clear-cut that those characters were better. But now that we've shifted away from the prestige system and onto variants... to me it almost feels like everyone thinks that the prestige level of power should still apply.

To me, it just isn't interesting to see a crowd of supermen. Just as it wouldn't be interesting to see a whole movie with action heroes in combat the entire time. Sure the big muscleman would be entertaining for the first half of shooting up military bases, dodging around bullets and leaving explosions in his wake, but after a certain point that's going to become stale. His lack of investment in anything in the situation makes him disinteresting beyond the aspect of hoo-rah macho gunfights; and from the viewer's perspective knowing that this character cannot be killed or even wounded just steals away any suspense or interest in the situation. Its just a big guy beating people up, and that can only be interesting for a short span of time.

Now of course it -is- alright to see those kinds of characters; but you're going to get kinda weary if the entire cast consists of them. There's no real variety at that point. Their fighting and their snarky one liners is fine for a while, but soon it'll just receive groans and forced chuckles.


...On another note, there's nothing wrong with being brave. But being brave does not mean one is wholly fearless. You can go fight a giant bone dragon in a bout of bravery knowing fully well that the fight is a doomed one, or being intensely fearful of their situation. Being cowardly and being fearful are two different things, essentially. One could bravely fight against odds in the defense of something or someone, or fight out of desperation-- mouths have to be fed, after all. The big thing is giving some motive behind your bravery, not just being brave for the sake of being battle-hardened and emotionless.

Fear does not make a character weak, it makes them more believable. Fear can serve as a very interesting facet to a character, sometimes moreso than their antics on the battlefield. It can make them more complex if done correctly. Fear is just accepting the gravity of a situation and acknowledging that 'hey, this could end -badly- for me'. Bravery doesn't counteract fear, snark does.

One liners are fun. I get that. Its just that seeing people constantly spout out taunts and the like in the middle of battle just seem kinda like throwing comic relief all around your action movie's fights. It accomplishes neither well, and brings down the feeling for both.

...

Ramble ramble ramble.

I'll stop here. Might ramble more later, but I'm pretty unfocused.

[SachikoMaeda]

Let's say your favorite Celebrity, or any well known Celebrity for that matter walks up to you and asks to sit down and eat with you. You aren't going to go "Oh sure, please do." And then have a normal casual conversation with them if you know who they are. And Nobles are more than that.

I'm not sure about Stormwind nobility, but Silvermoon nobility tends to have some political pull. Not as much as the Magisters, but it's there. In Leron's case he's married to a Magister. So he'd have a bit more political pull there. Someone gets on his bad side? He could probably start spreading rumors that they're a traitor and funneling Blood Elven secrets to the Alliance or something. Would he? Probably not seeing as how nobility comes with responsibilities.

I'd safely say nobility would be better compared to political officials. Celebrities can go out, party, get smashed, and act a fool as often as they please and they'll still whatever job they have. Nobles do have to watch out for their image or they can loose their standings with their nation. The only way Leron can possibly get away with his alliances on the opposing factions is that he supports the Argent Crusade, a neutral faction, and will aid others who also support the Crusade. "An ally of my ally is an ally."

EDIT: I just woke up. Chances are I'm making no sense.

[CappnRob]

I'm not saying this fella isn't awesome, but if all his underlings were as powerful as he was, who'd fear Lu Bu?

Funny you mention Lu Bu, because as a person he was completely shallow and despicable, serving only himself, and died a dishonorable death for it in the end. FUNNY THAT.

By the way, +1 for the Lu Bu/Dynasty reference reference. I need DW7. :C

The book is better than any of the DW games >:V


...

anyway, on topic. I mostly agree with your post, Xigo, but as far examples go, I think you've some bias with your videos of choice. Naruto is bargain-bin run of the mill generic shonen anime. Good choice to show off generic shonen action tropes.

... and then you showed us Game of Thrones, which is a big-budget, high quality HBO original series. That's... not an equal comparison. Unless the point of your post was to show "low quality" fighting compared to "high quality", but in that case, your labeling of "anime" is improperly used because it isn't about "anime" tropes, its about what's good and what's bad.

Needless to say, there are plenty of western fighting tropes that more or less fit the same bill as Naruto's. Flynning comes to mind, complete with the snarky commentary.

[SachikoMaeda]

Okay, kinda woke up a bit more and reread Aadora's post.
Missed this line.

And Nobles are more than that.

Agreed. But then again, we see our celebrity, we get starstruck. Most of the time. People go "AMAGAD NOWAI MUST LOOK GOOD" and generally flip all over the place. Still think a comparison to lesser political figures would be a smidge better.

Not like people should bend over backwards for our PC nobles. But there should still be an IC awareness of "this person has power in some form and may use it". Example: Leron's personal army.

[Kage]

I believe there should be some sort of standpoint where a character's -too- powerful. Or better yet, a guideline to having a powerful character. As in something in the system. You want a powerful character? write up an amazing profile and put it under the specials. Cause if you truly want that character to be strong, I'm sure you'd take the time to make it right? Not that I'm saying that people are untrustworthy and shouldn't be aloud to play a powerful character less they've been approved, but more to prove a point. If your character is an amazing gun smith who's so badass that he can shoot down an abomination without blinking at the shot, explain why he's like that. People aren't just born badass (Less your Superman), they have something that makes them so.

Hopefully I said that right, I'm not too sure if I did. If someone gets what I'm saying, but know's how to say it better, please do :/

[Sol]

Naruto is bargain-bin run of the mill generic shonen anime. Good choice to show off generic shonen action tropes.

... and then you showed us Game of Thrones, which is a big-budget, high quality HBO original series. That's... not an equal comparison. Unless the point of your post was to show "low quality" fighting compared to "high quality", but in that case, your labeling of "anime" is improperly used because it isn't about "anime" tropes, its about what's good and what's bad.

I see your point, but I don't believe he's talking about one way of handling combat and violence being good and another way as being bad. He's talking about people behaving, and handling/representing violence, as though they're in a shounen anime when they're in a setting that actually has much more in common with GoT (and yes, I know the gulf of difference between high/low fantasy, but still). Look at the struggle, the suspense, the drama of the GoT scene, and then look at how the Naruto fight is essentially people trying to out-flash and out-wit one another. Yeah.

This discussion is all about how people approach the medium of Warcraft. I know the shounen vs. realistic fighting thing isn't an entirely perfect comparison, but I think that the fighting half of the argument roughly boils down to this kind of fighting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch4rc5W4dKY[/youtube]

. . . being more in-tune with the game world, more preferable on this server, and more enjoyable to play out, than this kind of fighting:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHSIPYN45E[/youtube]

Not ripping on Tales of the Past, btw, it's a great machinima, but . . . yeah. Fighting is a little too DBZ. (Of course, my argument loses a little of its edge when you consider that the Wrathgate video I posted above is still full of lore figures, almost by default more powerful than any of our PCs, but just look at the difference in how combat is handled in either video.)

I'm not sure how the size of something's budget or audience correlates with the level of realism in its combat, either, Rob.

[Aadora]

Sure we have magic and very strong warriors. But people still can't jump a mile through the air swinging their swords at each other!

[Sol]

Sure we have magic and very strong warriors. But people still can't jump a mile through the air swinging their swords at each other!

Recalling a few examples I've seen, it's more likely than you'd think.

[Caravan]

Spoilered for violence, death, and things many people may/should be sensitive to.

Spoiler:

I'm guessing that this studio did not have the same budget as, say Game of Thrones, but they did manage to show how the body and wounds work. Most of the time, when you're cut...you're going to be down. Luckily, in WoW, we've got magic and health potions and all of that but... please make note of where arteries and veins and other nastybits are.

I have more to rant on stamina, how swordfighting is mostly about looking for an opening and less about hours-long slash-exchanges, but I believe many people have already addressed it or it is no longer important at this point.

[Zhaei]

To give a counter argument to this, imagine someone stepping in to the world. Hey, even the server. You can play Wardens, Fel Sworn, Tormentors, Mountain Kings.. you get the idea. It's hard -not- to be a badass, sometimes.

[Kage]

Perhaps the prestige system needs a reboot?

[SachikoMaeda]

Sure we have magic and very strong warriors. But people still can't jump a mile through the air swinging their swords at each other!

Time for one I'd probably lol at if I saw put into RP



"CLOUD AND SEPHIROTH CAN"


Just to note I'd probably smack someone if they tried doing this ICly. Reason being it is offensive to the Sephiroth fangirls if done incorrectly. Protip: it's always done incorrectly because only Sephiroth is capable of such things.

[Aadora]

Sephiroth fangirls? Cloud is where it's at!