Character Death

[Drak]

Though I'm fine with character deaths as long as it's done with proper reasoning and not some "lol I hate you I kill you" thing, but sometimes for some characters I'd prefer retirement. Like my most favourite character, which I doubt I'll make on CotH, had at a point wanted to just.. Give up fighting, he was done, finished, kaput, he wanted to retire.. But he's a Demon Hunter so he kept argueing with himself how he can't and then go meditate for a while.

Though I've only done one character rez in the pas, was actually funny Drakus' soul was somewhat drained and placed into an Elf's body and his memory wiped.. Heheh.. Anyway I do wonder what it'd be like if I rebuild his rep here on CotH so that people actually know him, he dies and gets rez'd. I'd be lying if I said I don't hope people'll be surprised/happy (doesn't everyone want at least one of their characters loved?)

[Reigen]

They have a reputation, everyone knows them by sight, and they are now a household name. That is why they need to die.

Not...really?

I mean...what's wrong with having a known character? Why does that mean you have to kill them off? It just seems to be a somewhat...forgive my wording...'silly' reason to have your character die. If someone is ICly and OOCly 'famous' then why not allow yourself to bask in that accomplishment, whether it be good or bad? It also seems a little forced to go "Well my character has accomplished everything. Time for them to die!" instead of "My character has done a lot, time to see what happens now!"

I also agree with the point of...why not give the character a happily ever after? X became a huge famous guy and did a lot and everyone knows who he is so X retires and lives a quiet life. It opens up the chance for less heroic RP and more chillax RP which some people do like. No reason for him to die when he really has no reason to die. Killing X off at that point would feel...pretty cheap and out there.

Eh, it's hard to put what I want to say in words...but I really don't agree that any character -has- to die.

[I do agree, however, that unlimited resurrections cheapen the consequences of your character facing death.]


Edit: I promise I'll try to make more sense after I get some sleep and wake up and have working brainmeats again.

[Drak]

Another reason retire is better than death is, well you might miss RPing with the character .. But then he's dead. It happened to me once. If he/she's retired, they can either have nice 'chill' RP or say "You know what, I'll give this thing one last try for old times' sake" and go on a lil' adventure.

[Dae]

I tried to roll a Warlock, but it just felt... icky to play her and the way I've set her up. I haven't played her in months and I'm honestly considering her suicide and rolling her brother. (whom I've fleshed out somewhat in making this character) It would be a first for me if I were to actively pursue a male character's story, but at least I'd have some direction to make me feel more grounded.
The only thing is, I really feel kind of hesitant to do that to anyone, even fictional. Making the character just go and off themselves like that. I mean, it totally makes sense, as I couldn't successfully get the bad stuff in her life to successfully make her join the darkside embrace all things fel and demonic, and she just wasn't really going anywhere I liked.
I suppose I should be a little less intense about this kind of thing and go for it. Good for the story and good for the RP.

* Dae goes off to brood intensely because Dae is srsface for realz IRL

[Sol]

I've never been particularly fond of having my characters resurrected, but at the same time I admit that I can hesitate or do a double take when it comes to actually having them die. This restart I've only had one character death so far, Mamun, and that was on account of a trust fight with character warnings. It was completely unexpected but me, Zarquon and Cara just went with it on the spot, and I felt great doing it. Granted, he probably would have been able to fight back a little harder, or at least escape to recover from his wounds, if the guy wasn't seventy, and a big theme in his character arc was knowing that death was soon approaching and trying to do that last bit of good in the world before he had to go. Suffice it to say, he died convinced he'd failed, and the whole scene was all the more poignant for his failure. I imagine it left a better taste in the mouth of every party involved than if he'd reared up at the last minute to go out in a blaze of glory. Killing off the character was one of the more entertaining experiences I've had on CotH this year.

I'm coming to realise that death in narrative fiction or RP is all about an IC loss, and most things surrounding the loss itself are just dressing. Character death shouldn't be an arbitrary or senseless thing; I don't think it should be lightly given to every alt somebody's bored of, but at the same time I don't think it needs to be made heroic and gratuitous. Not everyone can face death readily, stiff upper lip, staring down horrors, and not everyone gets to die in a dignified manner, but so long as you, as a writer, strive to make a death at least somewhat poignant and meaningful to the characters they're involved with, it's all good. I loathe it when death is treated with all the consequence and finality as in superhero comics, because as with most superhero deaths, it feels like a cheap trick or a stunt to get a boost of recognition.

I don't like resurrection on principle because it turns the lasting impact of character death from "THERE'S SO MUCH I NEVER GOT TO SAY TO YOU ;_;" to "o lol you scared me 4 a minute there m8". That said, I don't think it can't be done well, but I think killing a character off in your story and then bringing them back should involve clear, lasting change and consequence. Think Gandalf the Grey becoming Gandalf the White, and then compare/contrast the hypothetical scenario to Boromir catching up with the Fellowship a week after he died, dusting himself off and going 'Alright guys, what's the game plan?'

. . . On the flip side, I don't believe anyone should ever feel obliged to kill off their character, and least of all do I think that allowing somebody to kill your character should be seen as making some kind of concession to that person. Because you're not. If you're forced into a situation where death has to occur and you see the death as your loss and somebody else's gain, call shenanigans, because that approach is completely skewed.

[Aphetoros]

Think Gandalf the Grey becoming Gandalf the White

Medivhhhahdushaishd...
(He was never the same after he became the Oracle. ;-; )

[Wuvvums]

I always feel like there's a little something.. "off" about the death arguments. Usually they seem to say that we should be obliged to end a character eventually. So is it about how we should treat death, or how we should treat character retirement?

Either way I think it's up to the person. No one is going to know the character and his/her course better than the roleplayer in their feet. And I would like to give the benefit of the doubt and say that the rper knows what they're doing at least when making a character. Some of us have been making characters and stories, dropping them and making new ones, for years, maybe even since we were children. It's a natural process that's part of playing pretend. That's essentially what we're doing on coth. While it may make sense to discuss what we would do with our own characters, character development and retirement is situational and there's no right or wrong way to steer the character (even the ones who are the worst sues and stues have their own course to take).

[Hawk]

Personally, I'm not really opposed to resurrections all that much. Though if a player likes their character and doesn't really want to be using their death as a plot point or whatever then I don't think it should be encouraged. We're all here to enjoy ourselves after all. However, there are situations where the consequences do demand a death. Like an Orc running into Goldshire, or getting into a fight and being warned that the character will likely not be allowed to live.

But with said, what I am opposed to is when resurrections are taken very lightly. The character's back on their feet within the week and don't seem to have suffered any mental or physical sideaffects - more so in the case of being resurrected more than once, which seems to be common. Granted, I haven't seen much of this lately because I don't really get around as much as I used to on CotH, but I was a supporter of the "One resurrection per character" rule or whichever it was back in the day. My memory's a little fuzzy.

[JVNemesis]

I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent, 'cause this is what I thought of when I was browsing through the thread.

The more I read, and watch, and RP, and get attached to all the characters in books, movies, games, what have you, the more I realize that I'm not averse to a happy ending anymore.

I used to be "blargh I'm tired of happy endings it's always the same boring stuff bah humbug!" I'd roll my eyes whenever I saw the characters riding off into the sunset or something equally cheerful before the credits. But now, after seeing so many characters (not in RP) that I've grown to love go off and die, it's just getting depressing. You all know what it's like (well, maybe you don't) to have your favorite character killed off in a novel or movie.

Though, that's not really the point I'm trying to make.

Killing a character isn't always a good way to end their storyline. It's easy. It's pretty much a cop-out, IMO. For some characters, it's a good resolution to their arc (though I'm getting really tired of redemption=death lately), but for others, they could go way farther if you kept them around. I mean, okay, if you're bored of the character and decide to off them, that's your prerogative (though I'd honestly advise against it without some serious thought), but if you're doing it because "Well, I finished their arc, what more is there?" Then...don't.

Anecdote time.

I have a character that was my first creation upon joining the server. Funnily enough, she was basically a copypasta personality of a character I was having difficulty writing, which is something I do on occasion (stop writing the character into a plot and RP them if I'm having trouble with their personality/reactions). Needless to say, in two years of RPing her, she's changed quite a bit (ironically, the character she was designed to emulate is now dead), but she finally accomplished what her goal, had done everything she'd wanted to do as an individual (was very fatalistic). So I had to decide how to deal with her, and as I was planning her exit (which would have been suicide), I realized that I didn't want to let her go like that. It was too...final. Granted, it was true to her original goal at creation (accomplish X, Y, Z, then I can finally go off and blah blah), but it almost didn't seem fair. After all she'd been through, all the trials and hardships and friends she'd made along the way (and the "NOOOOOOOOOO"s I got when I brought up her suicide), I decided that she deserved, at least a chance at, a happy ending. So I left her around. And not only can I continue to RP her (which I enjoy doing), but she's actually happy for the first time in...a long while. I'm terribly mean to all of my characters. So...yeah.
I honestly lost my train of thought with that one.

/horn tootin'

But really. Death isn't always the answer. There's honestly nothing wrong with your character settling into a nice retirement. If you don't want to play them anymore, you don't have to arrange for their house to blow up or something.

I feel as though I'm echoing thoughts already in this thread, but I didn't look through it again this morning. Oh well.

However, random death by other players is something entirely different, and not really a topic I want to get in to. If you have a storyline going and you get murdered in the middle of it because of some bad rolls or something...I'd bring the character back, personally. Don't abandon yours and other's RP so easily. Build off the death and resurrection, if you can.

I'm not averse to resurrection. I am, however, averse to "oh okay, if you want to kill me that's coo', 'cause I'll be back in a week anyway lol" and then popping back up none the worse for wear. That irritates me. I've never had a character resurrected* (only one major one has been off'd, though), but I will, if I want to keep RPing that character. Simple as that.



...

Oh dear. I'm rambling again.
This is why my posting privileges should be restricted before a set amount of time/coffee has elapsed in the morning.


*But when I do, I will be rolling on the "Heroes of Horror" D&D book resurrection mishap table. /cackle

[SachikoMaeda]

There's just some characters that you want to see their turmoil and hard work to be finally paid off. I've never been the "happily ever after" type ending. Most of the time I felt it just wasn't deserved. In my own writings it's near impossible to find a true "happily ever after" ending. But sometimes there are characters you learn to love and you just want to see pull through.

If my own get cut short, then they get one chance at resurrection with extreme backlash. They're not going to pop out of bed and go "HEY GAIS IM FINE LOL LETS ADVENTURE". Guess I've seen too many medical shows for that. They'll be in a bed for an additional two weeks or so. Weakened muscles means that they have to learn to walk again. Forget fighting for at least three months. Heck, Aendron died some... I want to say roughly 5~6 months ago and only recently got over 80% of his backlash. All he has now are breathing issues and well hidden psychological problems. Doran has persistent nightmares and is absolutely mortified of human males in plate armor. He will never forget the encounter and will do whatever he can to better himself for it.

Though I prefer resurrections be done in a timely manner and the character comatose for the remainder of the one week of no play. There's a lot of decomposition that takes place in only one week. Aendron had a few hours to a day of death, Doran about three days. And Doran almost got raised as a ghoul. Good thing that didn't happen.

But I say "to each their own". If you want a story to continue, then great! Just don't use the resurrection system to have an immortal character.

[Kage]

I have.. Yet to kill a character. And to be honest, Krest (My main) wont die anytime soon. But there is a reason behind that. Rae (WHo many of you don't know) loves to RP, but doesn't feel comfortable to do so with many other people (Not anyone's fault, she just gets uncomfertable with new people.). Her character Arasinya, is married to Krest. Once he dies, her gateway to the server is cut off (In her eyes. She's told me multiple times, I kill Krest, she'll kill me o.o"). But hey, I agree, character's deaths are inevitable. Krest -will- die sooner or later. But until Rae get's comfortable, I can't kill him off. As for the others, kill em. Daichi's the only one I kinda don't want dead sense I have plans for him, but if a moment arises, he dies.

Anyway, good thing to mention Avon! Death is important to pretty much every storyline. No one dies, it's not as interesting, specially if this world was made for death (You know, war and all).

[Rigley]

There's just some characters that you want to see their turmoil and hard work to be finally paid off. I've never been the "happily ever after" type ending. Most of the time I felt it just wasn't deserved. In my own writings it's near impossible to find a true "happily ever after" ending. But sometimes there are characters you learn to love and you just want to see pull through.

This! :B

So oddly enough I'm pretty okay with resurrections-- bearing in mind that it doesn't become a revolving door, where a character dies multiple times only to be brought back in with few inhibitors.

(I will note that I supported the 'one rez per character' thing prior. In a way. I felt that it was a bit open for abuse, whereas a guild might really want someone dead, and pursue them until such happens. Digression!)

I actually like resurrections, because I see them as a way to try a drastically different spin of the character. In the past I think I've mentioned how this has been thought through on my part-- usually just concerning my main characters or those who get into battle. A lot of my guys have a bit of planning there, just in case death ever does occur with them. It's nothing I'd be quick to switch to-- I've told people multiple times that while I have plans for if Endling were to die and be rezzed, I wouldn't want to enact them just yet, after all.

I do feel that death would be a world-changing thing for the character though, and that's why I'm alright with bringing them back. Within reason. I think people have all the reasons not to want to throw themselves into such a situation though; we are in a noblebright setting after all, and some people enjoy that the heroes tend to live long lives.

It is also worth noting that, while some character death can feel fulfilling or acceptable (I once had a warlock who ignited himself in ale-fueled fel-fire and kamikaze'd on a group he was fighting :B), but not all the time. Sometimes it can come from a petty fight, or again can be an unfair circumstance-- you get on a guild's bad side, for instance. Some people don't want to end the story there. Some people want to continue on until they reach their own ending, and that's -fine-.

So all of it can be done well. Death or survival really depends on how you RP your character and their attitudes towards both, etc. etc.


EDIT: In response to all of the 'I remember killing X character', humorously enough I have the highest kill count on myself. I've got five characters of mine that have been killed off over the course of my events, and only one that died to other players. Does that mean I win? :B

[Aadora]

No Rigley, that means you need to be thrown in jail for character abuse!

But seriously... while death is something that would change a character, I don't think it's ever really necessary.

I did it once and won't do it again as an end to a character. If I don't want to play a character any more, I just don't. That's where their story ends and them become just another face in the crowd of NPCs. There are thousands of people that aren't characters. So why isn't the best option to just have them fade into that nothingness of unimportance?

While I said it's not always necessary, it can be the best option at times.

And if a character -does- die and come back, that could change them in one of two ways depending on how they see it. Either one they will see how quickly their life can end, and they will completely change in personality, or... the second option. They died, and have been brought. This could cause your averagely cocky character to go "I died and yet here I am!" And suddenly see them self as immortal or something. But either way... you don't come back from death like "Eh, no big deal." It's death...

[Ural]

I'm terrible with dealing with IC death. My troll got into a mess back when I first started and .. it was just ugly. After the first restart I brought her back including the IC death and resurrection, but meh, I wasn't feeling it. It was foreign to me and I simply wish to put it behind me.

All my characters have dwelt ICly on the possibility of dying within a week, and after doing such and gaining some ICly advice, I think the majority of my characters wouldn't want to come back. In retrospect there was no IC reason for my Troll to come back.

Hopefully when I meet the next death of one of my characters, I will have made some progress dealing with it. Thanks for the advice!

[Sersay]

Que short and sweet Sersay response: I cant say much on the subject, as i'v actually never come to the point of my characters dieing. Usually because I just stop playing, and get back to stuff later, whenever that is. Something I dont mind. I expect the current Sersay to die at some point, but it's more likely somewhere along the line, some shiny new MMO is just gonna distract me from CotH entirely.

But wanting death or not, communicate it if it involves someone else! Communication can make most everyone happy, and I know when situation comes up for me, i'd want to and be willing to talk through an outcome. I think I mentioned in my reintroduction that consent is my favorite rule on the server. Character death falls under that for me. Not everyone is gonna want a char to die, some want specific conditions met before a character dies. And of course maybe someone wants you to kill off their character, but -you- might not be comfortable doing do.

Well, maybe that wasint the shortest response after all, but what im saying is... Death or not, just communicate. If people are happy either way, well...great!