Languages, How to Make Them Work.

[Harmonic]

Introduction

Now, I've seen guides on CoTH that have to do with the actual languages, but they only touch on what those mean in game, and don't touch on certain tendencies and etiquette when keeping these things in mind. It's hard to keep track of "how to do" these things, because there is -no- real guideline provided by Blizz. They've made languages a barrier between factions to cut down the smack-talk between the factions, and even took away the ability for Forsaken to speak common because of this.

Here.

So, what is ol' Rensin getting at here? I think it's time for a little bit of a guide/discussion to try and discern the differences between what's OOC and IC, what we should be able to do with languages... and what's silly.

Acceptable languages

This portion touches on something that's been a series of debate between players and GM's almost for as long as I've played on CoTH, if not longer. The point of the matter here... "What can my character speak/understand? Is it unbelievable for me to be able to speak, say, Thalnassian as a human, if I provide reason? Or how about draconic or demonic?

This is tricky. Again, there's mechanics that say "No, you can't." Problem is that the idea of mechanics vs. what's doable, usually CoTH takes the standpoint "Mechanics are what you can do in game." However, with languages, they give you some cheating room that I've seen.

Although you cannot speak another races language, you CAN pick up snippets if you're trained, or if you are well versed and the other players agree to it... they can share with you what they stated in their language.

BUT. BUT BUT BUT. You and the -other person- have to agree to it. You cannot demand it from them, and if they say "no", leave it at that. You cannot say to them "BUT ITS IN MY PROFILE". This was a decision clarified in this thread, by Grakor. Basically, this.

Basically, the CWs apply in two situations: death, and some form of permanent maiming (cutting limbs, extreme scarring, etc.) You'll also want to be clear if you're intending on something involving sensitive subjects, like sexual situations, gore, torture, drugs, etc. Though, that stuff isn't part of the character warning process, it's just common courtesy.

You must have consent of the other person BEFORE hand, otherwise you may come off as trying to trick them. If they don't agree to it, well, it can't be helped.

As for non-standard languages, like Draconic or Demonic, it's not usually something the GM's let people do. Perhaps if you make mention of it in your profile, it MAY be acceptable... but keep in mind, you start chanting in the middle of town the way a Dragon or Demon would, you'll probably get smacked in the face with a shield and tossed in jail.

Dialects, Adding Your Own

Another topic of debate, although one that's never really hit the forums, is dialect. Anyone who plays with me, knows I've added my own dialect, that's rather "dwarven-esq" to my human, Rensin Redjaw. I bring this up, only because I can only cite my own personal experiences with this character, rather than bring up other people's instances. Rensin speaks what I'd imagine would be an amalgam of common that's not quite gutterspeak, but is rather sloppy common. I justify this in my own head because he was not rich growing up, and has had nothing but a difficult life, not making time to learn how to speak correctly.

I treat dialects like I would in real life. Dialects stem from many different factors... area you grew up in, how you were brought up, your attention to learning said language... all can be factors in a proper dialect.

A good example is... from real life. I grew up in Michigan. I learned there how to say words like "Pop" for soda, "you guys" when talking to a group of people, and said "Axe" instead of ask. Then, I moved to Kansas. Man, do they talk different here. "Coke" is any sort of soda under the sun. "Ya'll" is stated to a group of people, and they properly say "ask", which can make me the butt of jokes sometimes. However, they do some weird pronunciations here too. Crayons? They call 'em "Crawns". Every time that throws me off, because I think they are asking if my kids want Crowns... and then I'M dissapointed for them when they don't get an awesome crown at the restaurant.

So, back to RP stuff. What does this mean? It means that it -should- be that in WoW, depending on region and all the other factors, people most likely have different dialects. In the case of "Ask" vs. "Axe"... it's literally something my mouth is not able to do. Dialects can affect a person so much that they are physically unable to pronounce some words "correctly".

This has been something that's been debated between me and other people privately for years. I've brought these to their attention time and time again, and eventually I'm usually met with someone stubborn enough to just chalk it up to me pretending to be a dwarf.

Well, CoTH, here's what I think. If it's a reasonable dialect for you character to speak, try it out. Human slurring common almost akin to a dwarf? Don't seem illogical. Gnome? Sounds perfect. Draenei? Ehh, probably slurring it more in their OWN way, considering they are foreigners to the PLANET. Again, this is something that's hard to dictate, but you should try and use common sense.

Another thing is using words that are... "adventurous", which segways into my next topic.

Swearing

Swearing ICLY. ICLY. I want to clarify this, because other than in the adult channel, swearing isn't so permitted on CoTH unless it's IC.

Any-who, this is something else that I've seen debated many-o-time before... swearing ICly. I've seen people say "It's not something they did in those times" or, "This is something that proper people wouldn't do!", or, "It shows ignorance!".

Well, I call bullpoopy on all of those sentences. I think it's fargin' insane people dong give a pooping rat's patoot for swearing, 'cause I think it adds a lot of dog-mothering content to a post, especially if done rat-swilling creatively.

Of course, despite my lapse of silliness there, I am talking about ACTUAL swearing. "Well, Rensin, they speak a different language and those words wouldn't be present?" Oh? Then stop using English as your RP medium, because that's EXACTLY the same point you are making. Swear words wouldn't be present in their language? Neither would any word present in my post, or your posts... or anything from our language for that matter. The fact that we don't know the languages and cannot speak them is another reason why swear words, in my opinion, are acceptable.

People have cited that it may be a weak point to emphasize your sentences with a placed in eff-bomb, and I agree. My characters are not smart, and make weak points. "It shows ignorance". You're right. My characters can be damned stupid. "Proper people wouldn't do it!". Exactly. My characters are NOT proper.



Well, I think that's the point of that. Swear ICly if it fits. Not OOCly, or if it doesn't fit. Although, I've known millionaires to be stupidly improper at times too. Make it believable, but don't think it's impossible.







I'm going to elaborate on this further. Maybe. I was thinking of adding in a section on names and the like, but I think that might be a -bit- touchy, considering it's... hard to talk on. Perhaps we could discuss that though either here or a different topic...

Names. What's acceptable, what's not, and where's the line?

[Piroska]

I want to read this. I really do. However, you used horrible blue text for the headers and (to old people like me) it's really hard to distinguish it from the background color.

Otherwise, though, it seemed fairly interesting. It doesn't really answer any questions or provide guidelines. You more give your opinion on the matter than anything (though you did note this in your introduction!).


Edit: In retrospect, yeah, the color is bad. My eyes were just straining in an effort to read the text.

[Zarquon]

An interesting topic of discussion. Something that I learned recently was that in Scotland, the streets are known as 'Gates' and the gates are known as 'Bars'. Similarly, it is quite possible to have words that are thus used in the world of Azeroth as well, perhaps. On a more important note, however...

[McKnighter]

I want to read this. I really do. However, you used horrible blue text for the headers and (to old people like me) it's really hard to distinguish it from the background color.

Otherwise, though, it seemed fairly interesting. It doesn't really answer any questions or provide guidelines. You more give your opinion on the matter than anything (though you did note this in your introduction!).


Edit: In retrospect, yeah, the color is bad. My eyes were just straining in an effort to read the text.

I highlight bad colored texts. Solves the problem for me. :P

[Harmonic]

I figured opinions would be the better way to go about it. There's hardly any firm information on how things are done in WoW in regards to language other than plain and simple mechanics.

Edit: Changed the color to something more viewable too.

[Piroska]

I highlight bad colored texts. Solves the problem for me. :P

I do the same, but as someone who frequently designs sites and has an idea of things to help the end-user better utilize them it drives me absolutely bonkers. I'm generally against color choices in text anyway.

I figured opinions would be the better way to go about it. There's hardly any firm information on how things are done in WoW in regards to language other than plain and simple mechanics.

True, which is why your caveat at the beginning was much appreciated. When there is no definitive answer, people too often try to advocate their preferences of doing something as the "right" way and everything else has the unfortunate tendency to be labelled as "wrong." I appreciate that you've provided insights that may allow others to see how the same topics can be approached.

Edit: Changed the color to something more viewable too.

♥. I'd offer to bear your next child if your wifey hadn't already beaten me to the punch!

[Harmonic]

That's also why I wanted to open this for discussion, and hadn't touched on "Naming conventions" yet. I don't want to give something definitive at all in this topic, as it's up for much speculation anyhow, but hopefully... some firm answers could be given to these? The section about using certain languages was the easiest, because I was able to find Grak's post stating "This is how you handle this", and from there all I had to do was introduce it, and elaborate on a few other points to be made.

The rest of it, swearing and usage of dialects... well, that was harder. I had to go off of private experiences and how I've personally had to back up my reasons for using that in my RP. I intend for this to be a "guide" rather than a bible; this is an example of how certain things can be done with languages, but now how it should be done every single time.

[Xigo]

I just find common cuss words to take away half the fun of roleplaying in a fantasy setting. Why use... well, you know... instead of 'knave' or 'harlot' or 'cur'? Those are just so much more fun to use for me! Granted, I'll say 'feckin' and 'arse' with dwarves, but even then, I think that fits the race.

[Harmonic]

Because it's as likely to be part of the language as words like "Knave" or "harlot". People don't realize the history of "curse" words, and they go back so very far that it's as rooted in English as any other place. Certain races might be more... apt to say something a little more proper, but again that goes hand in hand with upbringing as well as other important factors.

It's more an opinion of personal taste, again. Our language is the only firm translation we have to "common", so it's fair for us to use those words to show a certain sort of expression with our writing. As a matter of a fact, the reason I even thought of this is the scene in Misery where the writer is defending his use of course language to Annie Wilkes, by citing that the situation dictated it... it involved children of the slum that talked that way frequently, and even during certain periods it -still- happened.

I could imagine a Knight character using more descriptive words than actual cursing, but that's due to the fact they have a wider vocabulary. Not all characters are like this, and some will use more "improper"/"weaker" words that show their emotions or point.

[Dae]

People have cited that it may be a weak point to emphasize your sentences with a placed in eff-bomb, and I agree. My characters are not smart, and make weak points. "It shows ignorance". You're right. My characters can be damned stupid. "Proper people wouldn't do it!". Exactly. My characters are NOT proper.

I am naturally inclined to follow this logic. Flora swears like a sailor because she's a nobody from Podunk, Lordaeron, then hung around with a bunch of very angry dead soldiers. If I see someone else's character cursing casually, I'm going to expect some similar uneducated and rough-and-tumble upbringing and lifestyles.

Honestly, it bothers me quite a bit when someone plays a character with a supposedly classy upbringing, but doesn't factor the ingrained sense of propriety such a life entails. (that matter's not just a matter of language, but its certainly a big part in our generally dialogue-driven experiences here) Of course, when someone plays a proper individual clearly attempting to be some kind of vagabond, I just eat it up.