The following warnings occurred:
Warning [2] Undefined variable $search_thread - Line: 60 - File: showthread.php(1617) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.27 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/showthread.php(1617) : eval()'d code 60 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1617 eval
Warning [2] Undefined variable $forumjump - Line: 89 - File: showthread.php(1617) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.27 (Linux)
File Line Function
/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/showthread.php(1617) : eval()'d code 89 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1617 eval




Allowed and Disallowed Character Concepts
#16
But that's the problem.. you either have the lists, and adhere to them, or you get people confused and they'll take that leash as far out as they can, then we get topics where people constantly ask what's acceptable and what's not. I mean, it seems like you guys want to have people be as intuitive to what the GM's see as acceptable WITHOUT the GM's having to state it. It may be common sense to everyone else, but really... it's very elusive. It's hard to see what people want from the prestige system without the guidelines, because even with a lack of them there's still that boundary of "what's acceptable", like with the discussion of the runemasters here.

I understand completely why you'd want to discourage this. There isn't much lore supporting it, there isn't much other than what we create to go on... but I'm arguing it's like that with ALL prestige classes under the current system. I mean, I know Grak you're saying it's not like that, but it's also hard not to prove otherwise with the classes people are creating. We have so many variant classes now, that almost every one is unique to that character.

I'm all for structure. I'd love to see a list of what's acceptable, and what's not. That'd quell any arguments as well as allow the players to have some confidence in getting prestige/variant profiles approved. The runemaster/instertclasshere things could be easily resolved... if it's not on the list, it's not on the list. With variants... I mean, why's it NOT on the list? We've got some other pretty ridiculous and loosely based class variants out there, and quite honestly... whether it fits current lore or not is almost a matter of opinion with how this has been currently structured.

Edit: Then, the question is... what's to stop a monk from using runes in the manner that was the original rune master class?
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


△△
△△△
△△△△

Reply
#17
(07-28-2012, 02:16 PM)Rensin Wrote: I mean, it seems like you guys want to have people be as intuitive to what the GM's see as acceptable WITHOUT the GM's having to state it.

No, we're asking for a possible way to state the information without having to resort to a list. Even if we DID resort to the list, we'd still have to check every profile on an individual basis because everyone makes their characters in a different way, so I am not sure I see how much of a difference it would make.

Quote:Edit: Then, the question is... what's to stop a monk from using runes in the manner that was the original rune master class?

Nothing, certainly. If someone wanted to make a monk that uses runes to augment himself, I'd have no issue with that, so long as it doesn't go into OP territory (we generally tell people using runes to draw ideas from the Inscriptionist profession.)

I suppose I was not clear in my first post. I don't have a problem with people using runes. Heck, I don't even necessarily have a problem with someone rolling a bare-knuckle fighter using runes. If I have a problem with anything, it's how the class ended up being interpreted, pulled almost entirely from the d20, and the constant use of the name.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
Reply
#18
That's the main problem I see here. Many class variants are based off of things that aren't in lore, and it's based off of opinion of -how- loose it is, rather than just plain looking at the single question:

"Is it supported/disproved by lore or is it not?"

If there is no lore supporting or disproving something, but we go ahead and follow one path or another anyways, isn't that creating a universe inside one that already exists? But I guess that's not the main topic.

If something is so off that it is actually bringing up complaints then I think -that- is the time something needs to be done about it. And from the original post, I don't think quantity of something like Runemasters really makes a difference.

If it's wrong for many people to do it it should be wrong for one to do it.

But on the subject of each one of those many people having their own version of it, it gets to the point it either needs to be thrown out, or be put onto a set version.
Spoiler:
_____________________________________
_____________$$$__$_$$$______________
____________$$__$$_____$_____________
___________$$$_$__$_____$____________
__________$$$$_____$$___$$$$$$_______
_________$$$$$______$$_$_____$$______
________$$$$$_______$$________$______
________$$$$$_______$_______$________
________$$$$$$_____$_______$_________
_________$$$$$$____$______$__________
__________$$$$$$$$_______$___________
__$$$_________$$$$$$$_$$_____________
$$$$$$$_________$$$__________________
_$$$$$$$_________$___________________
__$$$$$$_________$$__________________
___$$$___$_______$$__________________
___________$_____$___________________
_______$$$$_$___$____________________
_____$$$$$$__$_$$____________________
____$$$$$$$___$$_____________________
____$$$$$______$_____________________
____$$$________$_____________________
____$__________$_____________________
_____________$_$_____________________
______________$$_____________________
_______________$_____________________
Reply
#19
I see then, that's not so bad then. And what I was meaning by that wasn't as... jerk-ish as it came off. What I was meaning was that it's hard to see what's acceptable without there being some firm guideline. I know, you guys have to go through each profile anyways, but for a player it's still nice to know where the boundaries are because then we can meet the acceptable perimeters.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


△△
△△△
△△△△

Reply
#20
No, I think there was simply a break-down in communications. For the record, I've no real interest in destroying any of the already made runic characters already in existence. They're not really harming much.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
Reply
#21
Concerning Runemasters, the Inscription profession allows for various passive buffs, "packaged" spells, and alterations to existing abilities even for non-magical classes. Likewise, the Runemaster concept is remarkably similar to an Enhancement Shaman ingame. They use a natural magic to augment physical attacks and to grant themselves and allies elemental resistances, to heal themselves and others, to purge or redirect magic, can boost their speed and agility, can command lightning and fire, recall, and so forth.

Roleplay is a cooperative writing platform, as we use it, so keeping classes strictly balanced isn't of the same paramount importance it's given in game mechanics. Power ebbs and flows according to the whims of the authors and narrative convenience; the justification a character's abilities is meant simply to further express their nature. I do agree that some prestiges and variants are not needed, such as the "X but more" Arch-classes. That's largely because they aren't really a different class at all: merely more powerful versions of their base class.

The variant system has worked fine thus far, and been generally well received. I don't really think further revision is necessary at this point.
i am geko
i live heer
and my favorite food is crikkits
Reply
#22
I find Runemasters kind of Overpowered. I strongly dislike duelling them because you know for sure they are going to win and you'll lose interest. Some may make the Rune of Speed or something which just lets them run around (from experience). I wouldn't mind the scrapping of the class because again, I don't really like them. But we should introduce Monks now, because I like martial arts and I like RP'ing them. But those are just my two cents

-SunThas
ohǫnˀadaga:yǫh

gnome guy

Reply
#23
Well, you did say you have actually received complaints.

Quote:But we should introduce Monks now, because I like martial arts and I like RP'ing them. But those are just my two cents

Except don't people -become- monks from learning from the Pandarens? Wouldn't that be a little hard at the moment? Unless I am too scratchy on Pandaren lore.
Spoiler:
_____________________________________
_____________$$$__$_$$$______________
____________$$__$$_____$_____________
___________$$$_$__$_____$____________
__________$$$$_____$$___$$$$$$_______
_________$$$$$______$$_$_____$$______
________$$$$$_______$$________$______
________$$$$$_______$_______$________
________$$$$$$_____$_______$_________
_________$$$$$$____$______$__________
__________$$$$$$$$_______$___________
__$$$_________$$$$$$$_$$_____________
$$$$$$$_________$$$__________________
_$$$$$$$_________$___________________
__$$$$$$_________$$__________________
___$$$___$_______$$__________________
___________$_____$___________________
_______$$$$_$___$____________________
_____$$$$$$__$_$$____________________
____$$$$$$$___$$_____________________
____$$$$$______$_____________________
____$$$________$_____________________
____$__________$_____________________
_____________$_$_____________________
______________$$_____________________
_______________$_____________________
Reply
#24
Well, the quasi-magical stuff from MoP Monk is Pandaren-based but I think what SunThas is saying is just martial-arts based fighters. Fist-fighters, hand-to-hand experts. Doesn't necessarily have to have all that special 'chi' stuff.
Reply
#25
Yes, what Zenethen said. Kind of a martial arts class, because you don't really want your characters title of "Rogue" or something..
ohǫnˀadaga:yǫh

gnome guy

Reply
#26
Ah, I was just going on the fact you specifically said "monk". I don't think that needs to be "introduced" because... can't we just say that is the fighting style our character uses?
Spoiler:
_____________________________________
_____________$$$__$_$$$______________
____________$$__$$_____$_____________
___________$$$_$__$_____$____________
__________$$$$_____$$___$$$$$$_______
_________$$$$$______$$_$_____$$______
________$$$$$_______$$________$______
________$$$$$_______$_______$________
________$$$$$$_____$_______$_________
_________$$$$$$____$______$__________
__________$$$$$$$$_______$___________
__$$$_________$$$$$$$_$$_____________
$$$$$$$_________$$$__________________
_$$$$$$$_________$___________________
__$$$$$$_________$$__________________
___$$$___$_______$$__________________
___________$_____$___________________
_______$$$$_$___$____________________
_____$$$$$$__$_$$____________________
____$$$$$$$___$$_____________________
____$$$$$______$_____________________
____$$$________$_____________________
____$__________$_____________________
_____________$_$_____________________
______________$$_____________________
_______________$_____________________
Reply
#27
(07-28-2012, 02:41 PM)SunThas Wrote: I find Runemasters kind of Overpowered. I strongly dislike duelling them because you know for sure they are going to win and you'll lose interest. Some may make the Rune of Speed or something which just lets them run around (from experience). I wouldn't mind the scrapping of the class because again, I don't really like them. But we should introduce Monks now, because I like martial arts and I like RP'ing them. But those are just my two cents

-SunThas


If I might take a moment to counter this...?

Set against certain things every class and/or variant is OP. I would suggest pondering on whatever you might play, thinking deeper about their abilities so that you can better understand how a runemaster might work, and how to better counter them. Rather than trying to bring something else down, or limit it.

And, even if you can't figure out a way to make the two equal, losing can progress a story greatly. It can be a great anchor for character development.
[Image: tumblr_nfm4t0FZcT1rtcd58o1_r1_500.gif]
Reply
#28
The Chi stuff is part of the actual class though, now.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


△△
△△△
△△△△

Reply
#29
(07-28-2012, 02:41 PM)SunThas Wrote: I find Runemasters kind of Overpowered. I strongly dislike duelling them because you know for sure they are going to win and you'll lose interest. Some may make the Rune of Speed or something which just lets them run around (from experience).


There's really no such thing as an overpowered class in roleplay, given that power is just a matter of rolls or writing. And, as mentioned previously, quite literally everything a Runemaster does can be emulated almost exactly by a Shaman or Druid - or to a lesser extent, a Paladin, Warrior, or Death Knight with the appropriate professions.
i am geko
i live heer
and my favorite food is crikkits
Reply
#30
Yeah. Saying your character is a monk and fights with chi, is different from saying they have a fighing style that represents martial arts. I don't think Monks and chi are RPable right now, but I don't see why a hand to hand or staff martial art styled combat would be out of the question.

Big difference between something like interpreting how a Runemaster works and basing your character's combat style off of something not only from outside WoW, but from something that is in WoW lore just... not in the current timeline.
Spoiler:
_____________________________________
_____________$$$__$_$$$______________
____________$$__$$_____$_____________
___________$$$_$__$_____$____________
__________$$$$_____$$___$$$$$$_______
_________$$$$$______$$_$_____$$______
________$$$$$_______$$________$______
________$$$$$_______$_______$________
________$$$$$$_____$_______$_________
_________$$$$$$____$______$__________
__________$$$$$$$$_______$___________
__$$$_________$$$$$$$_$$_____________
$$$$$$$_________$$$__________________
_$$$$$$$_________$___________________
__$$$$$$_________$$__________________
___$$$___$_______$$__________________
___________$_____$___________________
_______$$$$_$___$____________________
_____$$$$$$__$_$$____________________
____$$$$$$$___$$_____________________
____$$$$$______$_____________________
____$$$________$_____________________
____$__________$_____________________
_____________$_$_____________________
______________$$_____________________
_______________$_____________________
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)