Realism.

[c0rzilla]

All I'll say is, for every character of mine I try to start out as normal as possible. It makes it all the more fun when they develop epically.

[Reigen]

Spiky get a blog.

I use realism in almost everything I do, beyond magic that is. It's really hard for me to try to attempt magic in a realistic way considering...magic doesn't exist. I did put limitations on magic however. My mage could cast -two- portals a day, three would leave her existed and make her useless for the rest of the day. Teleportation could be pulled off a bit more, four or so times. Extensive spell use would cause her energy to deplete, heck, in one event I even mana-tapped someone to keep going on. To me, it's fun putting limits on things, even magic.

As for travel? "Found a mage to portal me."

My main is now a death knight that doesn't experience pain unless under extreme situations. I do my best to try to apply realism to what I think an undead would be. Her body doesn't function. She's able to move around, but she's not going to go around crying, needing to eat or anything like that. When in a fight, I read emotes carefully because where an undead gets hit is very important, most of all in trust fights. For an example...

Yesterday when fighting Itheros, Reigen and him would hit areas like the chest. Minor force didn't really do anything. However, once her ribs were smashed, she could no longer properly move her upper body and had to fold. While an attack like that might have killed someone who was living, it heavily disabled her to the point of uselessness. Just because she is undead doesn't mean she can just shrug off part of her body being disabled. While she may shrug the broken bones pain-wise, she's not going to be able to use a snapped arm and use a two-handed weapon well at all.

I think adding realism makes things a lot of fun myself. Gives characters more depth when there are things they just can't logically do.

[Krent]

I admit fully that I shirk realism in favor of the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool). I do like my fights to be over-the-top and ridiculous and full of stuff that isn't possible at all. That's what makes the game fun, for me.

But, I know what you're getting at, Spiky. I just gotta fess up that I don't always do it. Krent-style is one that drinks in absurdity and ridiculousness.

I dunno how to explain it, really. I think maybe I should shut up. Yeah.

[Rigley]

As someone who has written up and made RP in a good variety of settings (text RP, as some have heard me talk on before), my personal tendency is that realism best as a primary rule to run by.

Just run with me with this example for a moment, even if its indulgent in my own stuff.

As an example, one of my favorite settings for text RP now is actually one which is 'magic deficient', in a way; wherein magic is highly subdued and only practiced by certain people, and even they have a poor grasp on it. It's the sort of thing where a mage might know how to throw a fireball at best, and even that is something they've only mastered with much practice. The rest of the world is very much down to earth-- wars are fought by soldiers with armor and swords, since most people don't know enough about magic to trust it.

The reason I like this so much, I believe, is that it makes the fantastic elements all the more... fantastic. It's a lot more stunning ICly for a character to see grand displays of magic or other paranormal work, and it makes events which happen in the RP more interesting since they stand out so well.


In comparison some settings I've made in the past were in the total opposite direction, wherein the esoteric and magical was the complete norm; those never interested me quite as much, since there's just less sense of wonder and the like to having people explore a place which casually shrugs off such anomalies.

Basically the unrealistic is a good place to visit, but not a place which is good to remain in constantly.


,,,So, tying this in to WoW. In and of itself the setting is pretty indulgent in unrealistic stuff, yeah; it's nowhere near the two extremes of which I was comparing back there, I guess instead somewhat in the middle. This isn't so much me saying 'you must do this it is in the rules rahrahrahrahGM', but rather my own kind of recommendation and favorite draw. I tend to like more realistic characters, because portraying them in esoteric situations (of which most events tend to be, it seems) is only that much more fun and varied. I don't find it very interesting when a character is disaffected to the world around him, but rather when they're fascinated, or terrified, or so forth.

...Really, at this point I'm not sure I'm talking on the -exact- same line of thinking, but hey. I already wrote this entire post, so yeah. Just my random thoughts on the idea of realism and RP. And stuff.

...

Yep.

[CappnRob]

Honestly, WoW and by proxy Warcraft as a whole has always ran that middle ground between grimsrs Game of Thrones flavor realism and completely off the wall over the top epic-action. Even in the game, go to any zone appropriate for your level, in questing gear (Blues and Greens, because raid gear was meant... for raids, duh), and you'll find that fighting even more than 3 mobs at any time is difficult (give or take depending on your class). This was especially true in Vanilla, but it has slowly lessened as to make WoW more casual friendly, but the overall idea still stands: a fresh 80 in Icecrown with basic gear does no better when outmatched than a level 40 in Alterac Valley with basic gear.

I always considered the Wrathgate cinematic to be the gold standard for how "realistic" fighting should be in WoW:



You got giant golden eagle shoulders. You got the giant goddamn PvP swords. You got Bolvar and Draenosh sassing each other in combat. But you also have very basic, simple fighting involving sword and board, nothing too crazy. Draenosh kills 3 Vykrul in one blow, but he does so with a very simple giant-ass axe swing and not some ridonk super attack. It is reasonably over the top without being -grating-.

I also like the Warcraft 3 opening as well.



The fight between the human and the orc is simple, but not terribly realistic (lol all those blows they take is insane).

[Piken]

I admit fully that I shirk realism in favor of the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool). I do like my fights to be over-the-top and ridiculous and full of stuff that isn't possible at all. That's what makes the game fun, for me.

But, I know what you're getting at, Spiky. I just gotta fess up that I don't always do it. Krent-style is one that drinks in absurdity and ridiculousness.

I dunno how to explain it, really. I think maybe I should shut up. Yeah.

Okay, I'll admit I'm a real sucker for uber awesome fighting. But there's only really a couple of people I'll do that with(see quoted). But also, while having the Rule of Cool kinda fight, there's still that realistic "fuuuh that hurt" after the dust settles. Especially when you make your friend start spitting up blood due to malnutrition and various other health problems all because you had to be a doosh.. Rofupi.(<3)

[Scow2]

I finally bothered to watch that video linked earlier... The part that bothered me was the jetpacking/airborne combat, and the inexplicable teleportation. Stupid anime tropes. A really cool fight involves at least one party (in a duel) staying well-grounded, with lots of damage being dished out, but mitigated by the other's armor, toughness, and willpower. Half an hour of jumpy-dodgy conflict to be decided by a single decisive blow comes off as lame to me - if it's a single-stroke battle, it better be one of the first three strokes. Otherwise, a lot more impacts and damage should be exchanged.

[flammos200]

Realism, as I use it, refers to consistence with the game's universe.

Can X happen in Warcraft? Why? Why not? If it can, then it's realistic.

We get plenty of examples of how people move in plate in Warcraft from anything from cinematics to written official stories, and of the feats they tend to achieve.

We know that IRL, a person who's been trained well enough can swim, run and jump in full plate. Heck, full plate weighs -half- what current-day kevlar-based Riot Gear does. I strongly dislike the assumption that just because X or Y is wearing heavy armor they can't move in it. They shouldn't be doing any unrealistic movements, sure - but those shouldn't be done -without- armor either!

Yes, a Night Elf that's trained for thousands of years in heavy armor will likely be able to backflip in it, sure. Yes, they'll swim, run and climb in it like it's a second skin. But consider the sheer amount of time they've had to practice all that. And that's not to say they won't tire.

Fatigue is something really, really important to take into account, for both casters and melee people.

A Brewmaster will probably spew fire at their foes. So, what? A person can drink a potion/eat a meal that allows them to electrocute people. The world is filled with gizmos and gadgets that're far beyond current human technology. But in the end, this blend of sword, sorcery and technology is what Warcraft is, and truth be told, it's one of the things that makes the universe unique. Some things realistic in it are unrealistic to real life. For instance, having priests to heal the wounded on the battlefield. Or swords that're aflame. Or people shadowstepping around. Or a warrior spinning around wildly and somehow cutting every enemy around them in a bladestorm.

Sure, skimpy armor will -not- protect you and is better suited for the bedroom than for the battlefield. But if you're wearing it in a fight, expect to be hurt. Etc.

I take as unrealistic anything that breaks generally accepted lore and common sense.

And in ending, I'll just leave this here(I suggest the Axes, Chainmail, Shieldwalls, Katana and Leather Armor bits as the most useful):
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCA860ECD7F894424

[Harmonic]

Rensin's opinion tiem!

Prepare for old fartedness, a heavy does of experience, some learnin', and even heavier doses of a viewpoint people don't normally see.


First and foremost, I cannot remember WHICH writer said this, but it was in regards to sci-fi, and hell, it could have even be here that I read this... but in regards to science fiction, you have to work on something that's SOLIDLY BASED around realism before you start to throw in the fiction. Reason being, once you get something relatable, something others can easily buy, THEN you can start to throw in wads of magical wrongness and fantastical crap. You have to have and understanding of the real to get the ethereal.

Now, that being said, I can go into my own personal play-style. It's downright freakin' immersion breaking at times, silly, or fantastical. However, I try to sell it as the person being able to do these things because they are -based- on the facts of life.

I'll use Rensin. Here's a guy who drinks, fights, and often loses. Back on older-style-second-reboot CoTH, he was an ex-slave that gained a reputation SOLELY based on the fact that he would do outrageous things without provocation. He'd fight, drink, and screw anything he laid his eyes on, all with wreckless abandon for his own life, and limb. This meant he gained scars, mental and physical. He lewdness led to consequences beyond a slap in the face... but to drippy man-parts because of how unclean he had become.

Eventually he died in the arena he o-so-loved. He became a victim of his own blind desire.

Third round 'Sin was much the same. A drunk hung up on the idea of love, confused by his own sexuality and also by his own demons that were brought on by a depressing childhood. While he was a fight-y bastard, his self loathing and pity for himself led to his destruction---the drink killed him, but it was a willing death.

Xavier is my first attempt at crazy. I know full well he comes off as the Mad Hatter at a party, but I'm also -very- fresh with the angle I'm trying to go with him, eventually I want to get him to a point where he plays the part of the merc--- an individual with an ambiguous personality that's able to take the -hard- jobs, the downright despicable jobs because at this time and point he's truely given up on even trying to fit in with society, and therefor would love nothing more than to watch it burn from the inside, all the while wearing a catgirl outfit and giggling madly because he freaking can.






What's realistic to some is not realistic to me. What's realistic to me can be odd to others. Sometimes I don't make these people to BE realistic, but to be an allegory for how absurd life is. Rensin was absurd. X is absurd. Killing black dragons is absurd. SOMETIMES COTH NEEDS ABSURD.

Sometimes it needs a dose of the real. It's unfair for people to say it needs more of one than the other, because this is something that -never- can have a definitive answer. Why? This will never be real life.


Sidenote, I've never ridden a horse or wielded a sword. Most times it's a best guess for me to think of how an alcoholic thinks.

Edit: Meaning, I don't -know- how these things work, so I go with my gut and best judgement. It may not be real because of... whatever, but there you have it.

[Scow2]

Sure, skimpy armor will -not- protect you and is better suited for the bedroom than for the battlefield. But if you're wearing it in a fight, expect to be hurt. Etc.

I'm going to contend this point, given the prevalence of skimpy armors in Azeroth. We don't have to know why it works.

Now, that being said, I can go into my own personal play-style. It's downright freakin' immersion breaking at times, silly, or fantastical.

You say this like it's assumed to be a bad thing. If it is, then I think I found the problem with RP on CotH.



Here's the rub about almost ALL fantasy worlds - Physics and biology are abstract. Quantum uncertianty applies on a much higher level. Often, I see people use "REALISM" as an excuse to show off encyclopedic knowledge (often flawed), and turn IC fights into a case of "Who has a larger knowledge of cellular biology, kinematics, anatomy, nervous system function, brain chemistry, historical combat, and other higher sciences that may or may not apply to Azeroth.

[Xigo]

... I just generally enjoy knowing anatomy and the way the human body works, so that it makes what my characters do seem more plausible. When I know what is baseline 'normal', I can explain why my character can do something fantastic. I think it's poor form when someone completely disregards such things with no explanation.

Concerning skimpy armor. Do I enjoy it aesthetically? Yeah. Do I think it's practical? No. No, not remotely. Then again, most armor in WoW is not practical.

I just operate under the presumption that those willing to wear impractical armor are capable of making up for the deficit in protection with skill. Hence why your average footman wears rather practical (but bland) armor, while a human general wears those fancy pants impractical eagle shoulderplates. Those with skill can show off a bit.

If you want an example from another setting. There's no way The Hound from A Song of Ice and Fire's armor is practical. But he's still one of the deadliest warriors in Westeros.

[BountyHunter]

I like to assume that the world of Azeroth is bound by the normal physical laws of our own world up until the point that magic is put into the equation. If it doesn't have any magic or special mcguffin in it, it's the same as real life.

[Harmonic]

Now, that being said, I can go into my own personal play-style. It's downright freakin' immersion breaking at times, silly, or fantastical.

You say this like it's assumed to be a bad thing. If it is, then I think I found the problem with RP on CotH.

It's exactly that. Sure, it's great to know your anatomy and all that jazz as Xigo said, and there's good points brought up about armor, but for the same token there's just a lot that's unexplained.

Bleach sized swords, physiology of unrealistic creatures, as people have already brough up; magic, and the idea of a Gnome fighting a Tauren.

Thing is, the last one I find super unrealistic. The Tauren would have the extreme advantage, and in -most- cases, the little guy wouldn't be able to Bilbo Baggins Vs. Cave troll the situation, he'd be smashed in a wee little mess that would probably make the Tauren cry.


I get the push for realism, but this isn't non-fiction, which is the point I was making. A good amount of "fudgin' it" can be fun, if we'd all let go of our O.C.D. about perfecting roleplay and actually enjoy it. We keep within the set boundaries of the game, and we discuss stuff with GM's before it gets approved in regards to profiles, I don't see why we always need a heavy dose of realism with everything we do.






The line? Anime is over the top, and Game of Thrones is set in -real- settings. Neither apply to what we're talking here and I'm very sick of the comparison. WoW is WoW, not D&D, not Tolkein, not.. anything other than WoW.






Read this as if I was a bunny or going "Mff mff mff" or a kitty meowing sweetly, not an old man chewing cabbage and spewing bits in your face. I don't mean any of this meanly.

Smiley face is for setting my tone.

[Scow2]

I like to assume that the world of Azeroth is bound by the normal physical laws of our own world up until the point that magic is put into the equation. If it doesn't have any magic or special mcguffin in it, it's the same as real life.

While this looks like a good practice in paper, it tends to forget that 'magic' is put into the equation at ALL points. Yeah, there are a lot of magics that are obvious... but a person's living spirit is also a thing of a different kind of 'magic', allowing people to do things that mere muscle mechanics, fluid dynamics in the circulatory system, signals through the nervous system, cellular structure, and brain chemistry can't explain.


With all that said, it's fun applying known concepts to explain how things are different. But in those cases, it should be an enabling process, not disabling one.

[Kage]

WoW is WoW, not D&D, not Tolkein, not.. anything other than WoW.

Someone else who gets that! Finally!

I get it. Realism is important. But this is a world were massive blades do exist, and people do use them. Take a look at Thunderfury here. That is -huge-. And it's one handed, and far from the only one like it. I know the feeling of 'Blizzard your so nub, why make these huge weapons that people in real life couldn't possibly carry?' But keep in mind, this isn't real life. It wouldn't be as interesting if it was. Cause then there'd be no magic, only humans, and Dragons would be artwork at best.

Use -wow- realism. Not Earth. We all know if you jump a huge distance, you get hurt, so gravity still works, so don't go jumping four stories and expect to walk away. Can a gnome fight a tauren? Yes. Do tauren have the advantage? Not at all. Such a small target, it would be hard to hit. (And personally I imagine Gnomes like yoda when they fight. Though I have yet to see someone do that..) Wow is steampunk too, don't be afraid to use that either.

Don't limit wow because it goes against your view of realism. It's wow, not earth.