Realism.

[Spiky]

Since when has realism ever come into Azeroth?

Right. I've heard this countless times before as a means for people to end / justify things that are, quite frankly, far fetched, yes, even for WoW.

So, here's the deal whenever I hear that:

Every fantasy world you've ever seen, read about, played in, dreamt up? They all have realism. Why? Because realism, is a thing of the human brain, we -will- find something to anchor on and say "Hey, that's normal." Every world has realism that is, well, realistic in that setting.

But Spiky, what does that even mean?

It means, that you can't jump four stories in WoW, you can't get your arm cut off and somehow not pass out from blood loss eventually, it means, that realism is infact a very big part of Azeroth.

In order for all the unrealistic to be, just that, unrealistic, there -has- to be realism present for the unrealistic to be special and awe-inspiring / frightening. It's not realistic for people to fly on their own, nor is it realistic for people to turn into the scourge, it's unrealistic that a corpse should walk, THUS why people freak out when they first saw the scourge and didn't just go "Oh look, Frank is back from the dead, hey Frank! Azeroth is a silly place, no? Hahaha"

The realistic laws of physics and other "rules" of realism from our world still apply here, and I'm tired of people who deny that fact as a means to end an arguement or justify what they're doing. Because realism is VERY real in Azeroth, as it is anywhere.

"Do you know what magical realism is? Do you know what it relies on? It relies on -fact- so that the -unfact- gets accepted by the brain."

- Dear friend of mine.



Now, I'm aware that this post is probably chaotic and poorly paced with tons of spelling errors, my bad, but hey, I just wanted to mention this.

But! More importantly, this thread, is in NO WAY bashing anyone over the head, notice I did not call names in any of this? That is because I am not writing this to spite anyone, harm anyone or otherwise get into a fight with anyone, have no quarrel with anyone of you, and thus, I'd appreciate it if you did not read this post with contempt.

NB: I'm aware this might become a discussion upon writing this. I'll put this here: If this becomes a flaming thread, I'm locking it. This is a Discussion thread.

[mimloopen]

From what I gather, most references to realism are of people wearing plate and doing great physical feats, or weapon types and their application. Of course there is some semblance of physics and realism, but in a world where shoulder pads can be a foot tall and two feet wide -some- realism, such as mobility in plate or reflexes, can be waived.

... But people definately shouldn't jump off four story buildings like it was nothing.

[Zhaei]

"Oh look, Frank is back from the dead, hey Frank! Azeroth is a silly place, no? Hahaha"

Brilliant.

But yes, I always have and always will agree with this sentiment. Those who take note of the boundaries of both lore and realism and still create an interesting character are worthy of applause.

[Kage]

I think the real question of realism is how -close- are we to our own world. Cut off your arm and you pass out, regardless of where you are. But the question is does a cut to your chest do the same? If you can't jump four feet, how high can you jump? Can you jump at all in the heavy armor (Though I believe that topic had reached a compromise. Armor weighs just as much as the bags of food/ammunition/what ever else marines carry, and yes, they can jump/climb) You say 'keep it realistic' but we have magic, and that's what some people are trying to get at. Many don't know where the line between Earth and Azeroth is.

So I'll ask the question, where is the line?

-Quick edit-

I'm not saying we should be able to jump four feet or even two, but there are limits on fantasy, so whats the limits on realism? I personally agree with this topic, but I know -a lot- of people who would ask the same as I did.

[Spiky]

The design of armour is, in most, if not all cases, because WoW is, first and foremost, a game. The armour was designed to look good / appealing to the people who raid, making them desire that awesome armour to look special and attain bragging rights or other such things. WoW wasn't designed with roleplayers in mind, sad but true. We have RP servers on retail, but still, the game itself was not developped around RP.

EDIT:

So I'll ask the question, where is the line?

That's the thing. Either we hope the players can reach the answer themselves, or we step in and tell them no as part of our job. It's a difficult topic that depends a lot on the individual and their grasp of sense / realism. Doing something simply because you can / think you can for the sake of awesome? Not adviced all the time.

[Xigo]

... My rule of thumb is just 'don't start doing this', and try to take into account what your character is wearing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBBVPSsFCUc[/youtube]

[Holynexus]

On a related note, not only I am getting tired of "Who said WoW was realistic" because it allows things that would never exist within the WoW universe, but I'm also getting really tired of "Stop trying to explain that, WoW isn't meant to be realistic". Whenever you try to explain something, may it just be speculation, you have to find people complaining because it's pointless, and because WoW isn't logic so why even bothering?

I'd love if people would just stop cutting in others' discussions, especially those dealing with, well, WoW realism. I think that there is a line that needs to be drawn between what can and can't be done, and it's not with the "don't explain that. it's magic. it's WoW." attitude and the irony-tainted "WoW doesn't need to be realistic" that we're going to be able to further our roleplay and our understanding of the setting.

[Kage]

.. That video never gets old *Snicker*

But what I'm trying to say is what are the limits. I get it, your character's wearing 60 pounds of armor, they wont be free running anytime soon. But they should certainly be able to vault over fences, climb walls two feet taller then them, because, as I said before, marines do it all the time. I get the fact that it is indeed hard to say what's unrealistic without seeing it, but tossing broad terms of don't jump four feet in the air bring up the thought "Well, he only jumped three feet 11 inches."

And on another note, I've done that myself. Course it wasn't about jumping and such, more on using Earth terms to describe stuff in Azeroth (Ninja, samurai, etc) Everyone has a side, and I don't think people should be bashed for going against something. Perhaps ask why they think WoW is unrealistic. Listen to what they say, for all you know they could indeed be right.

[Spiky]

Listen to what they say, for all you know they could indeed be right.

That's exactly one of the points of this thread. People don't think about a reason to what they're doing. They "hide" behind the "Realism doesn't exist in WoW" and leave it at that, and then, when their actions / ideas are questioned, they say we are prohibiting them, when all we're doing is trying to help them find a logical and semi-realistic WoW way for it to be reality. People deal in ultimatums. If they can't have exactly what they had in mind, they say we prohibit them, instead of forming their idea around the new suggestions or rules we present to it.

Also I didn't question people jumping four feet, but four stories, as in, building tall. Was more of a comical resemblance to lighten the thread. However, yes. Wearing plate, or most other armour 24/7 will never, ever, be good for your body, ever.

And hey, I love it when people take ideas from our own world and try to form them into something that'd fit Azeroth, as long as they're willing to work with us if we question it.

[Psychyn]

Realism, it's a broad word. It affects everything, but in my case there's no set stance on it. I tinker with the limits, and tend to take fun above realism if realism is being a mood killer. Am I saying realism tends to do that? No not really, but when it does do that I tend to throw realism out of the window rather fast as my eyes are focussed on fun and fantasy. (Though, that comes over as too strong I suppose. I don't magically gain wings and start flying or anything.) Do I recommend that stance? No not really. Just do what you enjoy the most and see how others respond to it. Then go from there.

Travelling? No realism in my toons at all. They are in Shattrah one day, Stormwind a few hours later, to warp back to Tirisfal if there's a reason to be there. While I do give them a reason to be there, to come off as realistic.. There's no reason for how they travelled there in such a short time.

Armours? I do try to stick to the non-glowing more realistic versions as I personally do not like the glow. Doesn't really matter to me if others don't feel the same way as it's just a preference of mine. Seeing as I tend to roll fight more then trust, the durability of said armour depends on the rolls more then the realistic protectiveness behind it.

Running through a desert in plate armour? I've done it, probably more then once before I read a few posts and started thinking about it more. Now I do try to pick out sets that match the region more, even if my characters do not own the coin to acquire a brand new outfit like that. So it's yet again a mix up. Realistic with the set, unrealistic with the cash.

All in all, I mix up realism with fantasy. I think I got a decent grasp on it as I've never been told otherwise but I'm not really worried by things that mess up the realism. All I can say is; "Go with your gut feeling. If it feels plausible, just do it and see what happens." I'm not saying we should throw realism out the window, but at the same time, don't let realism limit the RP and possible fun of yourself and others.

GM's decide yes or no in the end if it comes to that. But I've never had that happen to me.

[Kage]

Oohh, four -stories- Still say we shouldn't be jumping four feet, even if they do have a monk do that in the Pandaren quest chain.

And I'd love to see people bring up their issues with realism with something to back it. Personally I agree with using realism, but on this topic, I'm fine with listening.

[CappnRob]

Some things are worth handling delicately with realistic sensible approaches.

And some things aren't. WoW is a world where giant swords and flaming skull shoulderpads are plausible, and not just by lore characters (A certain Stormwind guard NPC happens to wield the infamous Alliance Buster Sword). It's also a world where Outland is a thing that exists.

However, it is not a place for THIS:



(I don't care how well made Tales of the Past is, you do not go DBZ with Ashbringer in Judgement armor.)

[Piken]

Well.. I can't really say much(what a surprise?) except that I'm usually in -heavy- opposition of the saying used in the OP. I have this annoying tendency to try too hard to make things more realistic because it's my personal preference to be able to explain things. Even magic, I try to add a scientific slant to it because I find it fun(even though I'm terrible with science).

I try to make things as realistic as they can be(all things considered) and at least have an explanation of why things happen the way they do with my characters. Is it entirely realistic for the walking dead to be talking and acting like they're not.. dead? Most likely, no. Definitely not realistic to have someone suddenly become shrouded in shadow or shoot fireballs from their hands, unless they had some contraption to do so(character idea~).

I will say though, that I tend to get a little offended when people will butt into conversations and essentially shut down the discussion by saying "It's not real anyway, guys~". No, it's not, but I get enjoyment out of making it as close to it as possible.

I.. probably rambled on about nonsense there. Point is, if there's no 'realism' and everyone was able to do whatever they wanted with everything, well that wouldn't be very structured. It'd be chaotic and unreasonable for different parties, because everyone would be interpreting their sense of 'unrealism' in different ways. Then again, the same exact thing is happening now, I suppose.. xD

Whatevz. Opinion and preference: I like realism. I like things being explained and having some type of reason to them instead of 'it's magic'. Makes me feel immersed more and is just more enjoyable for me. I try to stick to the 'to each their own' thing, but I'll admit that it will still bother me when someone tries to get out of explaining something simply because 'it's fantasy'.

[Scow2]

The design of armour is, in most, if not all cases, because WoW is, first and foremost, a game. The armour was designed to look good / appealing to the people who raid, making them desire that awesome armour to look special and attain bragging rights or other such things. WoW wasn't designed with roleplayers in mind, sad but true. We have RP servers on retail, but still, the game itself was not developped around RP.

I think this is kinda wrongheaded thinking. Warcraft is a game, and its world lends itself to fit within that gameplay. While there's magic in Azeroth, there's also 'supernatural' physical prowess as well. Azeroth is a realm of heroes and heroism, with a positive-feedback loop pressing people to greater heights of achievement.

Peasants may not be able to survive four-story drops, but heroes can jump down from great heights, land with a meteoric impact, and be ready to rumble... although four stories is certainly pushing it. I don't think there are any recorded cases of people jumping up more than one story, with the exception of Darius Crowley's worgen soldiers in Cataclysm, such as Tobias Mistmantle.

Likewise, for injuries. There was an argument over the capabilities of a Druid in animal form, with one stance being "A druid becomes that animal. Not a supernaturally empowered Druid-Animal" (Which I disagree with on all counts), which was also a way of saying "Animal druids are incapable of taking on a trained warrior" - when all lore sources indicate that Cat- and Bear-form druids are capable of holding their own against well armed, armored, and trained warriors. Furthermore, animals themselves are capable of heroic feats and empowerment as well - Some beasts that become legendary have hides capable of turning the sharpest blade, and claws capable of rending the strongest armors.

People also have different pain and damage tolerances - not everyone passes out from a lost limb in Azeroth, just as not everyone passes out from a lost limb in the real world (I've studied too many industrial accidents). It's a matter of willpower, and some people have heroic levels of the stuff.

With all this said, though, it all comes down to how mighty the person in question is, with realism being the line to acknowledge before deviating from.

[Nick]

Personally, I try to have some realism in my RP where it has a place. Mostly when dealing with travelling, armour and other such things. Obviously, when travelling, I don't get into specifics but my characters won't suddenly show up somewhere in no time UNLESS he/she actually used a portal which is rare in and of itself for most of my characters.

Sometimes you still have to go with "It's magic" but everything can usually be explained up to a certain point.