Consideration of Disorders and Conditions

[Flammeschmieden]

...I'm probably going to get scolded for this, but I thought it relevant for some reason. This is specificly on what we know as Stockholm Syndrome. I've been told once that it technically doesn't exist because obviously Stockholm is a Real World place. Apparently Blizzard made it a Thing, where a Forsaken dubbed it "Durnholde Syndrome" due to the Orcs being held there not wanting to leave their slavery. It's a quest chain that can be found here. http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Sweet,_Horrible_Freedom

So it's clear that even Blizz gets that war is hard on people. It does things that people who have never experienced war or slavery or other horrid things firsthand will ever experience fully. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with a character having something mentally wrong with them. The trick is to not make it THE very being of your character. Just like real life people who suffer, their pain is not what defines a character. It's an obstacle that may or may not be overcome. It should only be used with character development in mind.

[Clovis]

I will agree that players who are easily offended by the portrayal of things that 'hit close to home' should probably get used to backing away from the computer at certain times - the internet does not exist to protect peoples feelings.*

I will also agree that players who are insistent on portraying these characters please, -please-, use some bloody subtlety and tact and avoid 'naming names'. I really strongly doubt it will 'spoil muh fun' that badly.

I am probably not making any friends posting this, but it's my own personal opinion as a player.

*EDIT: I agree that CotH should be inviting and safe. I worded that wrong in my head. I think our community should respect peoples feelings and be tolerant of them - but I also PERSONALLY feel that sometimes people can find better ways to deal with their emotions that don't require cutting into someone elses entertainment. Obvious, this is a bit of a minefield issue sooo....let's uh, touch it another time.

[Rigley]

If we can make the environment more comfortable for others, I see no reason why that should not be done. The only thing that has been asked is that labels not be used.

I don't see it as a radical request.

[Etmosril]

Can't one just roll whatever the flip they want? If someone does a bad job of playing a disordered person here, there will be many complaints from the players they RP with. The problem cases make themselves evident, and they can be dealt with at leisure.

It seems easier than evaluating profiles which may or may not be an accurate representation of how the character is actually played.

[Harmonic]

I'm going to be very, very blunt, since everyone and their mother right now thinks that it's their prerogative to push this. If you don't care what I've got to say, if you think you're helping by dismissing me or others by saying don't look at this---you're not. This open community has been -designed- in the five, almost six years it's been up to be -OPEN- and -INVITING-. *Censored*

So, here's my proposition. And, I'm trying my best to be civil here, because it's really, -really- straining not to be right now--- but here it is.

Knock off the crap where people are not being sensitive to the feelings of others, and swallow your goddamn pride. Sheesh. I really can't understand why there's such a drastic need for you guys to bring this up in a manner that smears the shit from others lives -right- in our faces. Let's be honest, this is boiling down to respect here, do you -respect- the feelings of the people saying this shit isn't comfortable, or don't you?

[Wuvvums]

I will agree that players who are easily offended by the portrayal of things that 'hit close to home' should probably get used to backing away from the computer at certain times - the internet does not exist to protect peoples feelings.

We aren't just "the internet" though. We are a community, and we made two of our rules to be respect and tolerance. I would hope to some extent that we don't treat each other as if we aren't other anons, and I would hope that we would feel somewhat invested in protecting others, rather than ask them to just deal with it.

There have been times when something happened on the server that hurt a few people, and even if they weren't the "majority" I've been more than grateful that each time we've tried to address the issue that is in the best interest of those few. It might not have happened to you, but I would hope that you could understand.

[hiddengecko]

Wow's racism isn't like racism in real life. I would say the same for biological warfare (there is no such thing as undeath) and the war doesn't feel like the real wars we know in our life time, but the high-fantasy medieval war.

To be fair, I wasn't referring to The Plague proper; I was referencing The New Plague, as utilized by the Royal Apothocary Society at the Wrath Gate. A man's face is literally melting in the cutscene; is this not horrific? Also, while undeath may or may not be a solid metaphor for real-world plagues, biological warfare is biological warfare. Bubonic Plague and The Plague of Undeath may have different symptoms, but people still die horribly and that's used as a weapon.

As for racism, it's certainly less gritty, and less horrific than the real thing. It is, after all, fictional, and a cartoonish and idealized depiction after all. Nevertheless, my intended point was that in-universe, it would likely be just as horrific to the characters it affected as real-life racism is to us.

So, yes, racism and war and everything else in WoW is different than real life, because it's not real life. That doesn't mean the way things work are, though. Things are portrayed like high fantasy because it's high fantasy, but people are still people. Fathers grieve sons, people die horribly and pointlessly, and so on and so forth.

I admit that I don't understand why we should avoid attempting to incorporate, for example, the long-lasting trauma that comes of witnessing that kind of horror. Would not doing otherwise cheapen it - even glorify it? While it may be less immediately repulsive, any further observation renders it a far more offensive depiction of warfare.

[Xigo]

[Rigley]

Okay, so I'm mostly refraining from posting in here. But.

Furthering my chain of contradictions, no; of course Warcraft's racism is not exactly analogous to real life. Granted, it's probably worse

Granted, it's probably worse

Please, no.

Please. No.

[flammos200]

WoW touches on racism, war, genocide, torture, biological warfare, and even rape.

Wow's racism isn't like racism in real life. I would say the same for biological warfare (there is no such thing as undeath) and the war doesn't feel like the real wars we know in our life time, but the high-fantasy medieval war.

And I think this is another can of worms, but I would be highly worried if we used our rp to parody some things like the racism we find in real life. Like I hope we never go there.

...I find this post offends my sensibilities somewhat. You see, war is a very serious thing. It's demeaning to the human beings that have lost their lives in such to treat it as anything but.

War happens in Warcraft, and it is not at all glorious. If anything, that's because the setting as a whole is a ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy, where, well... let's just say there's grimdark. Nevertheless, War in Warcraft is as atrocious as it is in real life. People die by the sword, or burned alive(which is one of the most agonizing ways to die, mind) by a fireball, or frozen solid by a spell... Or turned into a pincushion by arrows. They still bleed, they still feel pain, they still die. What, then, should make us treat it as any less? Characters have families at home that weep for their passing. Soldiers leave wives to go to war and know full well they may never return. War is hell.

The Scarlet Crusade tortured countless. And they even had racks and everything. They were a parallel to the Inquisition IRL. To deny the existence of atrocity and to shove it under the rug and pretend it never happened is quite frankly a very bad thing in my eyes, because it's like pretending the victims never went through anything.

During Unbroken, Nobundo's storyline, we see torture, implied rape and even suicide. I don't know about you, but those things are pretty damn serious for me. They exist in the Warcraft world, and are a part of the Lore.

Don't get me wrong - We don't use modern tactics in Warcraft, or at least they don't in lore. If anything, they use Ancient tactics, which is a common mistake for Fantasy writers who try to portray middle ages combat. But don't think shoddy writers excuse the subject matter.

Heck, the Goblins in Cata - that one expansion treated as a joke - have a history of slavery and worse. Poor writing makes it seem like a parody, but in the end, there are still people suffering and wasting their lives at another's profit.

Treat serious subjects seriously, because from an IC perspective, they are serious. And as far as OOC goes, please be discrete. Yes, IC anything goes, as long as the people involved are okay with it. But OOC, there are limits, because we're no longer dealing with characters, but with people.

Incidentally, racism in WoW is more akin to Species-ism. Nevertheless, there should be quite a lot of care taken with the subject, as it is a delicate one, just like all the others.

TL;DR: Please, be careful and portray things properly, lest you risk offending others.

[Clovis]

This thread isn't about WoW Racism guys. :|

[hiddengecko]

Okay, so I'm mostly refraining from posting in here. But.

Furthering my chain of contradictions, no; of course Warcraft's racism is not exactly analogous to real life. Granted, it's probably worse

Granted, it's probably worse

Please, no.

Please. No.

...Actually, touche. I hadn't thought that line through. Amending it now.

[Wuvvums]

I'm not going to treat what happens in WoW as comparable to real life because when it comes down to it... it never really happened. We can sit around all day thinking up stories and thought experiments on what if this or that war happened, or this sort of racism occurred. And I am a little disturbed that we are comparing real life tragedies, events, and suffering to WoW. Another thing we forget is that sometimes games operate on a separate logic from real life. In real life we don't have mooks or NPCs, or things that die and come back (like respawning). I just... don't want to make WoW and analog for real life. Can we please not do this.

I could at the drop of the hat make the saddest and cruelest story imaginable and it will never hold a candle to the real life things that occur. In the end it IS just a game and by that nature it can very easily trivialize things that in real life are a huge deal.

[Rigley]

We are heading into (surprisingly) much darker territory with these last few posts.

Again. Please. Do not go there.

[mimloopen]

Though it is off topic, I agree with wuvvums. Hard to take tragedies seriously when they are in a fantasy setting and people are being resurrected left right and centre.