Roleplay and adult themes

[Krent]

Yeah its loaded with violence and war and nightmare fuel, but hyper-realism grimdorkery ala GoT just does not work here.

This is actually an interesting point that, in hindsight, should probably be stressed and discussed more.

Warcraft is, generally speaking, a rather noblebright setting. Black and white morality, the good guys always win in the end, the bad guys are cartoonishly evil, etc. etc. Even the more "nightmare fuel" bits aren't played up, and never really go into truly adult territory for long. Warcraft is far more likely to throw jokes and pop culture references than it is to try to seriously shock you with its adult themes. If we're respecting the setting we're in, Game of Thrones style RP is unlikely.

This does beg the question of how many folks RP on CotH because they genuinely love WoW lore, and how many picked a WoW RP server arbitrarily or because WoW is popular and thus the best choice for RP in general.

I think this is totally correct and probably why I don't RP in Warcraft anymore. I've always been turned off by black-and-white, heavily sanitized stories that operate in binary types of morality. My studies of history and human interaction in general have taught me that this is never true. In fact, fiction that portrays the world in such a way can sometimes even be dangerous; it can reinforce prejudice, dissuade suffering, and turn people away from critical thinking. It can even lead to mindless escapism--which in itself isn't too bad, but can lead people away from ever being aware of important real-world issues.

All fiction comes from the human experience. Everything, no matter how imaginative, draws upon reality. There is no way for a human to completely remove themselves from their own experience. At the very best, we can immerse ourselves fully in an ontological realm of imagination, but we'll never reach a fully "non-human" place. That means that no individual work of fiction exists in a vacuum--everything, regardless of whether or not the author intended it to, draws upon pre-existing texts and history. And because those things all have roots somewhere in reality, a black and white "good guys triumph over the bad guys" type of story can have disturbing undertones, if it isn't done right.

I cringe at the typical Tolkien-esque narrative, in which a bunch of fair-skinned "civilized" medeval societies band together and triumph over the "primitive hordes" of dark-skinned, low-tech, brutish orcs'n'monsters. 'Cause, y'know, colonialism.

On the original subject, though. Blah blah blah I have no problem with sex-death-drug-use-mayham-torture-blahblahblahblah.

But what concerns me is how these things are often labeled as "adult."

I think a lot of media operates in what I like to call "Rated M for Middle School." See, I'm actually (somewhat) of an adult now. Got myself working on a career and everything. And in this new stage of life, I've come to the crushing realization that being a "mature adult" is....dreadfully boring. You have to juggle finances, pay off taxes, negotiate rent, dawdle around with boring co-workers, adhere to a routine, worry over nothing, polish resumes and put on a mask for interviews....

Its boring. And in the midst of all that boredom, topics like sex and debauchery don't really seem that interesting. Some people are having sex, some people aren't, some people are nursing a hangover, some people are totally sober. There are wars and fighting going all over the place and weird violence videos on the internet. But, none of those individual things are particularly interesting. They're part of the "adult" world, but it isn't really that engaging.

Case in point; sex. Back when you're in highschool, sex was like, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAR. Who was having sex? Who wasn't having sex? "Ohmygawddidyoujusthearthenews?! I heard so-and-so spent like, thirty minutes making out, and not only that but I think he actually got his hand up her shirt!!!!!! OH WHOA!" And even when you get into college, you still have people obsessing over sex--mostly because it's easier now. People make such a huge deal over hooking up, not hooking up, almost hooking up, and the after-effects of hooking up. "Dude, the girl I've been having sex with expects me to treat her like a human being. WTF is up with that, bros?!"

But when you get to be an adult? Sex is just "eh." Boobs, dicks, butts 'n crotches. Seen it all before. *Yawn*. It's not a big deal. In fact, it's not even worth mentioning in most adult conversations. I actually think less of people in their mid-20's who flaunt their sex lives. It makes me think of them as still being stuck in a highschooler's mentality, because the truth is that no one cares about who you're having sex with. Unless, of course, you're actually having sex with them.

Which brings me to "Rated M for Middleschool."

A lot of media that bills itself as "adult" isn't really adult, in my opinion. Tossing in loads of gratuitous violence, nudity, cursing and "dark" topics isn't really all that hard. I mean, it's really easy to load up a narrative with "taboo" subjects and "shock value." It doesn't take any effort in the slightest--all you have to do is look at a list of subjects that the general population isn't comfortable with, and then proceed to check all of the boxes.

When it comes down to it, most "adult" themes only pique the interest of a juvenile mind. A lot of "adult" humor, "adult" subjects, and "adult" themes are something that only captures the interests of people who are not adults. Cramming everything full of boobs and blood and rape and gore is something any idiot with a keyboard can do. I don't have any respect for people who constantly go out of their way to appear "dark," "edgy," or "controversial," because there really isn't any skill in being that way. And it just isn't interesting to me.

Now, it's totally possible to create interesting works drawing on these themes. Game of Thrones is a good example of it. But the greatness of GoT doesn't come from the sex or violence in of itself; it comes from the utilization of those themes to create an intricate epic narrative, which immerses the audience and captures their intrigue. It all serves a specific purpose; all that sex and violence isn't thrown in for the hell of it.

Gah. I just read all of this over, and I realized I'm rambling.

The point is--I don't define "adult" roleplay by the amount of sexviolencedrugusetortureraperevengepaininsanitydrunkness it has. I think truly mature roleplay has to dig a bit deeper, and focus on something more. Like the individual's struggle with finding significance in a world that doesn't care for them, or the clashes that multiple cultures have in interpreting their complicated history, or operating within troubling institutions of power while trying to conform to them. Stuff that really digs into the human psyche and makes us question things.

"I find the social and economic structure of this world very troubling and it has lead to a lot of oppression and disenfranchisement and horrendous inequality but at the same time I have to conform to these standards because I need to sustain myself and even though I hate this world I am completely powerless to change it so I wonder how much of my own individual morals and ideals I can compromise for the sake of survival and individual autonomy before I start to break down mentally and lose all notions of self respect."

That seems more "adult" to me than titties and death.

[CopperheadSnake]

To sum up everything Krent just said in one sentence: sex, violence, and the interweaving thereof does not equal adult or mature themes. And I agree completely. Any hack can write up a story full of sex and dismemberment and get an R rating. However, that R rating isn't a certificate for maturity -- it is only a shorthand for saying the content is not appropriate for children or younger teens -- and I think this is where so many "dark fantasy" writers and RPers falter.

This brings me back to my Toy Story example. All three of those movies are possibly some of the most mature stories I've ever seen. Sure, there is no blood or nudity, and there certainly isn't any sex or innuendo, (Least, I don't think there is any innuendo), but all three of them treat their audience like thinking adults with brains in their heads.

Another more tangible example would be HP Lovecraft. He wrote some of the best, most disturbing stories ever to grace the written page, but there is little, if any violence, and sex is virtually nonexistent. Despite this, I wouldn't show anything of his to anyone younger then fifteen unless I personally knew they could handle it.

[Maulbane]

krent, stop being good at posting goddamn

[Paylonas]

I've been wanting to respond to this since the day it's posted, but I've had some trouble in writing something that I see fit for it - So here's my response, however wonderful or crappy it may be it's what you're getting! (Seriously though, these are some great questions.)

How comfortable are you with roleplay that revolves around, involves, or even just touches upon adult themes?

Since I've joined the Server earlier this year, (1-10-2014) I have indeed engaged in some of the more controversial types of RP and including those up there. I havenfound myself comfortable with either

Strong Sexual Themes

or

Extreme Violence

, these I do not have a problem with personally.

Strong Sexual Themes

It's alright, I mean I wouldn't want it to be the only thing I did or the main thing I do on the server.

- Repeating it would get boring (IMO)
- I don't want to build up that reputation on the server
- I don't find much sense in that being the only thing one of my character's does.

Every once in a while is alright for me however, I don't mind going to the back of the RP store where children aren't allowed to go if they're under a certain age. It depends on the situation however, for example;
- Nina meets a dashing, heroic young fellow who is clad in iron and recently home from the battlefield. He attempts to court her and get into thine pantaloons.

No.

-Nina meets a dashing, heroic young fellow who is clad in iron and recently home from the battlefield. He does court her, but not in attempt to get in them bodacious trunks. Instead to give love a chance and build upon a relationship, perhaps later in this relationship there might be some of the booty involved.

Nine times out of ten - I'll give it the chance. Let it develop, and if the IC relationship gets to that level then some sweet bed time bumping makes sense. (IMO)

Extreme Violence

Woah, that's totally radical dude! (Rhetorical) Why don't we see more of it though? Likely because of lot of places it's just not right for it to happen, however I personally would like to see more of it despite our attempts to keep things PC and PG-13. The next couple of parts I'm going to put into a spoiler, because they just might (JUST MIGHT) be a bit too much for some people.

WARNING - Sensitive topic, you have been warned. Please no complain-a-roni.

Spoiler:

I'd definitely like to see some more extreme violence on the server, I at the least wouldn't mind having my characters exposed to it or being directly involved in it. My dark side actually tends to come out and I get all giggly when stuff like this happens! I'm not talking about suffocating someone by skinning the area around their neck and pulling it up and over their mouth and nostrils, but wait... I am? I love IC Drama of this type, the suspense, the action, the thrills.

Being on the receiving side

Man you must be crazy to think I'd put any of my character through some cracked ass shit like tha- Guess I'm crazy then. I have no problem with exposing any of my characters to potential danger or death like that.

- ICly most of my characters hate getting into fights or altercations, OOCly I could care less with which character it is. Go ahead, randomly shove a cleaver into Nooken's jaw.

- I don't mind making new characters if I were to ever run out of characters due to situations like these, mind you it'd be severely unfortunate if all of them were to befall the fate of death through violence such as this.

- It'd be nice for it to happen occasionally, not every second I'm RPing a certain character I have to worry about facing certain death. It's nice to take breaks from things, as is the whole adult RP thing.

I think I've covered my bases on this one, so spoiler - END.

Hard Drug Use

This is a definite denial for me, I will never subject any of my character to drug use and I hope that other people won't try to do so either without giving my consent. I have my reasons, of which I can explain - Shortly after I clarify some other things.

- Alchohol isn't really too bad, while it can be considered a drug I don't mind it. Go ahead, spike poor old Nina's drink and watch her get drunk.

- If it's for sake of a pre-determined event, (I'm not sure what type of event would have this happen). Then I'm fine so long as I'm being notified that my character will be drugged and it's effects are them being paralyzed, knocked out, etc.

- Poisons or anything really that affects combat is also fine with me, such as paralyzing my character, blinding my character, etc.

- Injecting, Snorting, Smoking, those are things I'm not to keen about. I'm not going to list every drug I'm not fond with because that'd be a -really- long list.

(DISCLAIMER: I could care less about your life choices, if they include drugs or have included drugs that is entirely up to you as it is YOUR life. I do not hate you, I hate drugs.)
What's my problem with drugs? I hate them, I don't think anyone should use them, and I wish they'd disappear so humanity wouldn't have to deal with it anymore. I grew up in an environment in which drugs were a common thing for those around me, drugs have changed people I've known and cared about. Drugs have killed people I've known and care about. In the past I've had a drug problem which I'm not going to get too much in depth about on here, if you MUST know then send me a PM on the forums or a message over Skype.

How do you agree upon the boundaries of a roleplay, in terms of how much it can/should involve these themes?

Personally? I would enjoy these themes (excluding drugs) as much as they could be integrated into RP. However everything (Including World of Warcraft) is good in moderation, thus we shouldn't focus on one thing and try to change it up as we go on. I think so long as the situation occurs for it it's fine.

Adult Stuff

- "Hey babe, I know we just met but I'm a steaming hot stud who just did blah blah blah. Wanna make love?" "TOTALLY!"

This, I've had this happen with me in the past - However it isn't something that I think should be occurring on a regular basis. By all means go ahead and do this if you want to, I'm not going to stop you - Just make sure you take the proper precautions, find a nice snug corner in Silvermoon, and keep in in Party Chat.

- "Hey darling, I know we don't usually do these types of things... But we just got married-" "I'm five steps ahead of you."

This, I haven't actually have this happen in the past but it's something I'd like to have happen in the future. A relationship between my character and another persons which gets to the point of... This. Really I love this, and I think it's alright to do it for appropriate reasons.

- This is just me attempting to be funny, disregard if no hilarity ensues. Don't ERP just to have your character be a baby bumping machine, having one come out exactly every nine months.

Extreme Violence

I'm not going to write all to much here, instead I'm going to give examples and say something afterwards. It seems to work pretty well.

- HEY BILLY, BOOM HEADSHOT.

- HEY BILLY, BOOM HEADSHOT.

- HEY BILLY, BOOM HEADSHOT.

- HEY BILLY, get my point?

Now this covers a couple of things...

Your character is not the best of the best, the beast who feats, and is invincible to every single blow that is thrown towards it. (Unless your @"Kretol" ) They might genuinely be a rather tough opponent and the likeliness of them getting beaten by a commoner (Like Rider) is slim to none, however he might land a lucky blow.

Like other things it is good in moderation, as is World of Warcraft.

Be creative whenever you're in a fighting scene and have consent to use extreme violence, don't just be generic Joe who goes "STAB STAB, SLASH SLASH, SHANK SHANK, BOOM U DED I WIN."

Drugs

Never, ever. (IMO)

I might have overdone myself on this section, sorry.

What have you noticed about the way the server currently handles this topic?

PG-13 and attempting to keep it PC, which isn't a bad thing because we have tons of players who come from tons of places and believe in tons of differing things. Not to mention we also various different aged players here, so it's understandable.

- More of it, I want more. (BECAUSE I AM COMMANDO CHILD, AND YOU OBEY ALL OF MY REQUESTS)

- So long as the situation calls for it.

- And like World of Warcraft, take it in mod- You already know what I was going to finish that with.

What are your opinions/how would you like it to change?

Honestly, more quality RP of these types in Moderation.

Brief (Likely long as hell) Recap

- Moderation

- Acceptable Circumstances/Situation

- I do not care what you do ICly or OOCly these are all my opinions, I do not like you less or more for what's stated here. I'd actually be pretty sad and feel bad about myself if someone took this personally, so please don't.

- This Recap was not long. WOOHOO!

[Roxas65]

I just wanna point out how weird I always find it that Krent always comes across as though he has the wisdom of an old man, but the mannerisms of a giddy schoolgirl.

I think that somewhere, a scientist is looking for a person just like Krent to study the next step in human evolution.

And I meant everything I just said in the absolutely best way possible.