roleplay vs fairplay

[Piken]

I'm just gonna say something really quick here. Are people throwing out character warnings before going into these situations, or at all? Isn't that what they're for? No offense, but saying "You shouldn't be there" or whatever as an excuse to not give a character warning is just dick. Sure, it may be common sense sometimes, but warnings are there to, ya know, warn. Sometimes people are getting into situations where they're not completely aware that they're in danger. So before you go "OMG HUMAN/ELF/PANDA!! KILL IT!!" tell the person OOCly, "Hey, you may want to back off, you may get killed ICly." or whatever you may wish to say. Of course, for a BElf in Elwynn.. yeah, sorry, you sign your own death warrant.. but again, imo, character warnings can prevent much drama.

(People post fast. -.-)

[Dotsy]

As stated before in earlier posts: You should NEVER actively seek out characters alone anywhere and rush to kill them ICly, or anything like that at all.

It's always puzzled me to why some people do this. Most often done by using the "Who" system, it's become sort of bothering to most. Doing this commonly falls under god-modding also, so it's very often against the rules.

[Krishana]

"If we abandon realism and allow Blood Elves to enter Alliance territory with NO ONE reacting... That's bad roleplay. You must understand that characters act in a way that is realistic. It may not be fun for you, but would you ask everyone around you to break character simply to allow you some roleplay that would also break your character? That... "Is an extremely selfish attitude.""

-I think you are taking a bit too far my meaning. I am not saying not reacting at all; only, I ask for chances to escape. You gave me none at all. There should always be something.

"I don't often have fun killing player-characters. I don't often have fun losing player characters. HOWEVER. I accept that the world we play in works a certain way, and occasionally (Or sometimes often) my character's motivations and views conflict with my own. That's roleplaying. I long ago learned to deal with it and have fun being someone unlike myself."

-I am perfectly fine with this. But I stand my point; if you have no fun about it, why forcing it then?

"I respect your wish to let your character live, but going places that you will IC'ly die is not a good idea. I offered to capture your character because you kept on complaining, and I passed you off to a character who might not have killed you because that was what my character would do."

which I will link with

"I hate to see new people leave, but if you aren't willing to play your character by the rules of the world she lives in, then I can't say what you should do. I apologize for being as aggressive as I was, but I get kind of angry when people disregard lore and the conditions of the world to do whatever they feel like doing. It makes me have little compassion for them at all."

-Here, I apologize for my lack of knowledge on Warcraft lore. To be honest, I knew nothing of it when I first started. I had to scroll all over wowwiki to find out information, dedicated quite some time to it. I am making effort to blend in...

-Speaking of which: Horde RP.

"I know exactly where RP has gone to. Without a city for a bunch of Elves and Humans to have tea-parties and eRP, the Horde has become violent and does what it should. Instead of sitting in a tavern why not start RP with your Horde compatriots? Instead of complaining why not improve the situation yourself?"

-Wrong.
Right now, we are sitting all days long in an inn, having tea party and greeting new warriors coming in each days.

yes... there was a little bit of action at Ratchet.
The night elf died.
How many more Alliance characters ready to sacrifice their characters now? We won't roleplay with NPC scourge really... it's not truly possible.

I know not much of Ratchet before and what it might of been. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think it's too pertinent.

I wasn't going in Elwynn for tea party. I was there with the intent to spy, and to pass over the frontier to the north.
Lara knows what happened... we didn't lingered with words; we fought...

to be perfectly honest... it wasn't supposed to last long, and I'd have been on my way contend.

[MrBubbles]

God-moding was a serious issue with Krishana's case. If your character has no reason to be in a place besides "I was taking a stroll, and I found these people fighting over a blood elf!", you simply shouldn't be there. It doesn't matter how many times you've refreshed the /who list or looked at the player map.

[Clovis]

At the risk of taking a Side, it seems like the person who Krishana was initially roleplaying with agreed to a fair and, supposedly, private rp between themselves, and other people, out of boredom, got involved by taking a perfectly timed stroll in Elwynn.

I'm not saying don't get involved in rp, but maybe some special consideration should be taken for supposed combat situations?

[Dotsy]

If you (ICly) do a hostile action, that's a warning right there. You're character was spying for his/her faction, and therefore, warnings are a little out of place.

The character warning system always gets brought up when deaths are, but we must learn to be realistic. If your character is heavily involved in hostilities towards anyone, don't expect a warning from them, unless it's a stealthy move.

[Aruen]

At the risk of taking a Side, it seems like the person who Krishana was initially roleplaying with agreed to a fair and, supposedly, private rp between themselves, and other people, out of boredom, got involved by taking a perfectly timed stroll in Elwynn.

I'm not saying don't get involved in rp, but maybe some special consideration should be taken for supposed combat situations?

True in that, we didn't agree on a private RP, but rather on a no-killing rp battle. When I saw those 2 guards running in from the road, I actually invited him to join in over chat saying "My character could use the help I think" to that person ( I lost his name.. sorry), and after that he joined in. It was supposed to be a good fight, where in the end she would ran off either with me wounded or her either being wounded, and as Krishana said, we didn't spoke, we fought.

[Krishana]

Here's where RP and OORP get mixed up and people can get away with whatever interpretation they like. Here's mine.

The World of Warcraft is actually pretty small, despite the appearances... maps aren't that huge. They look huge because of an increased depth perspective, if I am not wrong. Being a 3D artist, I got some experience with that.

Brings us to this: if I want interaction, I've got to get noticed somehow... yes?
Lara was randomly killing off animals in the woods. Krishana was hidden in what seemed to be an abandonned shack, and was wondering what was going on. RPly, I supposed I was midway between the center of the forest and the road. Deeper in, no one would of noticed me (unless they, indeed, godmodded with the player online map) and farther out, well, geez, I'd be in the middle of the road, right?

[Kaghuros]

You gave me none at all. There should always be something.

You didn't need to be there, did you? You were wandering around in the very heart of the Alliance. It's the definition of suicide. I'm sorry if it comes off harsh, but there's a reality you're avoiding. RP is where you make it, and you don't need to travel to locations you could logically never survive reaching IC to do it.

Let it also be known that I was willing to capture you, but you were trying to kill someone in Human territory. How is my character, as a guard, supposed to respond to that? Let it go?

...if you have no fun about it, why forcing it then?

"...my character's motivations and views conflict with my own."

I did it because my character would. I roleplay as my characters do, not as I do. Some of my characters... Well... I despise them as people, but I enjoy playing them because they offer a perspective I don't have myself.

Here, I apologize for my lack of knowledge on Warcraft lore. To be honest, I knew nothing of it when I first started. I had to scroll all over wowwiki to find out information, dedicated quite some time to it. I am making effort to blend in...

I can forgive this, but when you read Warcraft lore didn't you come across the section detailing the hatred Blood Elves and Humans have? If we didn't reinforce it enough times on the server and forums, I apologize, but there's a war going on. War means intolerance.

Right now, we are sitting all days long in an inn, having tea party and greeting new warriors coming in each days.

That's the participant's fault for not doing something else. I'm organizing and DMing a Blood Elf event, and helping DM with more than one Orc/Horde event. If no one is participating in them or preparing for them... Well... What am I going to do about it?

Again, I apologize for my intolerance of what you did. It hurt you in a way I didn't expect, because I wasn't aware you were so attached to your character. Your character isn't even dead, and could have had an IC rez. I didn't want to make you so amazingly emotional, but your response, quite frankly, hasn't made me any more thrilled with you as a player. I empathize, but eventually you'll need to learn that no character is sacred. Anyone can be killed IC because they do something that IC'ly results in death.

[Tascain]

I think the main issue here is that peopled /whoed to find her and probably used the player map to track her down, so wouldn't that be considered Metagaming?

[Hawk]

Well, actually... IC wise, World of Warcraft, all the lands, are a lot bigger. Blizzard just didn't want their players trekking 25 minutes from one town to the other.

But back on topic!

What bothers me about Krishana's case is why a whole group of people suddenly appeared where she was in Elwynn. Did they have any reason to venture from the city into the forest? Probably not. Most likely, they just /who'd saw who was where and decided that Elwynn might be a good idea. Which that much (unintended, but true) godmoding, it gives the underdog absolutely no chance for escape. Oh, ten people just happened to be strolling through the forest when they all ran into the same Blood Elf. Real realistic. Enemy territory, yes. But were they all really expecting the appearance of a foe in their homeland?

I've had a character die in a similar situation to Krishana's, and it's not very fun. I can see where you're coming from - But the thing is, unless the people in control are in a non-bloodthirsty mood, then your character is going to die. And you can't really do anything about it.

Quoted for 9001% truth.

And to add to that, if you're going through hostile territory, warning or not, really you should know that people aren't going to greet you with rainbows and peace. Especially when war has been declared. That said, I still give out warnings before I let my character see them, if in the event I meet a Horde/Alliance in Alliance/Horde territory.

Honestly. I think people just need to relax and try not to grab at each other's throats so quickly. There was even a podcast on this by Lethys and Cressy. Why is everyone so hostile? Obviously, this is a war and people do hate each other and live off the thrill in ripping off people's heads, but remember something: We're not bloodthirsty Orcs IRL. It's like bullies kicking down kid's sandboxes at the beach.

Violence/war RP does make some good RP, and infact war type RPs (e.g. the Scourge invasion) are my favourite types of RP. But when people just actively go out to kill people's character's, don't be so surprised when the player gets a bad reaction. But Krishana, whether you knew about Blood Elf/Human hatred, it's still Alliance territory and you're Horde. I don't really understand why you're so surprised your character is hurt when they're in enemy territory. I'm not taking a side here, I just think it's a bit... weird.

I'll also note that if someone's getting attacked in enemy territory... don't go joining in if you're character wouldn't be around that area... It only proves you wouldn't do it yourself if no one else was around.

Grow some balls. Seriously.

/endrant

[Maulbane]

Look, I don't know...

I can't... Bleh.

I, though I may be an isolated case, have learned to purge all suchlike feelings for my characters. I RP Jelme like I want to RP him - Oblivious of danger in most situations. He's done amazingly dangerous things ICly, and i've always prepared for an inevitable death. With a character like him, there's not much of a prospect of a long life.

All I can say is this harsh statement: "Stop caring about your characters" by that I mean, not actually STOP caring, but merely accept that your character has a realistic possibility of death when you put him/her/it into danger.

HOWEVER, I do not condone the acts of the ones who found it fair to use /who, while I use it, I don't sneak up on possibly private RP until I ask what it is and if I am wanted.

But, it appears, your characters has its IC resurrect still pending. So things seem a bit overblown in my opinion.

[Kaghuros]

Her character isn't even dead.

This being said, isn't this all a little... Overblown? I'm going to go enjoy myself tonight with someone I care about, and, while you can argue as much as you want, this has been done into the ground. Hopefully it'll be dead by the time I come back tomorrow, because I've explained all that needed to be explained and the debate is essentially over on my part.

When all is said and done, the world is still turning isn't it?

[Terant]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this here yet, but there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can deny you the right to one resurrection per character. It has been discussed many times before, and one death does not mean absolute death. It may seem difficult to do, seeing as you were captured by Stormwind, but even in this situation yoru right to resurrection can't be denied.

[Krishana]

Her character isn't even dead.

This being said, isn't this all a little... Overblown? I'm going to go enjoy myself tonight with someone I care about, and, while you can argue as much as you want, this has been done into the ground. Hopefully it'll be dead by the time I come back tomorrow, because I've explained all that needed to be explained and the debate is essentially over on my part.

When all is said and done, the world is still turning isn't it?

"will soon be dead"

Also, I'm not asking for anything really, just a change of mentality. It's not that hard I think...