Questions Concerning Night Elves and the Alliance

[Seraphim]

As I've been playing a Night Elf as my main, and have been roleplaying with other Night Elves for a while now, I've been experiencing some odd trends concerning the race and their treatment of/by the members of the Alliance ICly. As such, I'd like to try and clear some things up with the help of you guys, and get some kind of official consensus on server lore.

Note: I'm going to use the word Elven and Elf to refer to Night Elves, here, just so I don't have to type 'Nelf' over and over again. =P

The main question I have is simply this: Is it server policy/lore for the baseline reaction of any Non-Elven person to an Elf to be hatred?

I understand perfectly that no member of the Horde should be friendly with a member of the Alliance, unless in extraordinary situations (Battle of Hyjal kind of extraordinary). But are the members of the Alliance considered to be immediately hostile (i.e. would murder one if they had a sharpened stick and nobody was around) toward Elves?

The same question goes for the opposite: Do the Elves as a faction, according to server lore and rules, outright hate the other Alliance races? Again, hate implies a willingness to kill without provocation, given the chance.

My next question is regarding city guards, assuming that all humans would not simply murder an Elf (or visa versa) when given the opportunity: In an argument between a Night Elf and any other non-human race in a human city, would the Elf immediately become the target of the guards? And does this change if the Elf is on the defensive in the argument? Further, if an Elf were physically threatened or attacked in a city such as Stormwind, Stromgarde, etc, would they be afforded any protection from human guards?

I ask these questions because I've been noticing a general trend toward Elves resembling something of their own hostile faction, at least in player-character reactions. I would like to know how much of this is actually server-lore, and how much of it is the perception of players.

There are quite a few instances of Human and Night-Elven NPCs willingly working, training, and living together in-game, but I also understand that it is the general policy of this server that WoW itself can be lore-breaking. I would like to know if this is the case with Night Elves being proper members of the Alliance.

Thanks you!

[Kaghuros]

Night Elves were never meant to be proper members of any faction. WoW did that just for game-balancing issues so as to have a race in Kalimdor for the Alliance. It is my personal belief that the Night Elves dislike almost every single other race that has ever existed, sans Furbolgs, for their recklessness and apparent stupidity.

That said, and since relations were never meant to exist between the two factions, the Alliance of Lordaeron would naturally trust its own members not to lie over a race of inherently secretive and nigh-unwilling allies, even if they do happen to be lying. There will be a bias in the arguments of any guardsman towards helping his own race come out on top, unless sufficient evidence overcomes it.

[ChampionMouse]

Night Elves do not mistrust everyone. If a person would travel through their territory, they would see that there are many other members of the alliance working closely with them. In Ashenvale alone you have a family of humans LIVING with a family of Night Elves. You have an Draenai apprentice Hippogryph trainer. Of course they are not completely open and trusting, that wouldn't make sense. But in fact, there are 350 humans that live in Ashenvale according to WoW wikki.

But to argue that Nelfs severely dislike everyone else and are not real members of the alliance seems to be, sorry, ridiculous. They would not just start killing people for walking their streets. I have had fellow alliance players openly threaten to murder my character just for being an Elf. You would think, oh hey this character is just one of those racist types, but the truth is...I've been on the server for less then two weeks and this has happened quite literally everyday (in front of the guards mind you). If it is server policy that Nelfs should be abused everywhere they go, then I will go along with it. It just doesn't make sense that I would be treated like a hordie by characters whose profiles claim they are good and true alliance members.

Blizzard may make a lot of mistakes and contradict themselves, but they are still the ones that invented World of Warcraft. I don't think you can so readily dismiss this mass NPC presence (humans in Ashenvale and Nelfs in the Park District of Stormwind.)

I don't mean to start an argument, I really don't. I'm just tired of encountering the same character cliche, and the same conflict over and over again. I just want people to be aware that if you are threatening a fellow PC, even if they are a Nelf, in front of guards...they are going to do something. Okay? I've gotten very frustrated by the power gaming because I have not mastered the whole screen shot technique. And when I have tried to talk to the players personally they try to argue that the guards wouldn't care about this whole attempted murder thing. =( Maybe I just get unlucky with who I encounter. Haha.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it, and I hope that an argument won't start because of it. I just need to make people aware of the other side of things.

-Mouse-

[Kaghuros]

I will admit to having spread the "Night Elf Hate" meme for a reason. It was to stop the blatantly lore-breaking Elves from existing. The ones who marry outside their race, act as though they're Humans, and become essentially Purple (Insert generic race here).

While I haven't seen hatred that bad, and don't agree with it, people still aren't playing Elves like elves and this idea is intended to get it so that everyone who decides to break Elven lore does it closer to the way Elves actually are. If mistrust is the stereotype, all characters will be ultra-loving and lesbian-Elf it up with Draenei and Human women. If hate is the stereotype, they might be less so, or at least it will be less conducive to that kind of play. Well... That's how it's meant to work at least.

Honestly it's not helped at all.

[Hawk]

Not to start an arguement myself, of course, but really, Night Elves see other Alliance races (Draenei excluded) as kids. Imagine this little scenario, something similar was also brought up ingame:

Elf: "Good! We've stopped the world exploding from magic! Vile thing nearly destroyed the world."
*Other races come along*
Human: "lol check out our magicz"
Dwarf: "TIMBERRR!"
Elf: "WTF!"

Although that saaaaaaaaid... Elves do not go around threatening people because of their race. At all. If players are doing that from a percieved stereotype, that's entirely wrong. Night Elves are VERY cautious of other races, with all reason to. They've lived for thousands of years, seen it all and done it all, seen their world destroyed, and now they're about to see other races do the exact same thing. They're basically trying to prevent it from happening to them, at any costs. But they sure as hell would not outright murder the other races for no reason, even if the opportunity came before them. That's just ridiculous. For example my Night Elf. He dislikes lots of races, Alliance included. But he wouldn't kill one for no reason. If a Night Elf goes around killing for no reason, that Elf has a mental disorder.

And about the guard thing... that also, again, not allowed under any circumstance. If that's been happening, then you may aswell report them if it's done repeatedly. Or just tell them that a guard wouldn't stand by and let civillians threaten each other.

Night Elves aren't the most cuddly of people, but they aren't barbaric murderers. Apparently, we're going to learn why the Elves joined the Alliance in the upcoming WoW film.

That is all.

/end rant

[Cressy]

I don't mean to start an argument, I really don't. I'm just tired of encountering the same character cliche, and the same conflict over and over again.

I have to be honest, I prefer people playing the racial cliches as there are . . . SOO MANY FREAKING PEOPLE WHO DON'T. IT MAKES THE CLICHES RARE AND PISSES ME OFF. . . With that, I have two Nelves and they don't -hate- everyone, like Kag said, "They highly distrust others."

About the whole NPC issue, Blizzard adds things in a lot just because they can, they don't cater to the Roleplay aspect of the MMORPG, and it is very apparent. I mean, how else would the be allowed to make Haris Pilton?

Believe me, I used to feel the same way, "I don't want to play the stereotypes," when I first joined the server, but as I played more and saw how messed up the Nelf population was, it slowly started to change. Hell, I am ashamed to say that I played Crescentia Pre-Wrath.

And not all humans are racist and hates elves, but yes, a majority area, and in the free creative environment that we play in, we are each allowed to choose how characters act. If people want to have characters who hate Elves, then, well. So be it. I mean, I have a Nelf that openly talked to people within the church to make sure they rejected an Elf/Human marriage. Because you know what? That is how she is. Not everyone is going to, but. . . Yeah.

Oh, "Good and true alliance members" is in the eye of the beholder. And more than half the time people change their characters after writing their profile. I mean, hell, I have.

[Painty]

As you might have guessed, the Kaldorei are rather a serious race to attempt to play, with a lot of facets which just don't seem to make it into rp. Instead, people seem to want to take the piss (and even the designers have done so by giving the Kaldorei the most irritating emotes ingame). However I still believe that is more to do with people's perceptions and “elf-hatin'”, as it has very little to do with the Kaldorei history itself. Playing Kaldorei old-school is a rather challenging task to take on...but I'd certainly welcome more people willing to give it a go.

Yes, they'd trust one of their own kind over one of the funny-looking strangers who live in a completely backwards world in their eyes. It's not server lore, it's basic human reasoning (for all such a thing is worth with demi-humans). It works vice-versa, too. There's more to it than them hate everyone because, in their genetic code, they're designed to be racist towards everyone besides anthropomorphic bears and trees and other elves.

Of course, individuals can hate races and factions all they like. REALLY hate. Lynch-mob kind of hate, even. Even large groups of individuals. But they usually have a psychological reason. Fear and paranoia, superiority or inferiority complexes, culture and upbringing, and even the sway of a convincing leader. So yes, people are like that. It's not a rule, but it's possible and likely and common. But it's not because they're always chaotic evil, or anything like that.

I'm going to go and bring myself to the point I was trying to make with the quote I posted: You need to know your race as well as you know your character. It's a psychological thing-- what they've experienced and gone through and what kind of environment they lived in makes them the person they are. It's a strong bias for nurture over nature, sure, but it really does prevent going to any extremes when it comes to your character and cliches-- which I shall now refer to as cultural traits. (And, truth be told, when it comes to an honest, well-rounded, fully developed, deep character, the cultural traits don't even seem to stick out that much-- at least to the person writing them. It's more than being a drunk dwarf or a xenophobe elf, it's about being a well-written person with a well-written personality. It gets to be a problem when that's ALL they are, essentially a cardboard cutout with some nasty words about other races scribbled onto it.)

Edit: To clarify, yes, the guards would react to crimes comitted by non-elves to elves. Or to anyone, really. It's their job to fight crime. 'Cause they're guards.

[ChampionMouse]

The problem with all the responses is that none of them answer Seraphim's questions. I don't care how people play their individual characters, like I said, maybe I've just had bad luck. I just want to know, like Seraphim, what the actual server standard is. Is there even one? Or are we just going on various opinions? I find it rather annoying that people keep bringing up bad Nelf rpers to justify their points, when I haven't seen any like that on CoTH. Maybe it was that way in the past, where everybody was all about love and peace, but really, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Kaelvan]

It's roleplay, we all bring our own flavor to the Server, which means that everyone roleplays their elf different, there is no standard, though there are similarities in how people roleplay their night elves, there is definatly not a standard. We just wing it I would say, there is a post made by Maeven about night elves, and it should help with night elf players immensly.

Good luck in finding your answer if it wasn't given.

[Freke]

They way I see the elf hate, at-least with one of my characters is: You tend to not like to be around people that are the exact opposite of you. Take Dwarves and Elves. Dwarves could give a rats ass about the environment around them. In-fact, the Dwarves, the Orcs and Goblins are closely similar in terms of regard for nature. Look at it this way. If you don't smoke and you really don't like being around it, will you hang out with those people? No, you wouldn't. In-fact you would try to best avoid them if you were really adamant about it.

Another way is if I were to walk into Darnassus and stroll up in the city like I belonged there, that would give a bad impression and you probably would be disliked. If I walked into an eleven city and started to argue with other humans and then told elves to more or less piss off and mind your own business, you would be disliked..alot.

Reason I don't like elves OOC'ly is because most people I've seen play an elf don't stay true to their lore. The way they act, the way they talk, and act is if they where higher up on the food chain than us-to put it in blatant terms. And I can admit this. The OOC 'hate'-if you will-does affect my judgement when dealing with Elves IC'ly. I say this IC'ly and OOC'ly. I give every race a fair chance. Even horde-to an extent. I give elves fair chances, but my opinion is easily swayed from First impressions. If the elf character is very quiet, subtle and more or less secretive. I wouldn't generally lash out at the elf and understand their reason for it. But if a elf starts talking to me like a Dwarf and a Human had babies, the OOC side of it would show. It's hard to not let it get in the way. :\

I've probably got more to this but I wanna get in and start RPing so here's my two cents.

[Seraphim]

I should probably clarify, or take a second to emphasize the questions in my first post. According to the official lore of the server:

-Do the people within the Alliance of Lordaeron automatically dislike Elves to the point of murder?
-Do the Night Elves automatically dislike the races of the Alliance in Lordaeron to the point of murder?
-How would human guards react to death-threats or physical violence against a Night Elf in human cities?

The last question has so far received the most attention. It seems that the answer is generally believed to be that human guards would help a Night Elf who is the victim of assault within a city, even if the attacker is of one of the Eastern races. However, a Human, Dwarf, or Gnome would be trusted before an Elf. I think it would be safe to assume that the situation in Darnassus would be similar, with an Elf being trusted before a human, but the human receiving protection from the guards, if they are threatened or attacked.

The real purpose of this post is to generate an official, server-lore-based standpoint on these questions. It was never my intention to question how individual player-characters roleplay, but rather how the two factions interact as larger entities. Having a Human/Dwarf/Gnome/Draenei that dislikes and attempts to murder Night Elves (or any race) sheerly for their parentage is acceptable, according to the rules of the server. It is in my personal opinion a poor way to add conflict to an RP, and can impede roleplay more than fostering it. However, my questions pertain more to how NPCs would respond to such interactions than how players should act as their characters.

It would be interesting to discuss the other points made here: OOC hatred from retail leaking into IC interactions on CotH, the pitfalls of creating a hostile environment for other players based on the race they choose to play, and which parts of Blizzard's lore should be taken as jokes. However, that really isn't the purpose of this thread. Thank you for the energetic responses, however. ^^

[Blaize]

Isn´t there a type of dwarf that DOES respect nature a lot, and train gryffons and live in the forest?

Anyway, here goes my very simple opinion on this matter:

1- Night elves see other races as INFERIOR. That´s the fact. Wether your character translates that into hatred, mistrust or just general looking-down-on them, is up to you.

2- Other alliance races see them as uptight and proud, but there is no widely spread HATRED for night elves. Your alliance character can hate them if they want, but this is NOT a social norm.

3- Guards will ALWAYS break up fights and try to avoid murders. Saying "Oh the guard wouldn´t act because so-so is a night elf/dwarf/draenei/whatever" is just plain guard abusing and is not allowed. If any other character attacks you and claims that the guard wouldn´t help you, first politely tell him that this is neither logical nor allowed, and if he/she insists...take a screen and PM it to a GM and IGNORE that player.

4- For the sake of rich and balanced roleplay, everyone should take the time to read about their character´s race and take into great account the social upbringing that said character has recieved. If, for example, as a night elf, you have been brought up being told that orcs are evil and destructive, it wouldn´t make sense for your character to simply break away from that for no reason and be nice and cheery to orcs.

[Kaelvan]

Nature Dwarves would be the Wildhammer.

-Do the people within the Alliance of Lordaeron automatically dislike Elves to the point of murder?

No, they do not hate them to the point of murder.

-Do the Night Elves automatically dislike the races of the Alliance in Lordaeron to the point of murder?

No, they do not hate them to the point of murder, but they feel them inferior, and would kill one to save another elf.

-How would human guards react to death-threats or physical violence against a Night Elf in human cities?

Yes, they would help either way. But they would believe a human/gnome/dwarf over a night elf/draenei.

Now, In Darnassus. I believe that the guards would help an elf over a human, not just trust. But physically. If the elf claims to be in a dire situation, or recieved threats. From my perpsective.

[Armistad]

Isn´t there a type of dwarf that DOES respect nature a lot, and train gryffons and live in the forest? Aerie Peak Dwarves, Hinterlands.

As for the racial tension, I feel two things come to the surface.
Numero Uno- To many Elves in Stormwind, (without a true purpose.) If you're enacting as an emissary or dropping off a letter of introduction, great. Your only safe haven is realistically the park and the Keep. Any where else, you would be watched closely.

Numero Dos- To many elves on their racial mounts within the city. Check them at the door. They are a beast, and within human settlements they will be regarded as such. No exceptions, you will be jailed, or the beast will be attacked and eventually killed. Do not debate this.

And Numero Tres- As Blaize and many others stated anything in ear shot or eye shot, will be enacted upon by a nearby guard.

Seraphim, as for your interaction with such disdain being directed towards you, is an utter overreaction by players. To many times we as a communal whole will incorporate such hateful ideals and emotions into our character base. Where as such a thing is to few and far in between in all reality. In the Eastern Continent, other than the NPC's placed in the park for aesthetic in game reasons to enact as special trainers (class or profession), one's interaction with such a foreign race does not happen as frequent as you would think and wish. In essence there is no reason to hold such bias ill will towards the "loosely" in game alliance. In all reality Lore wise, Night Elves are a non partisan race with their own agendas. In old WoW, and the original quest lines before the numerous expansions, a non N.E. player would not associate with them unless you were either a Horde Druid, or until you came across a shift in the "balance" of nature they oh so get involved with, 'Desolace, Silithus, etc.'

As for assaults of Night Elves in human cities, to me it's bad form and an excuse to thin out your numbers in the area, or a player certainly wishes to take up residency in The Vault, which isn't so bad either.
As for humans in Elven lands, yes there is some. Just how in the real world some nations allow a military or humanitarian development on their soil for social and foreign development (i.e- embassies, and other misc installations. Okinawa in Japan is a prime example, G-Bay Cuba, Azores in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean).

More to elaborate and put here, but I lack the drive to do so. Hope it helps and answers some questions / views.

[Terant]

4- For the sake of rich and balanced roleplay, everyone should take the time to read about their character´s race and take into great account the social upbringing that said character has recieved. If, for example, as a night elf, you have been brought up being told that orcs are evil and destructive, it wouldn´t make sense for your character to simply break away from that for no reason and be nice and cheery to orcs.

Night Elves wouldn't be nice and cheery to Orcs under just about any circumstances, but they certainly haven't been brought up being told they are evil and destructive since Orcs haven't been in Kalimdor for even a small portion of a Night Elf's childhood (Although this isn't really relevant. Now onto the real post.)

It's not that they have a deep hatred of other races, it's that their isolation from the rest of the world for thousands of years has caused them to be rather xenophobic. They are afraid of what these young and often stupid races could do to harm their supposedly perfect way of life.

As for the Human view of Night Elves, I think that they might crack a few racists jokes every now and then, but I doubt that any kind of negative feeling would go so far as violence against Elves. I think it's more that they see them as haughty and uptight.