Changes to Heroes and Grunts

[Jason]

I sawz her bank and bags screenshot.

I123235342 outfits.

T'was sexeh.

[Anski]

The immediate issue with starting out new characters at level 40 and giving them a lofty amount of Gold is what's stopping from players from creating multiple characters, rounding up the gold and walking off favorably richer than the Goblins?

[Grakor456]

Not all of the newbie quest gear is horrible looking either. There's a vest, boots, and belt, all cloth, given as quest rewards in the Valley of Trials that's dark blue. With a decent shirt and tuxedo pants, you can get yourself a fairly snazzy outfit right there. The only glitch is the twenty silver needed to buy the tailoring goods from Shatterspear.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Really not trying to be annoying, but what would be the problem with people actually getting a lot of gold? I could see if it was like... a blizzlike pve/pvp server. But it's for RP... the worst you could do is buy outfits. I really dont think it would unbalance the game, as people would have to seriously put in a lot of time to create a character, run out of the starting zone, to a city, mail themselves, delete, and repeat. I don't know, put some kind of gold cap on players that aren't grunts? Like they can only carry 300g or something? Just throwing out ideas.

[Grakor456]

Really not trying to be annoying, but what would be the problem with people actually getting a lot of gold?

Silver Tokens.

Normally I'd agree with you, I don't care how much gold players have, except for that one fact. We don't want to be forcing the Content GMs to summon up a hundred items for every character out there.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Well then... If the tokens are 350g, don't let non-grunts get it by capping gold at 300g?
Or just make the requirement to get the tokens being a grunt.
Or have a maximum number of tokens you can use if you're a non-grunt for a single account. Account binding? I'm not sure. I'd have to know more about your database to tell you specific ways on how you'd do that. But something along that lines I think would be nice... Or making everything from other vendors that don't sell silver tokens like 1copper... Or something.

[Rasma]

Also, server economy, if everyone can easily get as much gold as they want, what value does it have? It would no longer be a trade medium worth anything to pcs, and ruin one aspect of roleplay if abused, personally, I like starting level 1 with normal starting money. if you implement anything like that, please find a way to make it optional, I enjoy low level rp, and gaining things through earning them, and if you start at level 10 even, that is ten less levels to rp with, and you are starting seasoned. But that is just me.

[Grakor456]

Well then... If the tokens are 350g, don't let non-grunts get it by capping gold at 300g?
Or just make the requirement to get the tokens being a grunt.
Or have a maximum number of tokens you can use if you're a non-grunt for a single account. Account binding? I'm not sure. I'd have to know more about your database to tell you specific ways on how you'd do that. But something along that lines I think would be nice... Or making everything from other vendors that don't sell silver tokens like 1copper... Or something.

Nothing you're suggesting is really feasible.

There's no way to cap a character's gold max, especially not in a way as arbitrary as if someone's a grunt on the forums or not. Same with the way token sales are handled. I also don't want to "break" the game just for this (and I have seen people take item cost into account in their RP, so non-token item costs see some use.)

Kretol has a better idea of what may be possible, but right now it's a lot of talking about something that may or may not be an issue at all.

[Terant]

I'm going to add my two cents (real money ftw) on the issue of money/gold and levels. I honestly feel that in many cases, RP is more fun and realistic without being a high level, even if you continue to use low level gear. Part of the problem stems from the fact (it is definitely fact) that when a character is level 80, that character gets treated as if they are ICly more powerful or sometimes older than another character who is not yet approved but is supposed to be older and/or higher up in certain IC ranking systems.

For instance, I have been almost entirely unable to play my Kaldorei Priestess, Aleina, since she was approved several months ago. The reason? Well, she is a very young and inexperienced priestess who is not even technically an adult yet. Once she was approved, I was super excited and bought all these expensive sets of robes and other gear... Then I realized that none of the clothing suited her whatsoever, so I went back to wearing almost the exact same set she had on before getting leveled. Now, the problem is that because she was level 80, all the low level Night Elves I was RPing with completely changed their attitudes toward her! Suddenly, the level 40 who was lecturing Aleina before and trying to tell her what to do was almost intimidated by her presence. Some characters even asked for her to teach them to be a priestess and such because they assumed she was older and more experienced without bothering to check her profile (FlagRSP doesn't work for me. Never has, never will).

On the other end of the spectrum, Saanto the older and more experienced Draenei mage was treated as an apprentice before she was approved and leveled. This is the type of "level discrimination" that we're more familiar with, and I won't bother going into detail on this one because it kind of contradicts my original point. ops:

Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is something that has been said many times before. LEVELS AND GEAR DO NOT MATTER MUCH FOR RP. Yes, they do make it more enjoyable sometimes. Yes, they do make you feel better about your character. Yes, they often represent your character better. No, they are not essential. No, you do not have to wait to RP until your character has the perfect set of gear. Yes, many of the low level gear sets and items actually look better than a lot of higher level ones.

Now to go completely on topic and talk about the Hero and Grunt changes:
Hero- I agree with. The rank didn't do anything and we all know it.
Grunt- This is obviously tougher. There are many questions about how and when these changes will be implemented, and it is really too much to think on for now. I don't really have a strong opinion on it yet, but I'm sure I'll think of something to say about Grunt changes before this huge discussion is over. :wink:

If I missed recent points due to things posted after I started typing. Too bad, I'm not editing now. Nyehehe.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Grakor- Well. To an extent it is, but it would just require a bit of work. But yeah, I'm done with suggestionage now. I just kept throwing ideas out there because it sounded like you were genuinely interested... My mistake.
Ulteo- I disagree. If clothing doesn't matter, then can I rp my Paladin around in 'lock gear? Or a 'lock around in priest gear? No. It just looks odd. Clothing is a _very important_ part of roleplay, as it shows both personality, alignment, standing, and genuine overall feel of the character you are roleplaying with... If looks and clothing didn't matter, then why don't we all just forum rp?

For some reason I feel like this discussion is getting off topic, however, and should be moved to suggestions...

[Esthrunil]

My personal thoughts on the Grunt change?

If you think of it from the perspective that grunts never were actually meant to be something special or a higher class of RPers than Peons, it makes a -lot- of sense. We only saw Grunts as the higher cut of beef because they were the people who had three grunts before them say, "Hey. This person writes somewhat well, I enjoyed RPing with them, and they aren't a total arse. They quite obviously deserve to be with the others in the grunt grouping." Where, in reality, grunt was just a term for, "Person who has been here long enough to understand the Server and the Rules/Roleplay in an acceptable manner."

And, as it's been pointed out time and time again, this also made -peons- think, "Hey. These are people who have the ability to say that for ME. I should get with them to RP more so I can become one of them!"

Now that it can be a timed method of grunting, while there may be more people hopping into grunt status while they aren't the -best- RPers, we will hopefully see less of Peons trying to work up to the standard of a grunt for a single vouch. On top of this, I find that the best way to improve is to RP more and gain more experience with the server. Personally, I came to this server, got to be horrible for a few months and shaped myself up after I actually started to be more active in the community. It not only helped me improve my RP, but my writing as a whole and actually helped me in the development of characters and such, but I digress.

Do I support the new method? I can't say I don't. Do I outright refuse to accept it? No.

[Grakor456]

If I didn't care about the subject of newbie gear at all, I obviously wouldn't be making new characters to see just what's easily available. I could just zap myself a set if I wanted to, after all.

That's enough talking about it here, though. If someone wants to make a thread on that in GM Suggestions, feel free.

[Azheron]

I actually ment that...
Now now, If I would have an approved profile.
And I would have played about 3 months actively, then 2 non actively, then 1 month actively again, Would I still gain gruntship from the 3 months I played actively before almost quitting?

[Darksaber]

So with the current method of gruntification still in the balance, How would people get grunted as of this moment? Would they need the vouches or will the time-lock be pre-dominant?

[Rubykuby]

So with the current method of gruntification still in the balance, How would people get grunted as of this moment? Would they need the vouches or will the time-lock be pre-dominant?

The vouch system will be working as long as we don't have a new one.