Conquest of the Horde

Going to move this back on track.

The original post.

I've had the same experience as Xigo. You put people into an extraordinary situation, hoping for them to react accordingly, you don't force rolls, you try to set up a trusting area only for it to backfire. Xigo and I have talked about it previously, so he knows I share many of the same feelings that he has.

I have been sort of sitting here debating on what I want to say, hell, I actually wrote up a post only to go...'Where was I going with this?'

I'll just say that it comes down to people respecting each other, knowing how to be humble and trying to add some form of realism in this world, like meaningful deaths. If death was so...meaningless and so easily reversed, Van Cleef would be alive, the Lich King would be causing chaos and everyone would live in fear for the fact that baddies could never really go away.

Anyways.

Yes, we are, as that's how it's been for a while. While there are advantages and disadvantages, they should be worked out by people rather than dictated by numbers. The idea of fair chance is something that should be left up to people who -should- be able to maturely work it out.

As for the "power level" stuff, Dave, it's more often used for bad than good, which is why it's left up to an equal opportunity method. Don't assume because you're a DK, you can't get a pitchfork in the butt and be severly hurt, in other words.


Moving back on topic, (Although, the prestige stuff was brought up because it's often these classes that fall heavy into those tropes), I think that the best way to handle these situations is like any other situation... talk it out. Get a feel for what's going on. If it's -ambiguously- wrong, then you have the option of talking to the person, which is a nicer solution that can sometimes backfire or require more work, or you can alert the GMs, which feels more aggressive.

The best thing to do is openly communicate with others, however, keep in mind that saying one thing -has- to be one way can be severely narrow-minded, especially if there aren't any rules or standards set that back up what you are saying. In the case of outlandish powers or fighting techniques, there are some things you should keep in mind when doing them... weight distribution, physical prowess, weapon type, as well as previous history of your character. What training did they get? DID they get trained? Do they mimic what they do from experience rather than having mentors?

These are hard questions to answer. Sometimes, you don't think of this stuff and just... do it. It can work out, but to others it might look ridiculous. Again, this all leads to that sword, with it's two edges. One hand, you think it's fine and don't want to constantly second guess your RP, on the other, people are saying how silly it was, but you don't know it.


Edit: Basically... be understanding and communicate, like with anything else. Otherwise, noone will know your intentions.

Some characters don't logically deserve a fair chance though. And others deserve more.

Going back to having a bad time with rolling...

I rolled a 100 once to attack the final boss of an event. Did this big emote of my character throwing her hammer causing a holy explosion right under the boss... I got:

"The boss roars in anger"

Someone rolled a 4.

"The boss explodes and these named people are caught in the explosion."
Mine was included because she ran up to attack it...

Yeah, feels pretty bad to finally have good enough luck to roll really high, as high as possible in fact and then just get shrugged off as only making the boss angry while someone that rolled really high through the entire event is given the final kill even though they didn't even roll above the threshhold.

Now it's not me saying that's unfair, just how that can make a person feel would cause them to make their character do outlandish things when they get the chance. And honestly not many people have that much combat experience... most of my own experience is only from anime, and while I can use common sense to see that blowing up a city by hitting your swords together is beyond acceptable, it's still a fun thing to play a character that can do things normal people can't. And isn't the point of this server to have fun? I mean I didn't come here simply to progress a storyline of Lore that has already been continued beyond where we are at.

Flying through the air in a flurry of blades with your opponent?

No.

Saying a few lines before attacking?

Why not?

I know its called "WarCraft", but while we're roleplaying here, does fighting prowess really have to be the premiere facet of a character?

I don't want to think like that and I haven't been thinking like that, but am I wrong?
If not, then what can we, as a community, do to make it clear that on this server, character interaction, identity and development is the most important part of the experience?

I don't see it as massive nor as something to be done tommorow, but I much better get the sentiment and reasoning against the diea. I was seeing it as a one-profile-element fix to adress a few situations.

We evidently aim for the same thing: "Players should simply learn humility in battle and be willing to accept defeat on the grounds of making a better story for all involved."

But if something like this would polarize the community too much and break fundamentals, and if the rate of player-to-player-education is evidently not fast enough to create the above, what's a fix?

Edit: Speaking of agressive approaches, is "Annoyingly OP RP" an acceptable report reason?

(05-22-2012, 11:35 AM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]I'll just say that it comes down to people respecting each other, knowing how to be humble and trying to add some form of realism in this world, like meaningful deaths. If death was so...meaningless and so easily reversed, Van Cleef would be alive, the Lich King would be causing chaos and everyone would live in fear for the fact that baddies could never really go away.

*fangirl squeal*

Ooh, gurrrrl, tell 'em!

Edit:

Hmm it would appear people posted as I posted!

(05-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I know its called "WarCraft", but while we're roleplaying here, does fighting prowess really have to be the premiere facet of a character?

If your character is going to be fighting, the prowess of such should probably be important. If your character is not, then no. Seems to be a good rule of thumb.

(05-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I know its called "WarCraft", but while we're roleplaying here, does fighting prowess really have to be the premiere facet of a character?

I don't want to think like that and I haven't been thinking like that, but am I wrong?
If not, then what can we, as a community, do to make it clear that on this server, character interaction, identity and development is the most important part of the experience?

It's not the premiere facet of a character. It is simply the current discussion that is going on.

Somtimes, there isn't a fix. Sometimes, you just have to hope people read what's being written and give in to logic and maturity.

(05-22-2012, 11:39 AM)DaveM Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: Speaking of agressive approaches, is "Annoyingly OP RP" an acceptable report reason?

If it's so bad that you want to report them then it is probably Godmodding not being OP. Otherwise just talk to them about it.

(05-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]...make it clear that on this server, character interaction, identity and development is the most important part of the experience?

This is why I didn't offer a solution, only a suggestion on how to react. Dae sums up my feelings on RP in general, and to combat specifically.

It's okay to lose.

I've developed my characters more from losing fights/battles, than winning them.

tl;dr: People should understand their characters' fears and limits, be respectful to each other in defeat and victory, and, if it comes to that, especially climactic or ignominious deaths shouldn't always be casually reversed.

(05-22-2012, 11:45 AM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I know its called "WarCraft", but while we're roleplaying here, does fighting prowess really have to be the premiere facet of a character?

I don't want to think like that and I haven't been thinking like that, but am I wrong?
If not, then what can we, as a community, do to make it clear that on this server, character interaction, identity and development is the most important part of the experience?

It's not the premiere facet of a character. It is simply the current discussion that is going on.

the first part of my post was rhetorical, and I was meaning to imply that we should look at "power levels" and how we conduct our battles within the greater context of the RP experience.

Yes, being reasonable with characters fighting power is important for the sake of realism within the server, but I feel that the discussion of what should and should not be found within the server should be approached from the perspective of what makes the best roleplaying experiences for the whole of the server, not because of what's "Fair."
"Fairness" should be secondary to the equation, used only as an impartial guide for someone's roleplaying when impartial critical thinking cannot be applied to a scenario for whatever reason.

Playing overpowered characters and treating fighting unrealistically is Bad RP, and I feel that it should be handled in the same way we deal with any other Bad RP. If that's insufficient, we should improve our methods of dealing with Bad RP in general instead of concerning ourselves with systems of checks and balances that apply only to fighting and have caused more trouble than they're worth in the past.

(05-22-2012, 11:48 AM)Ural Wrote: [ -> ]It's okay to lose.

This. So much of my this.

Speaking from my own anecdotal experience for a moment, Voragh, probably the most combative of all my characters, managed to get more development out of the four fingers he lost than in any of the fights he won.

A lot of people underestimate how fun your character getting screwed over can be.

Rhetorical or not combat prowess is still not the #1 important piece to any character unless that is there only reason for being.

And I disagree that having an OP character is bad RP. If it makes sense then it makes sense. And punishing people for that just seems harsh as though you are trying to force people into having normal characters.

I have had people get mad at me before for saying not enough people play average characters, and have been told to just let people play as they wish. So why the sudden change now?

IC there are thousands of "Average" fighters. Thing is not everyone wants to play that kind of character. That's why we are playing WoW and not just some random medieval RP. If everyone on the server played an OP character, that wouldn't mean the world is full of super beings. Because there are far too many people to count that are just average NPCs.