Conquest of the Horde

(05-22-2012, 12:38 PM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone here is going to go "No he has to die the rolls said so suck it up and kill him off."

Unfortunately... that is how roll fighting works.

(05-22-2012, 12:40 PM)SachikoMaeda Wrote: [ -> ]Xigo, did you lose a fight recently to someone with fantastic anime powers? /sarcasm

No matter what a fight system will be flawed. It will be impossible to create accurately simply because there are so many factors to include:

Physics. You have to know force, materials, what's strong, what's weak, and a long equation.

Biology. You'd have to know the systems and how they'd respond to trauma as well as the work/force the bone and muscle structures bring about.

I think the solution to his may be simple.
WE ALL BECOME BIOLOGISTS AND PHYSICISTS AND PRODUCE EQUATIONS TO SEE THE OUTCOME OF WHAT MOVES DO AND DON'T WORK AND HOW MANY INJURIES IT TAKES TO SLAY THE OPPONENT.

We will start by genetically engineering a gnome and pit it against a Tauren, and then we will...

Common sense provides adequate knowledge on everything you need to make a fight a bit more realistic. Everybody knows that getting hit in the head with a warhammer -might- leave your character slightly groggy for a -fair- amount of time.

Quote:Characters that SHOULD win are ALWAYS 50/50
Characters that SHOULD NOT win are ALWAYS 50/50.
Characters that SOMETIMES win and SOMETIMES lose are ALWAYS 50/50.

...Nobody -should- win. Someone simply has, maybe, a higher chance of winning. But -NOBODY- should win. That's plain God-moding.

I rollfight because nobody knows who'll win. Because it's thrilling to be on the last 1 HP and the enemy has 4 and I manage to steal victory from the jaws of defeat. I like the feeling of occasional frustration and the glee of hard-earned victory.

Quote:I don't think anyone here is going to go "No he has to die the rolls said so suck it up and kill him off."

Correct. There's a whole Character Warning system in place to deal with character death, and even maiming and extreme damage.

(05-22-2012, 12:41 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2012, 12:38 PM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone here is going to go "No he has to die the rolls said so suck it up and kill him off."

Unfortunately... that is how roll fighting works.

Just give me one example of where someone on this server has forced someone else to honor a severe dice roll.

And I'm pretty sure that on this server, unless the real possibility of death is discussed before the encounter, the mortality of a character in an RP session is up to their player.

I'm not saying that someone that should win will win every time. I'm saying that even though someone can have a much greater advantage, and is supposed to have a much higher chance of winning due to their skill and power outmatching their opponent by a lot... it doesn't matter because no matter what you do it's 50/50. You don't even have a slightly higher chance of winning.

(05-22-2012, 12:47 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying that someone that should win will win every time. I'm saying that even though someone can have a much greater advantage, and is supposed to have a much higher chance of winning due to their skill and power outmatching their opponent by a lot... it doesn't matter because no matter what you do it's 50/50. You don't even have a slightly higher chance of winning.

This is something to be discussed on a case-by-case basis, I think. If one character clearly has the advantage in a roll fight, and it's bugging one participant, then it should be brought up. Personally, I think discussing handicaps in roll fights is perfectly reasonable. Although I didn't mention it at the time (because we weren't really talking HP), it's why Voragh dropped unconscious after three hits in our fight last night, considering the beating he'd took from Relarie and Jof'waz in the big free for all. I mentally gave him a handicapped HP score and decided that 100 finished him off.

It's important not to push something like that too far though, especially if the other player seems to think the characters are evenly matched. That's the unstated assumption of all 1v1 roll fights, although I prefer to put it down to what actually wins and loses these fights rather than character skill - luck. To use a previously mentioned example, Harold Godwinson was a king and a superlative fighter, but a stray arrow in the eye killed him as dead as any.

(05-22-2012, 12:45 PM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2012, 12:41 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2012, 12:38 PM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone here is going to go "No he has to die the rolls said so suck it up and kill him off."

Unfortunately... that is how roll fighting works.

Just give me one example of where someone on this server has forced someone else to honor a severe dice roll.

And I'm pretty sure that on this server, unless the real possibility of death is discussed before the encounter, the mortality of a character in an RP session is up to their player.

I can't give you that example because I have never seen anyone decline to accept a roll at all. I'm not saying "That's how it works" as in if you lose you have to die that's all there is to it. I mean the fact that if you lose a roll you lose a roll, that's all there is to it. We don't question that because we agreed to a roll fight in the first place.

(05-22-2012, 12:47 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying that someone that should win will win every time. I'm saying that even though someone can have a much greater advantage, and is supposed to have a much higher chance of winning due to their skill and power outmatching their opponent by a lot... it doesn't matter because no matter what you do it's 50/50. You don't even have a slightly higher chance of winning.

Then do trust fights whenever its reasonable, deal with a (possibly modified) roll system when its necessary, communicate about how you feel about the situation before and during the encounter and don't participate in RP that makes you uncomfortable.

That's pretty much the best we can do on this server.

Also it helps to support your fellow fighter too. Jidaeo pre-pre-restart lost like every fight. It was frustrating because to me I thought he was so cool and tough or w/e. But after a while I started just RPing him getting beat tf up, just to have him survive. (Nothing that he couldn't survive through) Which showed he was tough, and when he did win it made it that much more awesome. Also if you take a hit, adequately 9/10 the person you're RPing with win or lose will respect you more and even begin taking graver hits themselves. Look at yourself before you judge, if you get stabbed and you shrug it off, no one wants to take the fall for someone who's only looking after themself.

And Whether it's...

Regular Dude RP,
EPic RP,
Elf RP,
Tavern RP,
ERP.
OOCC RP.
Combat RP, ( Roll or trust )
Non-combat RP,
Civilian RP,
Good RP,
Evil RP,
Medival RP,
Fantasy RP,

As long as it's in the rules, we shouldn't try to separate ourselves further. We should just continue to have fun. We're entitled to our own opinions and preferences, but I think there are enough stigmas an classifications of 'real Rp' or 'credible RP'. It's why the server is cool, because we're from different backgrounds, nations, ethnicities, genders, with all different interests besides we -all- like RP, stories, or writing. I think we should take the positives of the other sides. It's why I feel the answer is purple. Maybe its time for your civilian character, or your average knight to go on an dangerous or 'epic adventure' and maybe its time for your adventurer, to fall in love, break an arm, fear something, or return from his adventuring to his average friends and family. I truly believe balance is key. RPing with people I wouldn't think to initially has had some extremely positive effects on my RP, and the way I look at RP in general. Some cases have left me with sour tastes as well, and it has never been because a character was 'Too Average'. Average chars can be boring but they never become impractical or impeding on the RP, nor do they break immersion.

(05-22-2012, 12:56 PM)Dae Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2012, 12:47 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying that someone that should win will win every time. I'm saying that even though someone can have a much greater advantage, and is supposed to have a much higher chance of winning due to their skill and power outmatching their opponent by a lot... it doesn't matter because no matter what you do it's 50/50. You don't even have a slightly higher chance of winning.

Then do trust fights whenever its reasonable, deal with a (possibly modified) roll system when its necessary, communicate about how you feel about the situation before and during the encounter and don't participate in RP that makes you uncomfortable.

That's pretty much the best we can do on this server.

Pretty much this. I'm not 100% sure about this, but an educated guess is that you're here to entertain yourself and participating in RP you're not comfortable with is not very entertaining and should be avoided if at all possible. It's you who choose your own RP and nobody can tell you what to do with your characters but you.

And like I said, I prefer a modified rolling system with a bit of trust in it. Like with Vyxen, my Draenei sniper. If the player of my opponent agreed on it, she'd get a roll boost on long range attacks but suffered a very heavy penalty on all close range rolls, because she simply -sucks- in close range.

Personally I think one of the biggest issues in this discussion thus far is what 'average' is.

Allow me to rephrase then as 'Average in the Warcraft setting'. Not average in real life. Average for Warcraft is how we might envision a soldier IRL. Competent to hold their own, usually. To play a peasant or a farmer is to be below average for me. Average should be the guys who accept bounty hunts for munsters lurking around the woods, and fight bandits for the locals or something. -Adventurers-. By no means am I saying John Doe should walk up and be on par with his rake and threatening straw hat.

See, and this is what bothers me when this sort of thing is discussed. The arguments many people make simply... don't happen. I've never seen someone playing a farmer try and take down a battle-hardened warrior. I've never seen someone playing a combat inexperienced gnome try to take down a Tauren. I've seen scrappy adventurers charge at orc warriors and engineering-savvy gnomish rogues combat dance around a Tauren until the thing falls down. The people who usually make below-average characters do not use them for combat often, and to use that as an example is a bit of a strawman argument to me-- taking the absolute bottom of the barrel and presenting it like it is the common occurance.

Usually people create characters that have combat experience, and usually those are the characters in combat. Please stop discussing the very rare instances and focus on the actual way combat tends to be carried out on the server if we're to proceede with argument along this line.

(On another note, concerning rolls-- I hate them. Which might be humorous to hear, as I use them a lot. But my events tend to be a bit hectic for all involved, and its simply the best way to handle things. You lose a roll? Sorry-- there's fifteen other people waiting, and I really need to keep things moving. You hit really hard and I don't emote it how you want? Again, sorry-- these events tend to take two hours, and by the end people -might- be pining for the conclusion.)

EDIT: I am actually aware of the event you were referencing, Aadora. In the case of the final hit everything occuring is factored in. As in, everyone hits, and the result is due to the action of all involved. To clear that up.

Aadora Wrote:And then what is the point of even having a Blademaster or anything such as that, when it doesn't matter HOW you fight.

A million reasons, which all revolve around things that aren't combat related. I don't know anyone that plays X class to win in a fight, they play it because of the social implications, the respect (or lack of), the non-combat abilities, the personality affects given by it, etcetc.

There's more to RP than winning fights, which doesn't seem apparent to some people in this thread.

(05-22-2012, 01:12 PM)Vee Wrote: [ -> ]

Aadora Wrote:And then what is the point of even having a Blademaster or anything such as that, when it doesn't matter HOW you fight.

A million reasons, which all revolve around things that aren't combat related. I don't know anyone that plays X class to win in a fight, they play it because of the social implications, the respect (or lack of), the non-combat abilities, the personality affects given by it, etcetc.

There's more to RP than winning fights, which doesn't seem apparent to some people in this thread.

Again, this.

Character development is the most important thing about RP, according to me and a -lot- of other people here. However, combat is a very, very effective way to develop a character but to be honest, your character develops -much- more from losing a fight than he does winning it. Just like sometimes when you win, you lose, you can also sometimes win when you lose.


Oh my, I'm vocal in this thread. I blame it on absolute boredom.

Prestige classes are meant to shape your character, not make them powerful.

edit: How do we keep diverging from the original topic?

(05-22-2012, 01:25 PM)Rensin Wrote: [ -> ]edit: How do we keep diverging from the original topic?

Keep this on topic or, so help me God, I will start Enforcing the shizz out of people.