Death Kittens...or Knights. Whichever you want to call them.

[garrett]

Well, as the title of this thread says, Death Kittens!

Or not. Actually it's about Death Knights and some information I need on them.

Now, before I go any farther, let me state this. I've heard the argumentsn game from a friend, about how the Knights of the Ebon Blade are all "RAWR, You Death Knight. You Belong With Us. You Not With Us, You Rogue, You DIE!"

So please, if that's all you have to go on about, save it.

Anyways, moving right along.

I've read some of the threads in the Class-related and Lore boards. Some helped me, some didn't. Thus, this question thread.

I would appreciate any that could offer an answer could also point me out to where the answer would have come from. I have some of the Warcraft RPG books, but I dunno which to hunt through, or if I have them downloaded.

1) Alive or Dead?
So, this question was brought up. From what I can understand, 2nd generation Death Knights were alive, but sold their souls to the Lich King to become Death Knights. 3rd Generation DK's were people killed by the Scourge and risen as DKs.

Now, what are the limits on this? Could 2nd Gen DK's exist? Or is that not allowed on the server. I guess the answer to that would answer this next part, if they can be played, obviously they were freed with the KotEB after Light's Hope Chapel. But besides the dead paladins that were risen, and those who sold their souls, is it allowable that someone was captured and forcefully turned as a 2nd gen?

For the 3rd gen, some of the same questions. Rather than being killed by the Scourge, could they instead be captured? And finally, in making a DK, you have the freedom to decide if they are alive or dead, rotting or fully fleshy, etc?


Now for the question that could be controversial...

2) DK's and the Knights of the Ebon Blade
From what I saw yesterday, Piken is in favor of DK's all being hip deep in the Ebon Blade, else they are described as a rogue. While Grakor said that the playable DKs were part of the Ebon Blade, but at the same time they weren't required to be all up in arms with the group on every little thing. ((Sorry Grakor, best I can word it. You did a better job I know.))

So my questions on this are, what are the limits. I'm aware of the KotEB guild on the server, but it's not a mandatory thing is it? I can have a DK that's part of the Ebon Blade, without exactly being in the guild group, yes?

Also confusing is what exactly constitutes a rogue. I have heard that the EB would hunt down and kill all rogue DK's, and that any DK not in the group is considered a rogue.

The reason I'm bringing all this up is that I want a DK. I've never gotten to play one, and I want it. BAD. But I'm all about the free will. I like to have some choice in things, and while my DK is going to be all about fighting the Scourge, I'm not so sure about being a 100% member of the Ebon Blade. I'd rather be sort of a fringe member, and that mostly because I don't want to have to constantly deal with player-DK's tracking me down screaming rogue-this or rogue-that.

I've been toying with a guild idea, with my DK as the head of the snake, in a manner of speaking. While there will be close affiliation with the KotEB, I'd rather have autonomy over the guild. So that, while the group is with the Ebon Blade, and Highlord Darion is going to have the ultimate authority still, for the most part, my group acts as it will to destroy the Scourge, without having to fall under the orders of those within the KotEB player-guild.

Which is mainly what led to the half-hour or so discussion in game.

Realistically, the guild is basically just a branch of the Ebon Blade. It's sort of like the army. Darion's the general. The KotEB is Battalion A, my guild, if it's successful, is Battalion B. There may be some competition to see who can kill Scourge better, but there's really not much cause for conflict, although there probably would be opportunities for some political maneuvering.

[Vrahn]

Well, I've heard a few different stories from different sources and yeah, to be honest, they all conflict with each other. Thus personally I go along with the story that all 3rd Gen DKs are indeed undead. Also, yes only 3rd Gen DKs are playable on this server as second generation DKs are too powerful and I don't know of any cases where they have ever broken from the Lich King. You don't actually have to be in the Knights of the Ebon Blade guild itself, when people go rogue hunting it's generally when a DK does something counter-intuitive to the goals of the Ebon Blade. As for your concept, the Ebon Blade is the entire faction, not a subsect. If you were going to run your own subgroup it might be better to just take on the Ebon Blade tag, as far as I know it's fallen into moderate disuse lately.

[Harmonic]

What Vrahn said is absolutely correct. The only way the Ebon Blade would but in is if you are setting a bad example as a DK, such as killing wontonly or so on.

[Grakor456]

The timing of this post is actually rather humorous, as these are things we're discussing GM-side as well, since there's some disagreement on how they should be handled.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes though. I'll say that the official stance on "are DKs alive or dead" is "it depends on the DK." I play Balgarn as being (mostly) alive, just with a freaky skin and hair color.

[garrett]

That's not too likely. I was planning on the guild being heavy into honor.

In regards to the 2nd gen, I've been scouring google just now, hunting down and DK lore I could come across.

One place had talk where:

When the 3rd Gen DK's were mass produced for the assault on New Avalon, some 2nd Gen's were sent along with them. Since it was all just for fodder anyways.

But if that's out, it's out. Not such an entirely big deal.

On to a new question. Nobles.

I realize that it requires GM permission to play a noble. I was wondering at the information surrounding such things.

The idea I had was for a noble lady, with her own background and such before becoming a DK. During the time playing the character, she retains the noble name, but it wouldn't really count for much of nothing anymore, given that she was presumed dead when she never came back.

Would this be as restricted as playing a full noble with titles and lands? About all I'd have is the family name, and probably the title of "Lady".

What would the requirements be on this? Permission to post a special profile in the special section?

Edit: Yeah, that's how I would rather play things. I dunno yet whether I'll have my character be alive, and having been turned like Arthas was, or to be something of an alive/dead mix, kind of floating in between. I haven't decided fully yet.

[Grakor456]

I realize that it requires GM permission to play a noble.

As far as I'm concerned, the main big deal is if you're so noble that people take notice and move aside when ordered. If you're in some small-name noble family that no one has ever heard about, it's not going to bother me. One of the content folks who does the profile checking is free to speak up here, though, if there's an actual hard rule on this that I missed.

[garrett]

I hate snobby noble people. When I see them in stories, I root for the ones that stick their face in the mud.

Part of that is in my upbringing I suppose. I live on a farm, 15+ miles from the nearest cities. Which isn't that much, compared to those on ranches and such out west. But this is all I've ever known.

Anyways, pretty much just noble enough at this point to have the family name. Probably the desire to be addressed as "Lady <name>" on formal occasions. Nothing really beyond that. Probably some land that once belonged to the family, but since she was the last in the line, without an heir, it reverted to the crown, or was sold off to someone else.

And so all she has is the name and the desire for the title, and whatever armor and weapons.

Moving right along..what is the ruling on DK's being ICly in Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms, or Outland. While I know they would be concentrating on Northrend, in the event that they have to go to one of those places (and offhand I don't have any reason right now, but if it comes up I'd like to be prepared) what would the IC actions be?

I'm pretty sure that if they had their faces exposed, the peasants of Azeroth would likely be frightened, but if their head is covered over, is there any kind of aura effects exuding from them, that would give people some indication as to what they were?

Or is it simply that, as long as you remain unobtrusive and have any bodyparts that might be seen as undead or unnatural concealed, you could visit Stormwind, or Orgimmar, or Undercity?

[Vrahn]

Well that entirely depends on if we take it that the strange voice and glowing eyes are IC or merely fluffy bits Blizzard added. Personally I think that if you're playing a DK of the living variety your eyes wont be glowing and your voice will be normal, however if you're undead depending on your state they might have a glow, and your voice would take on a raspier quality simply because you are dead. Apart from that, undead DKs have radical personality changes that can possibly be detected upon in long conversations, and paladins who bothered to use sense undead for some strange reason would get a weird feeling when around you. (Mind you strictly speaking sense undead is a cone spell, but lets not get into the agruement of how it functions ICly. :P).

Overall a lot of people play it as being able to blend in, and I'd assume they can do so reasonably well. ICly, your character is free to call themselves whatever they wish for a family name. In generally most things are fine as long as you don't expect NPCs to automatically treat you better than most, or listen to your every word. I don't see why a DK couldn't theoretically end up... well anywhere. But it's a question of their motive.

[garrett]

Personally I think that if you're playing a DK of the living variety your eyes wont be glowing and your voice will be normal

I dunno about this. I read somewhere that the glow in the eyes was the DK's soul.

Whether or not that is true, Arthas is a good enough example. He was alive and became a Death Knight. And since his eyes glow, it would stand to reason that other living ones could have glowing eyes.

Somewhere I browsed said that the glowing eyes was a representation of the Death Knight's soul.

I had forgotten about the voice difference. But it could probably slide some, if the DK weren't speaking often.

On to a new topic. Sorry to be posting up so much stuff, it's just really hard to acquire good knowledge on some of this stuff. Either the questions aren't being asked, or the lore commonly found only talks about the basic stuff.

Runeblades. Are they like a symbiotic extension of the Death Knight? Or are they simply a preferred weapon that has been enchanted to their preference. Once a Runeblade has been crafted, would the DK change to a new one at a later time, given a reason to do so.

This would be the style of runeblade given to the Death Knight, would it not?

I ask because in the base runeblade page on WoWwiki, it reads as follows:

All high-ranking death knights wield their own personal, named runeblade, called vampiric runeblades.

[Vrahn]

Perhaps they would glow if you're alive, I honestly have no real resource that proves either way. However if this is true then you would likely need some glasses, considering a hood wont hide glowing eyes.

In regards to runeblades, generally speaking they are tools specific to the Death Knight who wields it. They wont change their blade unless they are unable to re-aquire their current one, suggesting that they do have a preference for their own blade, however they are perfectly capable of useing another person's runeblade as well. In essense, it's just like a knight's weapon. Although they will perform better with a blade they are used too, they wont be too hindered if given a different sword.

[garrett]

I know, that was something I was looking to tie in with the history of the character.

The sword they start with would just be the one that obtained while under the dominion of the Lich King.

However, I was thinking that, with the nobility of blood could come something of a family sword, that could have been lost. It would be in the interest of the character to retrieve the sword to use.

To further that line of thought, would a runeblade be able to be fractured and reforged anew? I saw that Kaelthas had one done like that, and was contemplating how that could work to my advantage on this, where I took the scourge blade, and the family blade and reworked them into a new one.

[Vrahn]

Well it depends. Typically, especially with undead, they wont really care about a family blade. They have a new weapon that they are just as much attached too. In regards to shattering and reforging, I guess it'd be possible, but again I'm not sure they would even care enough to do it.

[Kaghuros]

You can just carve runes onto any blade, so I'd think that finding the heirloom and customizing it into a runeblade would make the most sense. In my plot Alia found the blade she wielded as a Paladin during the Third War and had that reforged (Then carved unholy and frigid runes into it.). Of course, she has a deep-seated need to rediscover her emotions, which is one of the drives behind her character, and finding the blade was supposed to bring back some of her humanity.

[garrett]

Alright, I'll keep that in mind while shaping the character of my...character. *cough*

Alright, last question xD

I know this has been said, but I can't recall the answers, and it'll help me out.

Given the current time on the server, how long ago was the battle where the Ebon Blade knights split from the Scourge and rejoined the Alliance/Horde.

And to go along with that time, what would be the time frame for when Arthas began creating his death knights?

If that's too confusing, I need the dates like this:

Arthas begins creating Death Knights (Year: #) --------------- The Battle of Light's Hope Chapel/Split of the DK's (Year: #) -------------- The Current Year.

[Piken]

Just as a small note: The EB guild is simply for the tag. It's a vanity(I think that's the word) title kinda thing. I've never claimed that Vincent is a high-ranking soldier in the Ebon Blade. He himself is very strict. He was a soldier in life, it passed on into his undeath, especially since what went on before the DKs were betrayed. His views are that -all- Death Knights should be in Northrend, or somewhere where there are Scourge, fighting and battling them. He also takes a great pleasure in hunting down any he feels are traitors or deserters. If they aren't traitors, he tells them to get back into service and quit doing nothing, usually because they're in some city and acting like a fool and attracting unneeded attention to DKs as a whole and give them a bad reputation. Back to the guild thing, the ranks mean nothing in the guild. I've told everyone in guild(That I've spoken with); ranks have no meaning. The only reason I'm guild master is because I wanted to make the title/guild so it'd be easier to organize DK RP.

That's not a 'small' note, but you get the idea.