The Direction of CotH

[Tarne]

I must say, I agree with Moose COMPLETELY! Just not get carried away with power, then its great.

I've always wanted to make my own private server with a circle of friends, If only I knew how to do so. I would make it so we started from the very beginning, right after Warcraft 3. My friends and I would RP from Classic WoW all the way up to present and above as time went by, so we could really get the full experience.

We would down all the classic bosses and dungeons, and fight all the battles and wars. Alas, I am not tech savvy

[Darkneon]

In a personal opinion, I'd like to see new and more freedom on just how much your character can develop. My biggest fear is that we rely on WoW Lore so much that we'll be lost when it's all done. When the Plaguelands have been cleared, the Lich King is dead, and the Burning Legion is pushed back into the Outland. This might seem far, but it's already beginning.

I believe we create roleplay for ourselves. Personalizing the lore of CotH, because that is what seperates us from everything else. Though, how can we do that if everything is going to require a GM's absolute focus? They're busy enough, and are more so here to make sure our roleplay experience is as enjoyable as possible.

I suggest a balance between hero figures and the common man. The system puts us all in the same category, but we're not all the same. Not everybody wants the troubles and stress of being an important figure, and not everybody wants to be some nameless warrior. What I do like, though, is how we all start off with absolutly no reputation and we have to work inorder to make a name for ourselves. Wether it be Archmage or that old veteran from the First War who lives down on Elywnn Avenue.

When you look at civilization, every leader is driven by personal goals. This creates conflict, and conflict creates story. These could be goals for both the benefit of one's self and one's country. Either way, every influencial event cannot get along without the direct involvement of a GM, nowadays. These players that gain reputation and pursue goals will need the help of those players that have goals on a smaller-scale. By this, we will create our own lore and maybe even introduce a new enemy or alliance into the Warcraft universe; rather then relying on the Scourge and Burning Legion completely. It's our sever, and I say we use it!

In the words of Andrew Carnegie, "It will be a great mistake for the community to shoot the millionaires, for they are the bees that make the most honey, and contribute most to the hive even after they have gorged themselves full." Roleplay is our honey, but there's more than one kind of bee.

Edit: "...event cannot get along with the direct involvement..." *with to without

[HownDoog]

I just have to say Moose pretty much said exactly what I was thinking.

I've known a few players, myself included, who were afraid to play a certain character in fear that they'd be denied or too harshly judged. Don't get what I'm saying wrong; godmoding/metagaming and all that jazz are fun busters for everyone else except the one doing it. It is quite the RP turn off. But I've actually heard a player say they wanted to be a higher character because they felt it would be fun and interesting, but yet they didn't because they wouldn't be allowed.

But on the flipside, there has to be a bit of regulation. If we allow anyone, then all of those...eh...less than agreeable players will be running around abusing their manifested power and just being unrealistic in any form.

That's my slapped together thoughts.

[Diethe]

Eh...do we really have to be like that other server full of demigods and people who drip power from their sweat?

Anyway, I think we have to be powerful with a sense of reason. We have to earn our powers. Yes, we start with really nothing at all from scratch with our character profiles. That's what the Prestige Titles are for, right? If we follow rules of D&D perhaps. Our starting characters would be Level 1 Warriors, then as soon as we reach Prestige Class we get to be Level 3 Warriors, Level 1 Berserkers for example (Still, Footmen and Grunts are Level 4. It makes sense since they really are soldiers by profession). If we have to, make storylines and such. The thing is, we really can't let some newly created character get such powers and have someone who worked hard for their character lose easily.

Now about the bringing down dragons and such? Sure. Just make sure to bring probably 10 people and a really good plan and storyline to bring down that dragon. Getting a rope to bring him down, while archers shoot at him, etc...that's what I call a great RP experience. Basically, in my opinion you can do anything lore wise like destroying a dragon as long as you have a long list of explanations to do. The GMs have been doing it even if they don't need an explanation. As long as no one abuses it and you don't use it sort of to destroy a row of players of the opposing faction in battle, yeah.

[Vrahn]

Not going to make a long reply here, as I have read everyone else's threads and they generally seem to have the same idea that I agree with.

Some players enjoy playing powerful characters, some players do not, and often these players end up taking heat from each other. My personal opinion is that if you use your wit and play the right cards you should be able to rise in power and prestige through in game activities. The world would be very static if we were to completely abolish the ability to grow in those respects. Right now CoTH is a community that heavily leans towards characters that are not powerful, but we do need important characters to help forward events. Does that mean OP? Not necessarily, power can take on a lot of different forms. The ability to unite people together as Walluce has during the Troll Island events, or Tales' Stromgarde event only happened because a character stepped up to the plate.

I personally do enjoy to have characters with some power, and that is just my preference, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But I also don't think there is anything wrong with people who want to play an ordinary character as well. Ultimately what I think is really important to remember and sometimes a really difficult thing to learn when you set out is how and when to exercise the power that you do hold if you're in a position of such. More than anything else you have to look at the other people that are going to be impacted by you and accommodate what they want as well as what you want because otherwise things get messy.

Ultimately I suppose what I am trying to say is that power is a necessity, but if you have it you should look to yourself to police it. There are numerous things you could do that sometimes would be the logical option, but it might be necessary to avoid them for the sake of other players, that is how power is managed, by the player, not any restrictions placed by the staff.

So yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing CoTH open up a bit more on its' player base as long as people can understand and manage the power they find themselves with.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

[Diethe]

I HAS IDEA!

Rather than being another 'I agree' post, here's a suggestion!

Alright, most of us agree that we want some more power for our character. Yes. I agree. But I think we have to earn it. You can't have a new character just fresh out Approval to be as strong as a decorated character who's been through events and storylines.

Since Prestige Classes needs lots of work and storyline to work on to be valid, maybe we can have different categories of powerful stuff that can be made valid through the same application to a GM?

If you want to own a dragon, or if you want to own an abomination perhaps, make a storyline of how you befriended this dragon through an application to a GM.

Now, if you want to own some sort of OP-looking weapon, do the same, but perhaps less word count. Maybe we can even have word count as the basis here.

Might I also consider if you want something spawned for your guild (For example), you have to explain it through a word-count storyline, too?

[Kaghuros]

I have to say that a great deal of good points have been brought up here. Right now, all I can give is a short story and a bit of commentary on rising to power on CotH.

The dust storm had settled in Durotar, but everywhere else the winds of hatred stirred the blood of Orcs. It was this knowledge that brought melancholy to one Grunt's heart. He was on leave, but his soul always remained in Ashenvale. With the recent campaign grinding onwards towards a standstill, he almost wished something would happen...

Humble beginnings are often what make a character. To rise in status you need to do something, but to be in the right place at the right time you need to have a reason to be doing nothing better. Will an Archmage be frequenting Ratchet? There's not much of a chance for that, but there are damn sure a lot of off-duty Grunts or out of luck adventurers.

...It was just his luck, then, that something did occur... Or perhaps you could say an ill fate brought what he wanted at a price. The Scourge invaded the Goblin town, bringing a crushing Horde down on the place and then leaving a sizeable garrison. This was something the Horde couldn't stand, and this warrior would be damned if he stood anywhere but the frontlines. As a group of adventurers and mercenaries, incensed by either the defiling of their home or the threat to the Horde, charged towards the town, the Grunt made sure he was at the fore. The battle was bloody, and Kaghuros retreated with wounds that prevented him from fighting for months to come.

For that, he might have gone unnoticed, but as he ran he was able to send word to the advancing Warsong forces of the attack. By pressing the advantage, the day was won, and those brave few who held the gap were lauded as honored among the Horde. The Grunt received his second tour in Ashenvale once he'd recovered, just what he desired.

Take a few battle scars, survive something epic. You're here to roleplay, and when something big happens, and you're in the mess of it, you'll be rewarded. Veterans of the Scourge attacks, veterans of Gnomeregan, and many others. The heroes of the Silvermoon Rebellion are but the few most recent members of a long line of normally minor players who banded together to make the day for the true heroes of Warcraft.

The campaign was endless, and the brutality the Orcs wrought was constrained just as little in scope. Ashenvale was a bloodbath on both sides, a place that had claimed the lives of many Orcish families, and this day could have claimed his. The arrows had pierced him in the shoulder and stomach, but with a helping hand from the Shaman of the Warsong he would live... He would live, but he viewed the world in a different way now. Wallowing in that pool of his own blood, he knew what it felt like to die. This was what he did to so many, and the "vengeance" he carried out so mercilessly on even the innocent. He was no better than the Legion for his slaughter.

Sometimes things are too much for a character to comprehend, and they wreak terrible swaths of damage on the psyche. These events, as well as joyous occasions and fulfilling conclusions help shape what a character is to become. Do you already have fame? Perhaps your fame brought you to a place where you were humbled or brought near death. Perhaps you lived in anonymity and found a true passion. This is where your story starts anew, and you advance your skills towards something else.

The story is mine, from the first major event post-Wrath to Kaghuros' Spirit Champion training. Everything you do, all that your characters can become, is born solely from the telling of your story. If you don't sing the songs of your deeds, and you don't turn your triumphs into heroism, how can you expect to become something more? Status doesn't give itself to those who wait, it is taken by those who seize moments and make sacrifices to weave their own story.

TL;DR: Your character is what you make of him or her, and everything you can ever expect to do, especially on CotH, has never been dependent on the system. It can be changed, and it probably should be, but if you can't find a way to make yourself heroic through participation in the server, the fault is yours and yours alone.

[Kaelvan]

*cracks knuckles*

In the beginning, when I came here. Total n00b. Didn't do any WoW RP before this besides Echeloned for a short time before and after. This was my starting place, basically. I didn't know how to emote. Had to ask someone a month later when I wasn't so afraid of getting shunned. The RP was alright. But it was un. Stormwind getting taken over? Very.. very fun. I enjoyed alot of CotH after the break. But I started to drift. Azshara, mostly. The RP was fine for several months. But several months ago, I really got bored. It was the same stuff day in and day out. Roll fights, Tavern RP. Racial hatred or inter-racial friendship. In my eyes, atleast. CotH became too much of a machine. You did one thing, and thats all you really did. Except for that event that happened once every month if luckyme to abandon the server. . I got bored, and I left. I also took a few players with me.

To me, CotH was a great place to start. However, the lack of options for me lead to my departure. Alot of people know this, I assume. That I am no longer with the server. Nor will I be, mainly because I don't find it enjoyable. I think the idea is there. However, the direction of CotH hasn't looked good to me for months. I think there needs to be alot more options for players, and what they play. CotH became not-so-fun. It was more of a job to keep up with.

[Dotsy]

What I can make out from the replies in this thread, and what I know allready, is:

-CotH was once more leniant towards power of characters.

-Obviously, it went too far.

-Regulations were put into place. (Vouching, Special Profiles, Prestige Classes)

-Regulations were toned done. (Grunts allowed to go Prestige. End of Vouches)


What I'm getting at is: Yes, there are less exceptions to power now-a-days. But that is a good thing, in my opinion. If every character was allowed to become a sort of demi-god from the start, then there would be virtualy no more creativity involved in character creation. A few may say "that won't happen", but it has happened, otherwise we wouldn't have the rules and regulations that still exsist. More events and more opportunities for heroes to rise would be nice, and I think the fact that prestige titles are available to anyone who has been here for over a month should satisfy those who wish to have more options. When everyone is superhuman/special, no one is.

The current direction of the server, I think, is a pretty good one:

-"CotH prides itself on realism", as someone once put it. He continued: "the people that are overpowered are lore characters, which should be enough in the world."

-Power and positions can be gained through RP after some time, not all of a sudden.

Edit: Small details such as the time it takes to travel, and carnivorous animals not being allowed in towns and cities should be payed attention to much less than before.

[PiesOfNub]

I'm going to make this short and sweet, because I'm as tired as.. A dead guy.

I believe that CotH DOES pride itself on realism, and I find that perfectly fine. However, realism also brings along rules. Consider the rules of physics, for example. They're realistic, but they bring along rules that act as a bottleneck regarding the fun and enjoyment we can shove down the bottle that is CotH.

Perhaps, instead of being a bottle, CotH should be a jar. And how is this possible? Quite easily, my dear friend. An application to get access to this jar! Now, let the Peons get the bottle for the time being, and perhaps give the Grunts the jars? The reason I say this, is because jars are more fragile than bottles. And if something's fragile, it WILL break sooner or later when put into the wrong hands. So, replace it with a bottle for the time being. It's just as good, only with a few restrictions!

...

Wait, what? Did I just use glasswear to explain CotH..?

EDIT: I know this is sort of like the current system, but.. Bigger jars, plox?

[Shane]

Everyone pretty much said what I wanted to but one thing I wanna add is that having different and unique characters is better than having special ones. If you wanna make your guy someone special you need to rp him accordingly.

To give an example, look at Walluce's character Raka, he didn't go about proclaiming that he was some kinda hero to be reverred but now IC-ly every troll respects him and Raka's become the leader of the Echo guys. To me that is what good rp is about. If you want to make your character stronger, treated as a hero you need to go out there an ddo stuff that makes 'em treat you that way. And we also have the Prestige Title thingy now.

On a personal note I would like to see well thought out and unique characters rather than some overpowered guys who go about act as stuck up derps.

[Dotsy]

Agreed, most people do deserve some more permissions. But like said before, I think it's best the way we're going. (Applications for prestige titles, and such) If you look at it a bit longer, there actually is more available to grunts than every before since the restart. (Which was originaly available to Heroes and GMs only)

[Kaelvan]

Agreed, most people do deserve some more permissions. But like said before, I think it's best the way we're going. (Applications for prestige titles, and such) If you look at it a bit longer, there actually is more available to grunts than every before since the restart. (Which was originaly available to Heroes and GMs only)

Not entirely true. Heroes came after the 2.4.2-3.0.1 TBC-WotLK restart thingeh.

[DaveM]

0. To me, replying to OP without reading the other posts is kinda' rude.

1. Realism rocks.

2. Epicness rocks.

3. Players spoiling other players' RP through OPness doesn't rock.

4. Giving GMs even more to review beyond profiles and intros and all that might not rock too much.

5. You can write your arse off, stack prestige and story posts, you're not auto-pwning my character.

6. If I'm armourless, carrying a crate of gold, with my back turned to you as you slam your axe into my back, you are KTFO-ing me.

My conclusion is that everything will be great, to whatever powerlevel we inch up to, so long as:
A. No PC can demand advantages over another PC.
If nobody concedes any sort of weakness in a situation (good RPers should - mutually), you roll it out. That simple. Your dragonborn got pwned by my druid apprentice. About 50% odds. Ready for that? Happens all the time in them books.

B. You have to want to make a good story.
And a good story can be ruined by your desire to get something done.
(Except it's not you - it's your character!)

B.1. You have to have strengths and weaknesses: Your Dwarven Mountain King will not outrun and catch up with that Troll Assasin - but if you ever get him into the arena, chances are he's getting pwned. (And no, a split personality that acts more badass than than the first one is not a weakness - it's a mary sue - make sure everyone would find it a weakness)

B.2. You have to take into account the situation. Rolls are a great way to insure equity, but not after you've powermoted killing someone, taking their crate of gold and running with it to your horse, and then demand a roll when the guard axes you in the back.

Edit: (If the amount of writing is correlated with the powerlevel -over other PCs- of a character, I'd rreally like the GMs to say it explicitly. I think it'd be a bad idea.)

[Hawk]

Note: Only read Grak's OP and skimmed through a couple of replies.

Whilst there would be a few initial problems (and by a few, I think a lot, IMO)... I do agree. Though I'm actually not too bothered about the current system, I wouldn't mind a bit of flexibility.

Things such as roll fighting the environment don't take on the fact how much combat experience their character has, and you often have people surviving the Wars and having vast amount of fighting experience end up getting their ass whooped by Defias Bandits.

The problem is, we need to avoid crossing the line where suddenly everyone is special, and the person who wants to roll the average joe thief has been forced to die because the guy who found them kills Scourge and Demons by the dozens everyday whilst eating a jam sandwich. Obviously exaggerating, but you get my point.