The Direction of CotH

[Khalista]

We have arenas that null out magic, how hard is it in a magic world to create arenas that handicap people to level the playing field between them?

Dice are the deciding factor in any combat situation not based on trust. A mugger vs a great hero of Northrend, the mugger could still get lucky in the fight, the difference would be in the types of combat maneuvers open to them. The mugger may only know how to jump and stab at someone where as the hero knows how to catch and pin people. The hero in a trust battle should win, the mugger should lose, dice make it an even chance.

In my opinion if you decide to make your character a great hero of the whatever or the archmage of awesome, you are voluntarily setting your character on a higher level and as has been said already in the thread, that isn't always a good thing. You are setting yourself up to only be able to properly RP with those of equal standing to you.

I wouldn't expect someone renown throughout the Horde to be hanging out in a tavern in Crossroads, I'd expect him to be in Northrend or on leave back to Orgrimmar or one of the other major places. If she goes out of her way to find an obscure place to hang out and relax, she's foregoing her reputation to have it.

Someone that fights demons picking a fight with someone who needs allies to help them beat a zombie is rather like an adult beating up on a little kid. It would be embarrassing and pointless. Now if the mugger picks the fight, well.. some people just get unlucky and hit the wrong mark.

[sunflower]

I'm going to post a reply to the first message of this topic. However, yes I did read all of the replies.
There are some things I noticed. A lot of Grunts replied to this post, but not much Peons. Is this a sign or...? However, I'm a Peon replying and therefor I hope this will not make all of you raise your eyebrows

1. I see a lot of people talking about realism. But what realism are wel talking about? WoW is a fantasy game. Which means, that this world isn't real. I think that's one thing to consider first and foremost. Now, we play our characters like the WoW-world is real. This includes all the magic and all the skills people eventually get I think. The WoW-world is a place where many unlikely things happen. There are mages, there are magical stones... hell you can even get a transport to another city in seconds.
And that is where retail and this server work against each other. Because, some people on this server would never travel from Darnassus to Stormwind in 10 minutes, in their eyes it would take days... weeks or whatever, to get there.

2. So why don't we, as a server, take the world as it is? We can of course make our own additions to it... nice cozy chairs and some terrific rp-spots. But let's just first accept the fact that a hunter has an animal companion and that a mage can make portals to wherever and that a Druid can change forms. If you want to play the hunter that is still training, fine, you should absolutely do so. If you want to play the hunter that masters his capabilities given by the game, fine, you should do so.

3. In the retail version, when you hit level 80, you are already a most important person. You've done several rather difficult and life threatening tasks and you've already worked your way up to being cheered at by Guards. On this server, you reach level 80 without any problems. Get your profile approved, fill in the questionnaire and you are fine. Now I'm not saying that is wrong, but it doesn't make you a hero right away. You actually didn't do anything in game for it. For all I know, you could have just planted herbs in your little garden and smoked your pipe day in and out. So it's basically normal that any character that hits level 80 on this server is still considered 'your-next-door-neighbor-farmer'.

4. I think the prestige classes make a good way to shine out above others (sort of), I do however think that if we really want to go that way, there has to be more to be done. I think, that it will take you to train and train and train. Perhaps those who want to be a prestige class, can keep a diary or some kind of journal that will prove they 'train'.

5. Do we want people to 'rule' over others? I think the guilds already provide this. At least if you listen to your superiors that is of course and if you would give them the same respect that you would give to your boss. Because let's face it, work is work and your boss is your boss. Doesn't matter if it's this world or another.

6. So I say no to people controlling a region. That only brings drama, I've seen it on retail. Now I'm sure people here wouldn't 'control' like they do on retail, but with a lot of people ruling certain area's it might.

7. Last, but certainly not least... What's wrong with playing the average soldier? Before we know we have armies of archmages or anything like that on the server. Then we are all very powerful again. Basically my point is... either we are all powerful or all capable of becoming powerful, or we are not.


If my post seems to be a bit lacking of whatever or a bit silly... it's late here

[Relapse]

I'll keep my post short and sweet .

In my opinion; role playing is always about advancement in one way or another. People are always striving to attain something; something more, something greater. Allowing players to achieve high accomplishments such as becoming a King of a certain colony, or Governor of a Region. It places alot of responsibility on that player; but also leaves room for others to be-siege and create conflict, espionage as well as other dedicated role plays that can simply be made.

Of course i'm not suggesting giving people this kind of thing so easilly; but if one strives for it, it should be made possible with the right actions and procedures. Players want the feeling of being special in one way shape or form. The idea of advancement would move players forward for a conquest/conflict type of goal as well as ambition; players could gain recognition and be more then well known for their actions if made possible.

Anywho, like I said; short and sweet.

[garrett]

I have to agree with sunflower.

This is a fantasy game, not a realistic one. You can't expect every single little thing in it to fit in with your idea of realism.

Frankly I've seen a lot of this on RP servers. Everyone is always demanding realism.

As far as Prestige Classes go, I like them, and think they are great for helping to have a unique character. If you want one, you have to put loads of effort into learning it, but at the end of it, you could very well be one of the only ones on the server. That is unique and special.

I would like to think that we need more prestige class options, even if they are custom ones. Just sort the classes into levels.

Those of lesser power could be open to Grunts, like it is now. Then have the stronger ones, that may not be allowed at the moment, to instead be available under stricter rules. Maybe like you have to have been on the server for 6 months to a year. With tighter restrictions on learning and the profile itself.

Just something of a special reward for people who have been here for a long time, something not available for the newly made Grunts who have just hit the 2 month marker.

As far as the fantasy/realism barrier...

I think a number of things should be opened up to being able to earn ICly, which may not be allowed at the present.

This includes the varying mounts, such as the dragons, nether drakes, the nether ray, etc. I'm not saying that it should be instantly earned, of course. It should be like the prestige classes, something to be earned through RP.

[Grakor456]

Now that I've got a little more time, I'll write a more lengthy response.

First...fair enough to Hawk and all the others that replied. I think before we can have a serious discussion on this first, the hyperbole needs to be turned off. We're not talking about characters who break lore in their history or anything of that nature.

I think part of this goes back into what it really means to RP in the world of WoW. On retail, you play adventurers, heroes even. How many characters on CotH are really like that? This may be due to lack of opportunity, I dunno. It's hard because CotH feels *too* social for me at times, but at the same time it's also too dividing with things like faction. I'd love for a way to encourage the "adventuring" mind-set, as well as offer more opportunities for Horde and Alliance to interact, whether it be on friendly or hostile circumstances.

I've always been an advocate for earning power, but I admit some dissatisfaction with how things run now. The prestige title system is unnecessarily clunky and restrictive, while at the same time offering very little benefit for the time spent. Getting power and influence ICly is part initiative, but also part luck of the draw and part how much other players just happen to like you.

Finding ways to do these things...encourage adventuring, encourage cross-faction RP, allow people a good shot at power through work, is my goal for this thread, but also examining how many people are actually interested in that sort of thing.

Also, to reply to someone a long while back, who mentioned that CotH prides itself in realism...I'd say that's not true. Speaking as one of the admins, I think I'm more proud that CotH is a place to find quality RP. Realism to a certain extent may be necessary in order to obtain that, but I've always been of the opinion that realism can take a back seat the moment it interferes with quality RP.

[Hawk]

Call me Captain Obvious, but I reckon all the tightness came from our attempt to not be like retail. Like I said, I agree completely with loosening up and stuff, but just aslong as we don't step over any boundaries or nothin'. =P

[Beltharean]

Personally, I've yet to have a problem with this, but I do have a little idea that could possibly help.

If it's at all possible, I would say create a faction for each 'class', or with an existing faction.

Create custom daily quests, in which you run an errand for an Archmage, upping your rep with them (And in turn power) or run to repair an expert marksmen's favorite rifle. These trivial tasks will eventually lead you on to greater and greater things. You will go from being an errand boy, (At neutral/friendly) to fighting along side said arch mage at revered.

At exalted, you will have done much for these people, and on the way, you've seen nearly all their is to see, and thus have experienced quite a bit.

But, if you choose to follow a certain path, you will LOSE reputation with another. Say your class you choose at the selection screen is a warrior. You can begin to follow the way of the priest or paladin, but you will begin to loose reputation with the warlock reputation, and rogues.

If you choose to become a mage, you lose rep with the druids.

For some you could go down to hated with said group. A mage wouldn't be kill on sight by a druid, but a warlock would.


With this, at every level gained with a specific faction, you could obtain a new skill, that is only for looks. It won't do any damage, as to not imbalance anything, but will add to RP.

The afore mentioned losing of rep causes you to not be able to be a paladin with warlock skills, or say, a druid with the abilities of arcane magic.

This might be kind of a lot to soak in in a shambled way (watching a movie with the family right now) but hopefully you get the overall gist of it.


And as for adventuring, we're on an expedition to Northrend, and all I see is exactly what you're looking for! So really, travel RP is the way to go for all of you who wish to get some good fun. Our group is in booty bay until saturday, then we'll be heading to ratchet, and eventually up to Northrend! All races are invited to come as far as I can tell. If not, then by damned, Narn will make it so you can come along.

On an adventure such as this, he holds no prejudice.

Afterwards though... :twisted:

[Maulbane]

While it's a decent idea, I think it's a bit excessive. It would take a huge amount of time from the Admins to put it into place, and then, who would d end up using it? There aren't too many people out there looking for that level of power. That's why the Prestige system is in place, and why you have to write the posts yourself. It leaves the GMs and Admins more time to do things.

[Khalista]

wtb functional system of advancement and combat

[Kaghuros]

Now that I've got a little more time, I'll write a more lengthy response.

First...fair enough to Hawk and all the others that replied. I think before we can have a serious discussion on this first, the hyperbole needs to be turned off. We're not talking about characters who break lore in their history or anything of that nature.

I think part of this goes back into what it really means to RP in the world of WoW. On retail, you play adventurers, heroes even. How many characters on CotH are really like that? This may be due to lack of opportunity, I dunno. It's hard because CotH feels *too* social for me at times, but at the same time it's also too dividing with things like faction. I'd love for a way to encourage the "adventuring" mind-set, as well as offer more opportunities for Horde and Alliance to interact, whether it be on friendly or hostile circumstances.

I've always been an advocate for earning power, but I admit some dissatisfaction with how things run now. The prestige title system is unnecessarily clunky and restrictive, while at the same time offering very little benefit for the time spent. Getting power and influence ICly is part initiative, but also part luck of the draw and part how much other players just happen to like you.

Finding ways to do these things...encourage adventuring, encourage cross-faction RP, allow people a good shot at power through work, is my goal for this thread, but also examining how many people are actually interested in that sort of thing.

Also, to reply to someone a long while back, who mentioned that CotH prides itself in realism...I'd say that's not true. Speaking as one of the admins, I think I'm more proud that CotH is a place to find quality RP. Realism to a certain extent may be necessary in order to obtain that, but I've always been of the opinion that realism can take a back seat the moment it interferes with quality RP.

I personally believe that CotH has so little adventuring because enough people simply do not want to do it. Sure, we've had our own groups with friends and gone and done things sometimes, but the entire time I've played here (Through times when stupid bullshit was rampant and anyone could be powerful) the level of adventuring RP has seen a net increase. Most people seem to enjoy tavern RP the majority of the time, and we will never escape that fact. There's no restriction whatsoever on mounting an adventuring party to go and do something. You don't need to clear the real WC to clear a cave, and you sure as hell don't need to be an Archmage to go into the woods and make a camp. In fact, more normal characters often have a greater potential to explore (Think archaeologists or woodsmen or simple soldiers on patrol).

Now, the Prestige system is extremely inefficient and honestly doesn't help people much in terms of power level, but remember that the system we have now was not designed to do that. Archmage is a job, not necessarily an end-all beat-all bag of tricks, though you do need to be a skilled Mage to become one.

I'd like to see a system that can give both excellent rewards (In the form of prestige among factions and special powers in RP) and I'd actually be willing to go through the game manuals and lorebooks to find out exactly how to balance the rewards so that, while each class has something more than the average Joe, they all have strengths and weaknesses that other people can complement.

Personally, the story element was my favorite part about Kag's ongoing spiritual quest. I love writing little vignettes about my characters as a way to examine their minds at a certain point in time. A future system might include short stories on each kind of advancement, spaced out from each other to represent training times or somesuch. There could be some initial "Vision quest" part where the character's trainer or initial encounter with extraordinary ability is introduced, followed by the standard training and then a "Story Cap" final passage about overcoming that last hurdle and understanding what it is you need to do. At that point, you might even be able to retire a character if you feel they're complete, or you could wander the world and use your wisdom.

Aaaand now it's done.

[LegendaryFro]

I read most of the other replies, and I have to say that i agree with the majority of them.

In essence, since I fear I'll just type nonsense if I go on too long; I like where CotH is to a point, but perhaps expanding the player's ability to be heroic and unique would be nice. In any case, much love for CotH, you guys are awesome and I'm happy to be a part of your server.

[Arrillion]

I don't mind having player round with more 'power' and reputation then others. As long as there is a process behind it, I don't someone to create a character that's already the 'Lord of Redridge' or anything like that. It needs to be earned through roleplay, and atleastt a decent storyline on the forum.

In a way, these kind of characters already exist, especially guild leaders who are involved in great conflicts, for example Lazarus, Raka'Jin and Piken, even though they all had an NPC superior just so they wouldn't be -that- special.

And above all it is practical to have players as general's other leadership roles. It makes roleplay more fast paced, not having to wait for a Gm to take control of a NPC that gives orders.

It will just need three perks. 1: there needs to be a process, 2: Moderation 3: (Gm) Control of said characters.

[Amerason]

Alright! Read all the posts again as best I could. And well here is where I am.

1.) I'd like to personally see advancement for storylines that players create. In the sense that I'd like to see a player or group of players who work for something and work hard for it and show, they are rewarded for their effort. Like.. you reap what you sew kinda thing. This could be similar to how the Darkspear Echoes are retaking the Echo Isles, or how the Commoner's Party is retaking the Fargodeep Mines kinda thing. But on a wide scale.

2.) On terms of player power levels I think that we should not all be super saiyans, but have to work for it if you want it. As far as when fights go down, just freaking agree before you go into the fight or don't put yourself in the position. Really, just stay true to your character's abilities.

3.) Prestige System I'd like to personally see overhauled. I'd love nothing more than to play a gunman for my dwarf. I LOVE that prestige title. But really, the application is tiresome. Though, I think writing the stories would be fun as could be. Love writing stories and having my characters evolve. But still, prestige classes should be rewarded when it comes to IC fights etc. You know, strength and weaknesses like other people said before me. I think that's something important.

That pretty much sums it up for me, on my own personal thoughts at least.

[Dotsy]

What Amerason says is what I think as well. (Besides the whole gunman thing)

It is possible to become prestige classes now, but it's just too much work for too little a reward, and that same concept follows into other things such as the storylines as well. If players put in a good ammount of their time, IC and OOCly, they should be rewarded with what they want so long as they don't go crazy. (Which I don't think will happen too often.)

[Shivali]

Warning: I haven't really read anything but Grakor's post, so this is just responding to the question of whether or not we should have generally more 'special' characters.
Opinion: I think we should let any people role-play anything so long as everyone involved is having fun with it. There's no need to say that CotH should be specifically for or against OPed or normal or any certain type of characters. Personally I've never really cared how realistic the RP is or how unrealistic it might be because it's RP and it isn't real. So as for what direction I think CotH should move in, is more freedom. Keep the quality of RP, and wonderful quality of nice players, but let 'em RP whatever they have fun RPing.