In the light of recent events

[Loxmardin]

Drama is an issue in any community, as I believe people have mentioned left and right as a reaction to the very recent events revolving mainly about Secrettoms and Lucelias leave. I won't comment on those events right now, however, but I will talk about drama in general. Imagine this scene here for a moment...

We all sit in a circle. We're about to play this game together.
In Sweden, we simply call it something along the lines of "the whisper game", roughly translated.

One person starts.

S/he whispers something into the ear of the person on his/her right.
Then this person passes along the message around the circle this way.
Once it reaches the very last person in the circle, s/he speaks up.

Let's say the word was originally "refridgerator".

What do you think the last person in the circle will hear?

That's rumour-mongering. Let's say something happens here on the server, for instance. A few of our members share bits and pieces of information about the event and they start to pass this information along to others. Every time the information passes from one person to another, it twists. It's not intentional most of the time, but that's how it works. It's human. We all have filters that modify the information we receive. All the time! Every human interprets everything differently, and that is probably one of the larger factors that contribute to rumours and, eventually and inevitably, drama. "You hear what you want to hear." Are you familiar with that expression?

Then, of course, we humans are extremely skilled at twisting information in general as we pass it along. We usually don't share the whole picture but we highlighten the most interesting aspects. Meaning; What's most interesting to us or what we believe will be interesting to you. It's almost impossible to tell anyone the whole truth, or help someone paint up the whole picture. Try instructing someone to copy your drawing solely by instructing them through your words. Surely, the results won't be exact. This works exactly the same way.

So what happens? Information spreads and people react. Through reactions, the information twists and spreads further. Imagine this. Four people witness an event. Imagine the event as a drawing. Each one of these four who witnessed the event gets one piece of this drawing, and then they -may- help eachother by complementing information between eachother, but that rarely happens to the extent it should. You remain with that small piece of the whole picture, and you're left to fill out the blanks on your own to truly "comprehend" the situation so it makes sense to you.

Drama is born through misinformation, misinterpretation and disagreements (mainly). All of which are reactions to eachother. One of the things that allow this cycle to continue endlessly is subterfuge.

And -that- is one of the things I wish to address through this thread!

The subterfuge.

I wish to open a discussion between members and GMs. Anyone on CotH who wishes to participate. A civilized exchange of opinions regarding everything that may be of concern here on CotH. We realize that many concerns were brought to light as a reaction to the recent storm, but I encourage anyone with the energy to repeat themselves here in this thread in a collected, mature and respectful manner. It would be a good time to do it now, especially considering the, well, storm. I'm sure there are still many that have things they feel they need to say, which is why I wished to create this thread. It is possible to forward harsh criticism in a mature and respectful way and still get your point across. I believe, most of the time, the point becomes all the more clear if you mind your wording with that in mind.

I, Loxmardin, will be the one moderating it. No one else, at the moment.

So, please. Speak, if you will.

[Knock]

I'll try to get the ball rolling, though it should be noted that I'm indifferent to the response, it's more curiosity than an opinionated question.

Are the GMs seriously considering a reform? If so, to what extent, and if not, why not?

[DaveM]

I don't like the 'players gon' hate' attitude.

I understand there's some degree of truth to it, but it will always suck to be told "No, whatever you don't feel looks right is actually already adressed in private and/or you only feel it's a problem because you were instigated to think it's a problem by drama."


I hate my GMs being stressed by their jobs and by staff drama.

Drop it and come play, my lord. GMs should RP and enjoy what they do as GMs when they do it as a subsidiary, at least most times. That's why I'm goin' on about a grunt-responsibility system in the Reform thread, because I think dumping "make the server work, players be happy" on someone's head isn't fair even if there'd be twelve of them.


Tolerance to drama should be reduced, attention to logical argument should be increased.

I don't want players who regularly have uncontrolled emotional outbursts around. I ceirtainly don't want GMs who have said outbursts either.

I certaily want people who look at arguments and discuss them to be answered and given a nod or thumbs up, and for the GMs to maintain the same degree of level-headedness.


Gratitude

I feel gratitude should be a factor in looking at players. IRL, I run an association based on voluntary work. We freely give our work to other people. We've found that - if we let people be ungrateful and take things for granted, then our mission gets sabotaged from the inside. This links to the above point. Anyone overtly focused on their own needs and/or displaying the emotional outburst that characterises not realising you're freely given something is something that should not be looked at lightly. I always try to say thanks after a GM does something for me in any direct or indirect way.

The Reverse

"I'm a GM and I put work in and -that-'s just somethig I'm not gon' put up with, ahte me if you like." is an unacceptable phrase and attitude. Respect breeds respect and we all contribute to making the server work and be great. When adressing the playerbase, a GM isn't adressing just the perhaps-unreasonable OP they're awnsering to - they're adressing the community - and as such they should always be held to some standard of objectivity and rationality. A GM's response to an issue should be predictable by a reasonable person.

[Ben]

I agree entirely with you DaveM. I always thank the team if they help me personally, like if a profile is approved I'll hunt down who did it and give 'em a great big E-HUGGLE! Because I love it whe that happens. I say thanks when the GMs answer my tickets, and try to be as helpful as I can if I've messed up somewhere including dropping the ticket in order to revise it despite that this may take another day. Also, thanks Kretol and Loxy for this It's a great idea!

Now the bit that gets me with what's happened, the responses that is, is under the reverse section. The 'almighy' pose that the team occasionally come across with, whether unwittingly or not. That post by DaveM should be put on a sticky and made a golden rule because it sums up the entire policy that we should, and I believe DO, have on OOC drama, with a little extra.

[HelveteSong]

I like everything DaveM said, except for one thing.

"I'm a GM and I put work in and -that-'s just something I'm not gon' put up with, hate me if you like."

Yes, it's disrespectful. But, it's a GM's job to be the boss sometimes, not our friend. I know it seems like it's unfair, but GMs need to say no when things are out of line and when someone needs to be stopped from breaking the rules or harassing other players. If it's a GM not wanting to interfere because they don't want to deal with the work, maybe they shouldn't be a GM to begin with, I don't know. But my point stands that a GM needs to be firm and not flip flop like...well, flip flops.

[Roxas65]

I feel that I said everything I had in mind in my other thread. But I have to say that good ideas are being formed in this thread, as well as good opinions. To never thank a GM for their job or make it easy for them and always complain when they do something wrong is what makes a GM a bit grumpy about what he's doing. LEt's say a GM does lots of stuff and no one thank you for it. Then you do ONE thing wrong and everybody complain. What do you think the GM notice? That people think he's doing a bad job, when really, he's doing a great job.

[Jetniss]

Well I don't know what much to say.

Lox '10

[Walrus]

Are the GMs seriously considering a reform? If so, to what extent, and if not, why not?

Well, most things really come down to the Kretol-meister but I myself am in love with reform and all things progressive. There is always room for improvement. That said I can not speak for the entire GM staff.

There are a fair amount of decent arguments for the conservation of the current system and I do not deny them. I merely choose to support adjustments and betterment of the system.

[DaveM]

@Helvete: On 'The Reverse'. Yea, I absolutely agree - GMs need to lay down the law and not let players second-guess them after a full and fair and rational discussion has taken place. What I don't agree with is -as you said- 'the disrespectful tone'. About GMs being our friends or not, I think it's more simple than that: While doing GM work, the GMs should be GMs and not Hawk or Loxy or Mono, but the GMs.

I see GMs as needing to sound more impersonal when acting as GMs, along the lines of:

"Blizztag: I've looked at the situation and at your arguments, and this is the ruling right now that we're going to work with. (We may further discuss it, and I may be wrong, but the decision is final as made with regard to this situation.)"

In fact, from what I gather, decisions on big issues like banning, etc., do in fact sound just like that.

If we 'professionalised' GM/Grunt-with-responsability attitude, it would create a much needed reduction in drama levels. They're not your friends or enemies, they're people doing a job for all of us.

And it was 'ahte' on purpose ;D.

[grembomb]

Seeming as I have no idea what this is aimed at, I'll keep this incredibly short and sweet and sum it all up in one quote.

"How many CoTHians does it take to change a light bulb? All of us, we're a community."

Besides, I come on here for the IC forums not the absences section.

[saluku]

Hmm... Well to be quite honest, it really bugs me that there are posts about everyone on the server who has done ANYTHING "wrong." Why does there need to be a spot dedicated to each person who may have done something "wrong"? It seems to me it just designates a place for GMs to talk trash about a player, and while somethings do need to be kept on record (I.E. Cussing, Huge ARGUMENTS not discussions) I don't think that little things need to be on there.

Now, some of you may be asking at this point: "Why did he put quotes around 'wrong'?" Well, to put it bluntly I have been told what is on a post about me in this Hate Section and a DISCUSSION I had with someone who I don't even believe was a GM at the time is on there, claiming I was disrespectful and thought I knew everything about Lore... -_- Since when did every discussion on Lore become an argument? I can remember this time and what would I have to gain from offending a friend of my friend? Nothing... I am not a rude person, I really am not, but apparently someone felt it needed to type up that I think I know everything about Lore. On that note, Lore has many interpretations of certain events... For instance: I can claim that The Banshee Queen actually hates the Blood Elves because she is jealous of what they have and how it was taken away from her. Now another person may argue that she actually still keeps close ties to her old people.

Another issue is definatly what Helvetesong (Sorry if I misspelled that!) said about the relationship between players and GMs. While I am friends with you, Loxy, I was friends with you BEFORE you became a GM... Yet whenever I have to talk to any other GM I do get nervous about sending that purple text. That should not be the case.

Finally, I would just like to point out something... It seems to me that we are all standing around with a number in our hands which changes let's say daily... So every day you get a new number which can be lower or higher, or you could look at it as we are all standing in a long line and constantly switching places. Anyways! It seems that we are all just in a line of sorts waiting to be told: "LIKE OH MY GOD! YOU ARE A TRIAL GM!" ... It looks as if the GM staff is losing quality and replacing it with quantity. It should be VERY difficult to get a Trial GM spot, and it shouldn't be something that seems to happen every month UNLESS GMs leave or become inactive (If they are going to be inactive for more then a month then they should be demoted to Grunts and SLOWLY the GM staff should look for another GM to take his or her place.) Let's say that all of a sudden Cressy, Loxy and Nostra all had to leave for x, y, and z reasons. Now this would be QUITE a blow to the GM staff, but that shouldn't mean that three new GMs would be chosen so quickly, the GM staff would HAVE to function for a while without these members a part of it as rushing a person into a GM spot would do no good.

(I thought of another!) Also, I believe that there are too many GMs to a point where it has become innefficient... We should not have to have Trial GMs just to get some profiles done! Honestly! It is EVERY GMs job to do profiles and you know what? It's only a bad task if you make it that way... I personally have read over the Wiki's profiles and the profiles on the site every once and a while. It can be fun to read a bunch of different stories about different characters... A possible solution to this would be having a monthly or weekly quota for GMs to fill reguarding profiles. And if there were not many profiles one month or week for x, y, and z reasons, then each GM would just do as much as they can...

Annnnd that's my input on the matter.

P.S. The GM names used were totally random and just the first three that came into my name.

P.S.S If the GM who thought that I was arguing with them wants to DISCUSS the matter, let's take it to PMs shall we? There is far too much rage on the fourms...

~Sathos/Reska/Sehae

Edit 1: P.S.S. Something that I think should be clear here... The fact that some of the GM staff is being very immature about the situation is funny to me... If you are going to be a GM be the bigger person and don't call someone out, that makes you at their level and you are SUPPOSED to be the authorities around here. They negativly called out just about every GM, while I do think it's okay that something be said from the GMs, to make something that DIRECTLY calls out an ex-player is immature... A solution?: Re-Think some members of the GM staff, if they are too immature to not call someone out (reguardless of if it was "deserved" or not, it shouldn't happen.) then they shouldn't be a part of the GM staff... Period.

[Cressy]

Hmm, I think we've said this somewhere before..Where sometimes when we post things in their 'discussion bad threads' or whatever, that we use basic terms just like the rest of you. And honestly, we have to post everything that could be a potential argument, harassment case, or general lack of disrespect. Not that I am saying that is what you are, but you have to see it from our standpoint as well. Believe me, when i first read /my/ warning thread I about died. But honestly, I understood why they said what they did. Just in case I went out of the blue and started harassing people left and right.

[saluku]

What good does it do a player to have this information tucked away in a secret corner that only GMs can access? While we know what we did, OUR point of view is not listed and things that someone views as an arguement could be someone elses view of a discussion... It's from a standpoint like you said, Cressy... But why is it that only the GMs are able to put up their point of view?

[Grakor456]

Hmm... Well to be quite honest, it really bugs me that there are posts about everyone on the server who has done ANYTHING "wrong." Why does there need to be a spot dedicated to each person who may have done something "wrong"? It seems to me it just designates a place for GMs to talk trash about a player, and while somethings do need to be kept on record (I.E. Cussing, Huge ARGUMENTS not discussions) I don't think that little things need to be on there.

Now, some of you may be asking at this point: "Why did he put quotes around 'wrong'?" Well, to put it bluntly I have been told what is on a post about me in this Hate Section and a DISCUSSION I had with someone who I don't even believe was a GM at the time is on there, claiming I was disrespectful and thought I knew everything about Lore... -_- Since when did every discussion on Lore become an argument? I can remember this time and what would I have to gain from offending a friend of my friend? Nothing... I am not a rude person, I really am not, but apparently someone felt it needed to type up that I think I know everything about Lore.

Without commenting on the rest of this thread yet, I want to speak on this.

I am honestly surprised that *anyone* is surprised that we have a Warnings board. I figure it would be common sense, and it's not something that's unique to us. With this many players on the server, we need a place where we can keep record of punishments given, warnings given, warning signs of future trouble seen, so on and so forth. This is not a bad thing, and is absolutely necessary for the continued functioning of the server. Nor was it ever a secret, I would have answered quite affirmatively if anyone asked me if such a board was in existence.

This is also the exact reason the board is private. Any declaration that someone did something "wrong" will almost inevitably lead to an argument against it, and cause even more problems than are necessary. Nor do we need everyone seeing our thoughts on every player that's done something "wrong."

Does it truly matter how little of things we put on there, considering not you and not anyone else should ever read it anyway besides the GMs?

[Cressy]

And that is it. The threads are meant to be private, so that we, enforcers that is, can figure out how to treat troubled players. I mean, believe me, we tend to talk to players about the screenshots we receive to get their side of the story...Unless it is something we deem inexcusable.

..>> I lost my train of though. :<