People differentiating between Flight form and normal Birds?

[Anski]

Listen people.

Whether it comes down to it and the birds don't have a single difference, using it as such is still abusing guards by just flying around, as you're trying to justify since your 'Retake Halaa' idea was shot down. It doesn't matter if you can disguise yourself as an every day bird, using it to spy on areas without specific GM approval is a no go. You people are making me sick the way you argue with GM's, especially Rigley here, about ideas after someone has already said you can't do it.

NO means NO.

If you're abusing the guards whether you're saying you're disguised as a small bird or Thrall himself, you're going to get shot down. Enough arguing because you're thinking it's unfair that the guards would see a huge crow and do something about it, it's a rule that was broken and making a huge debate about it isn't looking very good on your part.

[Manufreak101]

Because they're also Supportive spellcasters ¬¬ And only taurens and Nightelfs have the ability to be a druid, not much of us :P

They most likely would have done it by now if they could.

Is there anyway we can just get a GM's verdict on this situation?

I'd like to point out that when you were doing this before, two GMs told you it was a no-no, and to stop immediately or be shot at.

Yeah, but if we looked like normal birds, they can't just shoot us down :P
Unless they're pissed off or something, but you get me,
and when we're that small, Hard to notice the ears ^^

[Manufreak101]

Listen people.

Whether it comes down to it and the birds don't have a single difference, using it as such is still abusing guards by just flying around, as you're trying to justify since your 'Retake Halaa' idea was shot down. It doesn't matter if you can disguise yourself as an every day bird, using it to spy on areas without specific GM approval is a no go. You people are making me sick the way you argue with GM's, especially Rigley here, about ideas after someone has already said you can't do it.

NO means NO.

If you're abusing the guards whether you're saying you're disguised as a small bird or Thrall himself, you're going to get shot down. Enough arguing because you're thinking it's unfair that the guards would see a huge crow and do something about it, it's a rule that was broken and making a huge debate about it isn't looking very good on your part.

Oohh,
Spying without the guards noticing is counted as abusing?
Never knew that :S

[Rigley]

Still waiting on those facts you mentioned.

Also the guards would have noticed you, from how close you got.

[Manufreak101]

Still waiting on those facts you mentioned.

Also the guards would have noticed you, from how close you got.

Sorry guys, still a little confused,
spying and doing things without guards knowing is abuse?

[Rigley]

The guards would have spotted you, as I said. I said so when you attempted this. You landed directly above one and near two others.

[Xigo]

Calm down you lot,
next time tell me when you want 4 valid points :P
I've got to get to bed now (It's half past Midnight) and I'll post a reply in the morning,
And i've got some facts to allow druids to do these ^^
Good night
Hopefully one day Druids of the Talon can do what they're built for ^^

And i've got some facts to allow druids to do these

Waiting on those facts.

[Azheron]

This isn't going anywhere. Please, Manu, if you have any supa-strong argument, then do it, but pointless posts are just pointless. (Duh.)

[sunday12321]

*sigh* Dear GMs, apologies for possible offenses, I believe that is exactly why we lost some of the staff as GMs. Accept what the GMs are telling you, they were carefully chosen, because of the fact that they are righteous to tell us what is right and what is a big no. Don't you think?
Anyhow. I ask you, Manu. STAND. DOWN. Seriously, I personally am sick of reading this topic, and yeah I know what you're all gonna say. "Then don't read it.". This Argument is childish, and futile. Listen to our staff, Manu, There is a -reason- to why they are the -staff- in the first place! Don't you think?
Anyhow, I believe it would be a good idea to lock this one up, case closed as far as I can see, I doubt -anything- could justify swooping as a huge bird above guards, especially at the specific points where Rigley pointed you have. Please. End this before this grows out of hand, this is unnecessary OOC Drama, don't you agree?

[Manufreak101]

Okay,
So the point of me doing this is for the 'abuse',
but there's not much i can do it about it anyways,
Like I'm gonna' get in, maybe see some hostages,
Whip out Moonkin form and fry anything in my way,
Not gonna' happen D:
I'm just doing that to gather information,
Like some kinda' guy who likes to know stuff,
I think you guys call it being 'nosy' (:P)
Anyways, for those facts about druids being smaller in flight form, that you ofcourse wanted, there's not much I can really say, but here's what I've got-
(1) I don't see why druids can't change the shape or size of the form their in, so making my form smaller won't be much of a problem, (Correct me if I'm wrong).
(2) I don't think there's anything wrong with using a Noggenfogger elixir to my advantage, true Nightelves don't like Goblins, but as my profile said, I'm, not as xenophobic.
(3) I could also say it's a family recipe or something, so IC it'de be made of all these herbs to make me smaller, whilst, OOC it's Noggnfogger :P
(4) Where's Angus? Missing the expert D: He'll know what to do.

[Manufreak101]

*sigh*
May aswell end it, but let Angus or maybe another Nightelf expert take a look at it once,
I wanna' see their opinions first before totally throwing this away.

[sunday12321]

(1) I don't see why druids can't change the shape or size of the form their in, so making my form smaller won't be much of a problem, (Correct me if I'm wrong).
(2) I don't think there's anything wrong with using a Noggenfogger elixir to my advantage, true Nightelves don't like Goblins, but as my profile said, I'm, not as xenophobic.
(3) I could also say it's a family recipe or something, so IC it'de be made of all these herbs to make me smaller, whilst, OOC it's Noggnfogger :P
(4) Where's Angus? Missing the expert D: He'll know what to do.

(1) I don't see why druids can't change the shape or size of the form their in, so making my form smaller won't be much of a problem, (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Correcting. Druidism is magic, in a way, yes. But magic is -limited-. It is very, very illogical to resize from a stormcrow to a regular one. I am a lore-geek, and no Druid on wow, or any shapeshifter in known fantasy, ever did that.

(2) I don't think there's anything wrong with using a Noggenfogger elixir to my advantage, true Nightelves don't like Goblins, but as my profile said, I'm, not as xenophobic.

I don't know how the server sees Noggenfogger, but since I remember the ingredients nearly by heart, it's disgusting, and very unlikely that anyone would even touch that, and since no one ever used it ICly, that I know of, of-course, I would -assume- it is frowned upon. But that's for GMs to call.

(3) I could also say it's a family recipe or something, so IC it'de be made of all these herbs to make me smaller, whilst, OOC it's Noggnfogger :P

Again... More likely of a story, but still very doubtful. Again, I need a GM to answer this one.

(4) Where's Angus? Missing the expert D: He'll know what to do.

Come on. Now you're just trying to make yourself win, against all odds. Give. Up. For your own sake.

About the:

I'm just doing that to gather information,
Like some kinda' guy who likes to know stuff,
I think you guys call it being 'nosy' (:P)

You can scout all you want OOCly. but using that information ICly is Metagaming, and that is super-frowned upon. And since I believe your verdict is the fact you couldn't have done it ICly, I wouldn't even dare do it anyway. and even if you go boomkin, Moonkin's are not -that- powerful to fend off an entire camp, not to mention, shapeshifting takes energy from you, mental and physical, thus, if you go from bird to moonkin, you are likely to be weaker than if you have rested your moonkin form abit.

[Manufreak101]

(4) Where's Angus? Missing the expert D: He'll know what to do.

Come on. Now you're just trying to make yourself win, against all odds. Give. Up. For your own sake.

What the?!?
You think I'm trying to make myself win?
Angus is in nearly every Nightelf forum, or maybe all of mine, and he's proven to me he's knowledge,
I've already given up, it is all metagaming, Sorry, never knew it, leave me alone!
I just want his opinion

[Piroska]

This is certainly a lively discussion! As a fellow loremonger, I'll toss my own thoughts into the pile.

Druids have the ability to shift. And -- as an aside -- while the game restricts us to either tauren or night elves when it comes to druids, they are not the only races to be able to pursue this path.

When a druid shifts, it's into a specific type or subspecies of animals. From my knowledge, they can't partially shift and nor can they selectively choose which parts of their bodies that change: it's all or nothing. This is why we generally accept that druids are unable to speak in the vast majority of their forms (despite evidence of a single quest to the contrary); the forms that they assume are unable to reproduce the sounds that our characters normally use in communication.

The forms that they shift into correspond in with specific animals or creatures. These are called totemic forms; they are directly linked with patrons that represent each of the subtypes. The vast majority of night elf druids who pursued their training prior to the events surround Mount Hyjal are totemic druids. The druids that we know of -- and their patrons -- are:

• Druid of the Antler: Malorne
  
• Druid of the Claw: Ursoc, Ursol
  
• Druid of the Grove: Ivus, the Forest Lord
  
• Druid of the Talon: Aviana

There is also the Druid of the Fang, who are a corrupted group found in the Wailing Caverns. Not much is known about them (including their patron(s)), but there are rumors of their return in Cataclysm.

Totemic druids are capable of shifting into a specific type of animal or creature, but they are not limited in the subtype. So, for example, Druids of the Claw -- those embrace the ability to turn into a bear -- can turn into a variety of types of bears, such as polar bears, brown bears, and black bears. This is somewhat displayable in-game thanks to Patch 3.2, which allowed for customizable Feral forms. Unfortunately, I do not think that this currently works on Conquest of the Horde. It's my guess that the druid selects the form that appeals to him most or maybe that the training dictates what type of form is selected.

Now, the newer generation of druids -- of which people currently play in retail on World of Warcraft -- do not embrace a single totem. Instead, they are considered Druids of the Wild, which mean that they have a very different approach to being a druid. They tend to be well-rounded individuals who pursue knowledge in a variety of different forms which gives them greater flexibility but doesn't grant them the greater power that would result from specialization.

That said, on to the crux of this argument: can a druid shapeshift into a smaller form? I'm of the opinion that, no, they cannot. They have some limited control over the form that they select, but I do not believe that it can be varied in size. Remember: in the comics, the only Druid of the Talon that was displayed had a form that was so large that it easily carried a man on its back for a great distance. Furthermore, shapeshifting represents a crucial part of their training and, for elder druids, this is something that they would not want to play around with. It's serious business. So they wouldn't just willy-nilly go and snag a potion because, hey, wouldn't it be neat to be tiny? Gee, wouldn't that be so cute.

Just two additional things:

1. While we're continuing discussing the lore behind the class, I do want to point out that it is extremely improbable that the staff will change its mind. We have made our decisions; we will not be changing it.
   
2. I'd also like to remind people of our first -- and most important -- rule on Conquest of the Horde. Be polite. It's been mentioned before, but be reasonable, consider how your statements might be misunderstood, and be conscionable.

[Manufreak101]

Just a quick question,
Don't begin hating on me all over again for saying this,
Since Druids of the claw can turn into different kinds of bears,
Can I turn into different kinds of birds since I'm a Druid of the Talon?