A vouch for Brutal Honesty.

[Spiralin]

GMs should become more open-minded.

[ThePharaoh]

I don't know. Favoritism does happen, however I'm not sure I've seen anyone get anything specifically spawned for them. Maybe I can't think of it.

To answer the Opening question without attitude, or foolishness. I would like to see the GM team do somethings. I can't say too much about Krilari specifically as I've Only RPed with him a few times, which I do enjoy.

I'd like to see the char profiles checked a little more. It's rude to ask a GM to check your profile, but they have been idle for quite some time. I know it must be a pain in the ass however and that's probably why it's put off. I wouldn't want to do it. I don't know about one profile a day even though it seems very manageable, seems like it would become a job. GM's should be able to enjoy their rp and have a "day off so to speak" so if a GM could approve 2 -3 profs a week maybe that'd be okay to at least keep it moving.

Also I like to be involved in storylines we can change the outcome. I know we can't have conquest RP yet, but maybe if there were server wide, in house organizations we could interact with, and take down. Organizations that wouldn't effect any official lore. It's what I've been trying to do for a while, because I know others like myself who wish to have people killed without the OOC drama. Who wish to have action and take down the bad guy or become the bad guy and not have our stories (which are important to us) overshadowed or watered down because we aren't thrall, varian or lady liadrin affiliated. I know its hard but there are a lot of great jump off points. Such as the anchorage, and others. Now that Rosencrat and Knock are GMs there could be a huge storyline spanning the whole server ( not saying there isn't already as the council of blades, catacombs and the cabel is pretty big ) plus Navren too. It would be epic. I interacted with them for a little piece and it was sooo sweet. We need more of that! Just like grak tried to get a northrend campaign pre-restart it was awesome. And there was one in dragon place in northrend too I didn't get to go but it looked sweet and had a cool story line with it and everything. IT beats the hell out of idle tavern RP.

I guess I see now how people think the favoritism and spawning such as the event for the cabel. But I think it boils down to what we cant avoid. People are going to like others more than another group. Its not intentional it just happens. And its all about trust, they aren't going to let someone become a GM they don't trust, and if you RP with someone and they see who you are and how you get down they'll probably trust you. There are a lot of people, ( myself included ) who have said too much. I went off on a GM named Piken last year that though I felt was justified was extremely unnecessary. We can't help people we can't trust, hell even people have become GM's have rage quitted like assholes so I think thats why its a give and take thing with specific GM's on a incident to incident basis. GM's are people and will show favoritism and have cliques because thats what people do. Just they're friends with power, its not done intentionally but it happens and it always will happen. It's inevitable. Just know that they aren't picking people out and becoming their friends over you. If you RP with anyone for long enough you will be favorited. Gm or not.

Also I have sent PM's to several GM's on storylines to get "approved" so to speak so I could make sure that I wasn't breaking the rules or anything. As orchestrating storylines, usually comes close to the boundaries of what is possible for the average player. This is just a random collage of unorganized thoughts. Take it as you will. And Sprailin I know how you feel, as Nexi has a good quote that I cant remember exactly but its something like don't look to much into text or something. Basically it's easy to interpret text wrong. What may look like an attitude may not be an attitude at all. It's happened to me many times as well.

Hopefully we can get to the issues and not just create more. Good luck!



EDIT: Also I'd like to add that when they do ( GM's ) help people by spawning things, its only to premote us as players. Not shut us down. Most storylines, center around a certain group of characters, or a certain character making it hard to incorporate others. Helping those players would be promoting selfishness and closed RP. I've only seen GM's support ideas that everyone would benefit from.

[Spiralin]

So, I think the slight problem here. Is that when you try to be brutally honest. The truth hurts, and when someone's hurt. They don't see the truth, they'll feel disrespected, and hateful. Some would see, if someone asked if they're fat. And you called them fat, someone may get mad and ignore all truth behind it. So the next part of the list:

I've not met a GM that accepts the truth, fully, when they're at fault.

[hiddengecko]

Honestly, I do agree that more criticism on profiles would be good. I also think that profiles need to be checked more often. I don't mind if someone wants to make an usual character; I just want a good reason for it. Motivations don't always need to be logical, but they should be thought through. Many profiles are poorly-written, and while I understand English is not everyone's first language, I'd like to be able to read a character's backstory without seeing run-on sentence fragments begun with "but" or "and" with "you're" and "your" confused--not to mention rampant literary cliches in some of them. I don't mean we need to be rude; but I appreciate this sort of scrutiny on my own work because it helps me improve.

The growing us vs them mentality with the players and GMs is...something I really don't get, to be honest, but the only thing I really want from GMs is profile approval and being leveled to 50/80, maybe a few events or something. It needs to stop, though. Players are being massive drama queens about whatever the GMs do, and while I don't really thing the GM team is particularly problematic, I do tend to get a rather unapologetic vibe from the team as a whole (not every member, just...in general, I think.) All-around, people seem way too uptight and easily-offended.

Players should stop the conspiracy theories and the mudslinging. It's reminding me of election season. The GMs probably aren't out to get you. They probably don't hate you or want to hurt you--and if they do, some of the blame likely lies with you (though if they're so petty, they shouldn't volunteer for this sort of work.)
GMs should be more diplomatic. Compromise. Apologize even if it's not your fault, at least for the misunderstanding. Be kind to players. Generally, they seem pretty good about this, but I have heard otherwise from some various players. Some of my friends seem to have been genuinely hurt by situations which could have been resolved with a little tact and diplomacy.

"Police" players...nothing against you guys personally, but I would like it if you all would tone it down a notch. You guys are often quite helpful, especially to newbies, but it is very irritating seeing someone ask a question in /chat, and as soon as someone makes a joke some random player is "zomg barenz pls," as though the mere sight of text in the incorrect channel offends them. Also, really--unless somebody has dropped an epic cluster-f-bomb or is being very disruptive in OOC chat, please don't aggravate the situation by publicly ordering a person to tone down their language. We're on the internet; if someone saying their own character is "a bit of a whore" offends you--acclimate, please. It used to bother me, too.

Lore police--keep it civilized, and keep it sane. There are plenty of characters I want to /facepalm at, but often when I RP with them I find out it's not as bad as I thought--although sometimes it's worse. :P It is only a game. The lore is just a guide; something we add on to simply by making a character. People develop and change, as should characters. Also, please stop calling people "lorefails." It's depersonalizing and it hurts my little feelings.

TL;DR, Chillax, people! Just have fun.

[ThePharaoh]

"Police" players...nothing against you guys personally, but I would like it if you all would tone it down a notch. You guys are often quite helpful, especially to newbies, but it is very irritating seeing someone ask a question in /chat, and as soon as someone makes a joke some random player is "zomg barenz pls," as though the mere sight of text in the incorrect channel offends them. Also, really--unless somebody has dropped an epic cluster-f-bomb or is being very disruptive in OOC chat, please don't aggravate the situation by publicly ordering a person to tone down their language. We're on the internet; if someone saying their own character is "a bit of a whore" offends you--acclimate, please. It used to bother me, too.

I feel you on this. But it is just as annoying to see people talk ignorant shit in /chat and /lookingforgroup There are rules, and people need to abide by them. I cuss all the time, but if Kretol says dont' cuss, then don't cuss in OOC chat. It's his server. If chat is for server information keep it clean and quick and stfu when your question is answered. Or take it to barrens. People saying take it to barrens isn't meant to come off asshole like. But 1) its a rule 2) no one is saying stfu with your dumb conversation, we're saying. There is a place for that and its barrens chat. 3) Since we can't say it anymore its up to the GM's who don't really tell people to take it to another chat. In their defense though, Anski told someone today to leave out of LFG but even then it's late after my whole window was filled with nonsense in a channel I wont leave because it's crucial to RP. I shouldn't have to leave important channels because players cant follow the rules. Its a common courtesy to the rest of the server that actually is RPing to not have random stuff spam their chat window.

I mean no offense just displaying my opinion.

[Psychyn]

People saying take it to barrens isn't meant to come off asshole like. But 1) its a rule 2) no one is saying stfu with your dumb conversation, we're saying. There is a place for that and its barrens chat.

To counter this, a lot of times it was meant outright disrespectful and hostile like. Because people where flooding your channel specifically, they deserved to be treated with disrespect and shunned or even be ignored for it. I'm personally glad of the rule, as it cut back hugely on people not allowing others to even say the briefest of comments in chat channels. GMs are monitoring them well and good enough if you ask me.

Besides, a player can always leave a chat channel before their entire screen is spammed with nonsense. That is a courtesy to do as well. I tend to leave, and rejoin several minutes later because the spamming stopped already by then. Nobody finds me rude because of that, and the other person can't get accidentally on my nerves for spamming. ^.~

Then again, this will probably derail the topic away from the GM's and suggestions for them so I'll hold it here. I appreciate the GMs monitoring chat channels, and believe there shouldn't be any change in that.

[Kretol]

I've also been rather annoyed when I've heard of GMs spawning things for specific people when I have said no spawning. I've talked to some of the folks I know that have done it, but it has been rare (well, before I've been on my hiatus (more or less)). If it's been happening a bit again, I'll need to find those responsible and ask them their reasoning.

Regarding profiles, I do agree that they're a huge problem (as they seem to always have been). I probably will at least institute a weekly minimum per active GM or the like. As to the strictness, however, that also varies. Once again reminding folks of the "Don't CotH on me, bro" phrase, both meanings can be correct - there will be people that think they can play all-powerful demon hunters/archmages/spawn-of-Arthas/Jaina/Thrall/etc. and then raeg when we say they can't play them. There will also be times when people are just too anal both in-game and on the forums. A lot of folks have (I believe) achieved a medium, but there are still extremes on both sides.

I'm really not sure where people are getting this notion of "If I disagree with a GM and bring it up, they'll ban me!" If there are any that are liable to snap back to criticism with "STOP DISRESPECTING ME OR GET BANNED!1!", then I'd like to know. Privately. Preferably with more than just "That Kretol yells at people on Chat all day! Demote him!" There are probably people here that can vouch for me being fairly tolerant/patient. What I will not be patient with, however, is when people start to troll or be disruptive because they are dissatisfied.

I know that I haven't exactly been helpful ever since... well, several months back. My activity has been substantially low, so therefore I'm pretty much out of the loop with the armageddon that's apparently upon us... which has, amusingly enough, been predicted several times before. RP servers (both private and retail) seem to have a lot more mature people, but a lot of people tend to be a bit more touchy and sensitive as well. I've always attempted to keep the server mature and tolerant, and help guide people towards better typing, showing and receiving more respect, and just generally having a better community and ambiance. While I think I've been successful to some degrees, I also think that some folks either got to the point or were already at the point of taking some of these things too far (one such thing, the "whore" comment, was an example). We are all adults or generally at that maturity level, so should be able to take vulgarity in moderation. The reason we have had to have stricter moderation is because we've also played host to people that somehow seem to think that saying 'f**k' or another curse every other sentence helps convey their feelings better, or puts more emphasis in their words. Or, perhaps that's just the sort of environment they were raised in (whether by role models or peers).

Also, Spiralin, please consolidate all your one-line posts. Some of them I'm not actually sure whether you're talking about a GM or yourself. It'd probably be helpful to take Rigley up on his offer, or send me a PM. Everyone may have qualms with various other people (GMs and players), but putting in little quips about being "defensive" and "assume too much" isn't helpful. It is -not- up to the GMs to figure out who you're talking about/to.

Will post something else a wee bit later after I see more replies and review prior posts again.

[Etmosril]

Favoritism.

This bothers me quite a bit. I see significant signs of it, find circumstantial evidence, and get the distinct impression that it's happening, but I've never been able to pin down conclusive evidence, and furthermore, I'm kind of worried about sending it in. My standing isn't good with the GMs (since I don't usually play with any of them), and whatever queries, complaints, or applications I send aren't usually responded to. The average turnaround time for the communication they do respond to is over a month. Based on that, what chance would I have arguing my case with GMs who know one another far better?

I'm content with not having constant easy access to GMs. I don't expect all of my applications/profiles/complaints to be accepted, or even taken seriously. I don't expect them to keep everything running perfectly - they have lives and they make mistakes, just like us all. What I'd like is for players to be treated equally, and to know that what I type is actually reaching someone's eyes.

[Spiralin]

What do you think is wrong with the team?

That is the question I'm answering with my one-liners, I'm being brutally honest on things the team themselves should work on together, and work with each other to solve themselves. Every single one of the things I wrote in my one-line is something 2 or more GMs I believe have done. It's directed at the team though, so they can help solve each other's possible problems.

[Delta]

I'd like to believe it's the case that the isolated cases where favouritism is exemplified are ones where the individual had showed themselves to be worthy of receiving whatever it is, either through maturity or antiquity or whichever quality is coveted. However, that gives the rest of the playerbase the impression that they are not considered to have those traits, when that isn't in fact true - by which I mean, 'I've only seen one person that unusual-model sword. Does that mean that they're the only mature player on the server?' It becomes very clear that other factors are at play.

'If not, why not?' is a question very much in need of answering with something other than, 'it just isn't.'

[Dotsy]

My standing isn't good with the GMs (since I don't usually play with any of them), and whatever queries, complaints, or applications I send aren't usually responded to. The average turnaround time for the communication they do respond to is over a month. Based on that, what chance would I have arguing my case with GMs who know one another far better?

No one should really be asking if they're on good terms with the GMs. Whether you're on good terms or not, you've said it well, Etmosril :

What I'd like is for players to be treated equally, and to know that what I type is actually reaching someone's eyes.

___________________________________________________________________________________

I also agree with Hiddengecko from before: when in arguments, everyone needs to talk it out rationally. It's easier said then done, but go through your posts before you posts in any argument or any place of chat and review how that may come off.

It's sad, but people have been taken incorrectly before because of the way something was worded. To avoid this, just review before you post in an argument.

[Kretol]

This bothers me quite a bit. I see significant signs of it, find circumstantial evidence, and get the distinct impression that it's happening, but I've never been able to pin down conclusive evidence, and furthermore, I'm kind of worried about sending it in. My standing isn't good with the GMs (since I don't usually play with any of them), and whatever queries, complaints, or applications I send aren't usually responded to. The average turnaround time for the communication they do respond to is over a month. Based on that, what chance would I have arguing my case with GMs who know one another far better?

I'm content with not having constant easy access to GMs. I don't expect all of my applications/profiles/complaints to be accepted, or even taken seriously. I don't expect them to keep everything running perfectly - they have lives and they make mistakes, just like us all. What I'd like is for players to be treated fairly, and know that what I type is actually reaching someone's eyes.

I cannot deny that favoritism exists - it is present in pretty much every type of community, be it online or in the real world. Favoritism will happen when there are players that either simply RP with GMs and the GM gets to know them and (hopefully) realize they're a good and responsible RPer, so are apparently more trustworthy to take on unique concepts. The only way that I can think of other than simple word of mouth in order to ascertain whether a player is responsible (especially if none of the GMs have RPed with that person) is to bring back some sort of vouching system. I would suggest the feedback forum, but people don't tend to like seeing "You're an awesome RPer and all the characters you have are realistic to the world!" or the like there. It's sad to say, but my perception is that some folks don't like seeing others complimenting other people - especially GMs. They tend to see it as "sucking/kissing up," or inflating their ego. To heck with whether it's true or not; that's just how some people seem to see it, from my perspective. I personally don't care for empty compliments, and it's also a reason why I occasionally simply remain invisible and quiet when I'm on-server - because if someone dares to say something nice to me publicly, someone else has a chance to simply brush it off as "sucking up," as I mentioned earlier. Of course, I'm sure there are also folks that would be content if all GMs remained invisible all the time and only attended to tickets and forum work.

Anyway, if the turnaround was a month for something, it was probably simply because discussion happened for something that GMs couldn't come to a conclusion on, and it was... unfortunately... forgotten about (Although that reminds me - I really should appoint a GM that has the responsibility of follow-up for topics needing discussion). If it was something to me... well, I'm rather bad with turnaround on replies to PMs. Sometimes I read them at work and can't respond at the time and then forget as well. Other times it's a question that is already answered in a global sticky, or obvious in the FAQs/Policies (like "What's the realmlist?!" or "I registered on the forums - why can't I log in to the server?!"). Again, though, my own inactivity and lack of interest is also contributing to my slowness in follow-up of PMs.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, Kretol, I don't think it would be as much "kissing/sucking up" as it is wanting legit feedback. People who want feedback want feedback, not ego boosts. That's what I see, anyways.

[Psychyn]

The only way that I can think of other than simple word of mouth in order to ascertain whether a player is responsible (especially if none of the GMs have RPed with that person) is to bring back some sort of vouching system.

This actually.. irked me. Wouldn't a vouching system cause for more favouritism in CotH? After all, why do you "vouch" for someone? Because you like them.

[FlyingSquirrel]

The only way that I can think of other than simple word of mouth in order to ascertain whether a player is responsible (especially if none of the GMs have RPed with that person) is to bring back some sort of vouching system.

This actually.. irked me. Wouldn't a vouching system cause for more favouritism in CotH? After all, why do you "vouch" for someone? Because you like them.

And that brings popularity into play, which is all-around bad. We aren't in High School.