Clarification: the Light, holy power, and the Church

[Eliada]

I have been greatly perturbed, as of late, by my ignorance of the Light and holy power. I have been doing considerable research to remedy this, and I have found very little in the way of enlightenment. Rather, I have consistently found nothing but inconsistencies.

I have questions - many questions! - questions about the Light, the Church of the Holy Light, and things of a paladinic nature. I would like to know if any canon (or, hell, I'll take fanon) exists to answer these questions. While I will post my logic and sources of confusion, feel free to skip to the bright red portions if you feel informed enough to go ahead and answer without hearing my attempts at reason.

This all started about a week ago. I was playing Lumji in Booty Bay, just drinking alone and waiting for an approachable character to enter the bar, when a minor argument ensued on the General OOC channel. A character emoted that he 'summoned' the Light. Another player objected to the usage of the word 'summon,' arguing that one 'channels' the Light from the Naaru. A non-involved player interjected that the Light is non-theistic, and that the power comes from within. A separate player chimed in that the Light was not the source of Holy magic, and that the terms could not be used interchangeably.

Seeking to quell the debate, I pulled up Wowwiki, expecting to find some useful copypasta to address the issue. What I found instead was the core of the issue: there are inconsistencies in the lore about the Light and Holy power.

The Light and the Church of the Holy Light are agreed on by all as a non-theistic discipline rather than a true religion. Yet many characters of lore have referred to the Light as we would refer to a god, or at least, a sentient being capable of action, suffering, and emotion.

No one feels he deserves it... its grace, pure and simple... but the Light loves us anyway.

- Uther the Lightbringer

"May the Light have mercy on your soul."

- Velen

"You seek to martyr me before my order - so be it. Strike me down, another will rise in my place and the suffering of the Light - of the conquered - will continue uninterrupted."

- Matis the Cruel

Are the Light and the Church of the Holy Light two different entities? We've established that the Church is non-theistic, but the Light appears to be a being. Within the Church of the Holy Light is the famous paladin organization, the Knights of the Silver Hand; this would imply that non-theistic Church trains the theistic paladins (Uther himself referring to the Light as a being capable of love).

What is the correlation between Holy magic and the Light? Many non-Light-following races can be priests in-game and use Holy magic. For instance, night elf priests take their power from Elune. Is this a mere game mechanic?

I have a great deal of more questions to ask, but there are the ones that I believe can be answered. I have found no source on this site teaching aspiring pallies things that they absolutely need to know, and I am hesitant to play a class that takes its power from a source I know nothing about.

Many thanks for your answers. C:

[c0rzilla]

The Light is NOT a being. However! Many people can follow many different faiths, and exhibit Light or Light-like powers. Elune worshippers display Elune's power, but I think it looks like the Holy Light due to Blizzard not wanting to make different spells for each faith. The Loa provide healing power to their priests, but it is not the Light. The Loa are quite dark and evil beings as well. Dragons can also provide worshippers with Light-like power. The naaru are beings -of- Light, and the draenei can channel this Light the naaru provide. The draenei do worship the naaru. But they are not the Light itself. The stuff referring to the Light as a deity is old, and has been retconned. Some people do worship it, but one does not have to.

My consensus is, the Light is good will manifested. Perhaps from the people, perhaps from the Creators and left here.

[Darkneon]

To answer your questions Eliada, rather than get caught up in redundant and unresearched assumptions on lore:

Consider the Light as if it were the "Force" from Star Wars. The Light is believed to grant the beings of the universe the ability to use Holy Magic (the manifestation of the Light). The HOLY Light, is a philosophy that is almost akin to religion. Most practioners of Holy Magic (and therefor the Light) follow the beliefs put forth by the Holy Light philosophy. The Church of the Holy Light is the most closely related to this philosophy.

While light-users don't worship any physical or extraterrestrial gods, certain cultures believe the power of this mysterious force radiates from certain beings. For instance, the Naaru are a source of the Light, and are treated by light-users almost as if prophets or angels. Before the First War, Clerics of the Northshire Abbey referred to the Light as God, though such a relationship has faded into the pages of Azeroth's history. Night Elves believe that the Moon is the vessel that grants them the power to use Holy Magic.

In all, the Light will always be the Light, no matter where in Azeroth you go. However, the type of philosophies and worship of the Light will always be different in every culture. Whether it be a moon goddess, a universal philosophy, or a grand being.

This information comes from in-game sources (quests and books), and I have omitted information from WoWwiki in which I couldn't find any direct, additional information to support any claims made.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Holy Magic is based off faith. However, there's a theory that it's all interlaid.

So, there you see Velen giving a quote, correct? Well, the Draenei derive their power from the Na'aru, which is where you get the spell "Gift of the Na'aru" from. It's a Draenei racial which heals somebody with Light, only usable by people that have faith in the Na'aru. Now, if Draenei heal with the Light and worship Na'aru, then what does that mean? Exactly, the Light is derived from the Na'aru. So, my theory is that E'lune is a Na'aru and that the Light for Humans, Dwarves and etc is the legacy of when Elune tried to "teach" the Humans, way back in the Troll Wars. The Trolls get their Light from the Loa, as well as Shadow. If they worship both enough then, yes, I believe it would be feasible for a Troll to use Light and Shadow, maybe. I don't know, I ain't a Loa expert. The Tauren would derive theirs from the Sun (Psst, E'lune and Malorne are the two moons in their eyes, so you fill in the blanks). Undead and Blood Elves would go the same as Humans and such.

[Aphetoros]

The Light is NOT a being. However! Many people can follow many different faiths, and exhibit Light or Light-like powers. Elune worshippers display Elune's power, but I think it looks like the Holy Light due to Blizzard not wanting to make different spells for each faith. The Loa provide healing power to their priests, but it is not the Light. The Loa are quite dark and evil beings as well. Dragons can also provide worshippers with Light-like power. The naaru are beings -of- Light, and the draenei can channel this Light the naaru provide. The draenei do worship the naaru. But they are not the Light itself. The stuff referring to the Light as a deity is old, and has been retconned. Some people do worship it, but one does not have to.

My consensus is, the Light is good will manifested. Perhaps from the people, perhaps from the Creators and left here.

Actually, the Light was never a deity and such was never retconned. It was a gradual shift in faith from the church...
http://www.wowpedia.org/God

The Tauren would derive theirs from the Sun (Psst, E'lune and Malorne are the two moons in their eyes, so you fill in the blanks).

Actually Elune and Malorne have nothing to do with the moons for the Tauren. They are the Earthmother's eyes.

[Darkneon]

Actually, the Light was never a deity and such was never retconned. It was a gradual shift in faith from the church...

Which was something I mentioned in my earlier post...

[c0rzilla]

From WoWWiki.

God in Warcraft would have to be a reference to including Abrahamic traditions into the Warcraft Universe, just like in the Diablo Universe, but no longer mentioned later on, possibly since such attributes in the lore would reflect upon the Gameplayers world wide who actually are among such faiths in real life.

[flammos200]

/cracks knuckles. Let's start.

First off, what you call Holy Magic is called Divine Magic. It encompasses a variety of subschools, A.K.A. Domains. We have Shadow, The Holy Light, the Light of Elune, and so forth. They are all forms of Divine Magic, which are types of magic that come through the faith of the person weilding them, and not through knowledge. The type of magic that comes through knowledge and study, is Arcane, which is a totally different subject.

Moving on! The Holy Light, as a domain of Divine Magic, has various interpretations. Humanity, Dwarves and the remnants of the Quel'dorei(High Elves) generally(Not all of them. There are -always- exceptions.) follow the doctrines of the Church of the Holy Light and its Priesthood. The Three Virtues for instance, are central to their faith.

The Draenei(And some Blood Elves, most notably the leaders of the Blood Knights - Lady Liadrin; and the Scryers - Voren'thal the Seer believe that the Light is a gift given by the Naaru to their race. Draenei are special in this, as they literally are imbued with Light(Gift of the Naaru in-game), and -all- of them, even the Death Knights, can reach for it, to a small degree, and only for self-healing.

The Kaldorei(Night Elves), generally follow the Cult of Elune, and possibly that of the Ancients. If you would remember Vanilla, there used to be differences between races, as far as Priest spells go. For instance, Night Elven priests gained Star Shards, via which they called down starlight to strike their enemies.

Blood Elves either go about the Theistic(To my knowledge, there's a branch of the Church of the Holy Light in Silvermoon) or the Naaru approach to the Light(In thanks for the heart of a Naaru purifying the Sunwell...).

Now, like I said, there are a lot of branches of Divine magic. Shadow came from the Forsaken, for instance, but that doesn't mean that Forsaken Prists can't use the Light - Though the beliefs that they employ to do so are far more sinister than that of a Human's, for instance.

Divine magic as a whole is shaped by what the individual believes. The strength of that belief and conviction - The trials of faith that they have endured - are what determines their general abilities, as well as being taught just how to reach out to one's divinity.

The Light, however, abandons its Paladins if they commit evil acts or associate with clearly evil people, and everyone if they drink Fel, or do things that leave them with a guilty conscience.

[Aphetoros]

From WoWWiki.

God in Warcraft would have to be a reference to including Abrahamic traditions into the Warcraft Universe, just like in the Diablo Universe, but no longer mentioned later on, possibly since such attributes in the lore would reflect upon the Gameplayers world wide who actually are among such faiths in real life.

This is no longer present on Wowpedia, which is Wowwiki's new domain and is being updated. So...

I believe that there wasn't a retcon, but it was a gradual shift in faith.

[Eliada]

Hol'up, now! "Holy Magic is based off faith." Faith in what?

What I'm gathering from everyone here is that the Light is some obscure force that exists universally, much like the Force in Star Wars. Yet it is only accessible to a few. Why? And why do paladins lose their power if they willfully commit any wrongful action?

Your answers are greatly appreciated, everyone!

[FlyingSquirrel]

Okay, poppin' out the real life reference. Spoilered for Religious content (I think keeping religion out is for the rules, right?)

Spoiler:

Say you're a Christian. A devout, devout Christian. Because you're so devout, it allows you to call upon the Light and create miracles. Of course, not everyone can do miracles because they aren't as devout as you. Only you and other devoutees, with proper training, can make miracles happen. However, then you knowingly commit a sin. You can no longer make miracles, because your job as a vessel of good was tainted by you doing something bad.

[Nostra]

And you could theoretically believe in the cookie monster and you still would be able to perform miracles, the power comes from within the priest. I like how Grakor put it in this guide: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=99

Priests - The Internal

It is often a misconception that a Priest draws power from the object of his belief. For example, that a Human draws power from the Light. This really isn't true, though it comes close in certain cases.

A Priest focuses on the concepts of belief and thought. The Light may not give a Priest true power, but the Priest's *belief* in the Light does. Through mental training, strong belief, and force of will, a Priest can use his own faith and belief to affect the thoughts and beliefs of those around him. This is why the Priest has so many abilities that affect the mind, because his own powers are highly mental in nature.

Because of this, a Priest's power isn't inherently unclean like a Mage's, or inherently clean like a Druid's. Instead, it is a reflection of the Priest's own self and beliefs. A Priest who believes in the Shadow will naturally have powers of a darker nature than one who believes in the Light. The path of a Priest is just as much an exploration of the self as it is a road to power.

Paladins - The Holy

To be honest, Paladins were once thought to gain power in a similar manner as Priests. This was later proven false by the introduction of the Naaru. Paladins draw, whether knowingly or unknowingly, power from these strange beings. The power that the Paladins draw is inherenly holy, much as the power drawn from demons is the opposite.

Not all that much has been confirmed (that I've seen) about Paladin powers beyond this. The Blood Elves seize their power forcefully, while the Paladins of the Alliance get it through gentler means. In both cases, however, it is not drawn from the self as a Priest draws power. This explains why the Blood Elves could have Priests, but could not have Paladins until the Naaru was enslaved.

This is pretty old though, and I remember reading some Blue comments on the light that explained paladins a bit further (and how Forsaken draw on the Light), it was pretty interesting, I'll see if I can't find it again.

[Beltharean]

The exception to that would be the Loa worshipping trolls... Most of their rituals and spells are in direct communication with spirits and the Loa. When they cast, a spirit or some other divine being will do why is called 'mounting' where they use the priest as a conduit for their own powers.

However, I do agree with faith being internal, because priests of the void who belong to the Cult of the Burning Legion are able to heal not only themselves, but demons. See the shivarra.

To counter this though, one only has to look to Ordeals and Tests of Faith seen here;

http://www.wowpedia.org/Divine

It seems that a divine being sends out ordeals, and is thus a form of external pressure meaning not completely from within.

[Nostra]

I couldn't really see anything in that article that says a divine being sends them, the first sentence of the ordeals even seem to imply the opposite, that it's the believers that arrange it themselves.

When a divine spellcaster needs to test his convictions, he arranges to face a special personal challenge in which he affirms his faith by enduring torment.

At the same time this seems more like stuff thrown in for added game mechanics for D&D.

[Beltharean]

Tests of Faith was more what I was referring to, rather than Ordeals which are indeed self-inflicted. As for it just being D&D mechanics, why is it it's automatically shrugged off when it comes from a Blizzard RPG book, but not when it's WoW in game mechanics that have more to do with PvP balance than actual lore..?