Well, there are already two guides for DK's up. Education is already around XD.
Also, Beltharean. If you strip it down to bones (perhaps a bit Retail like), you have a Plated Spellcaster with a Pet. That's both Paladins and Warlocks in one, kind of. On top of this, they don't need to breath, they have nearly exclusive access to the currently one of the strongest known metals in Warcraft, they can barely feel stuff. You could say that their on par with Paladins and Warlocks, but those do not have any of the above.
FlyingSquirrel Wrote:@ Terant. In all truth, profiles are going rather slow anyways. However, I see what you say. Special Profiles are checked on even less. Although, perhaps more profiles there would help gather more attention to it?
@ Delta. Exclusive amongst the people that GMs trust.
Being trusted by the GMs doesn't make you a good RPer.
Wait... Paladins don't have plate and spell casting? They can't tear through the undead with a flick of their wrist, or heal their companions on a whim? They're trained specifically not to feel fear or pain, their faith in the light getting them trough the toughest ordeals imaginable. In a fight between a paladin and a Death Knight by lore standards, the Paladin would, hands down, win.
Warlocks in lore can cast a spell that's considered rudimentary for them, which summons upwards of fifteen demons at once. Their Fel Stalkers killed whole teams of Highborne sorcerers in the War of the Ancients singlehandedly. That is, without a fel blood-fueled wielded of the most potent magic in the -universe- behind them. If you don't call those two on par with a Death Knight, I don't know what to say.
@ Binkleheimer. Perhaps it doesn't, Binkleheimer. Although, it usually does say something towards the RP capabilities.
@ JackofBlades. They also have a guy, alone, right in front of the Citadel. Or they did.
@ Beltharean. Yes, but you rarely see the power RP'd, due to the amount of people that would automatically flame. DKs, however, can usually be OP without people flaming because of, how I see it, the storyline. Sure, a Paladin would beat a Death Knight, but Paladins are trained, indirectly and directly, to fight Death Knights. Same with Highborne and Fel stalkers. They may be on par, but people usually don't allow them to be on par.
Look Squirrel, I think this is pointless in general.
No offense to you really, I just think it's a bad idea. You're doing this with the reason of Quality over Quantity. I can understand that, but it's wrong. We need to start having faith that the people making DKs don't need a billion restrictions over them to RP them right. I can admit there are way too many living DKs. But I personally RP a dead one. And I gotta say, even the living ones I've met are very good at RPing them out. We're not in need of any restrictions, because practically all of us already do it the right way.
It's like hiring body guards for yourself when you already have the secret service.
I've never met someone who let a DK summon more than one pet, gain a roll bonus, or do something outlandish without being called out. The fact that this thread is in existance, and not one about Paladins or Warlocks goes to show that people do indeed care about whether or not DKs have the ability to be powerful, and by the general consensus, it seems people don't agree with the fact they should be stronger, because they shouldn't. As I said before, they're mass produced, and as such, no stronger than the next person. Should we ban mages, because THEY can summon pets, teleport instantaneously, create walls of ice, and the like? The perks DKs get IC have nothing to do with the limits that are put in place.
They follow the same rules we do; I'd assume as a mature server we would all he able to understand just because we have a character that wears plate and casts diseases, we aren't automaticall amazing. Our characters came off of a factory line with an expiration date of several weeks, don't let that get to your heads DKs.
On a separate note I imagine I imagine Gaia's avatar yelling "Look Squirrel!" while pointing epically
To get back on the topic, I can see both sides of this. Death Knights are an overpowered class naturally and there seems to be way too many Death Knights on the server for my taste.
but on the other hand, if that's how the community wants to play, who are we to stifle them as long as they are roleplaying a DK correctly.
As someone who's actually created a special profile DK, let me tell inform you that those times were very fun for those who were able to participate in it. There was an actual sense of community, or better yet, communication within the few people who played them. We'd either go on missions in the Plaguelands and do DK-Only events or go hunt other “Rogue†Death Knights who are much too surplus now to even think about attempting. While it's true that those types of things would rarely happen these days, there was definitely something cool about the average player making a “special profileâ€Â. It's the sense of uniqueness, which also ushers a bout of responsibility, which seems to be lacking in our community when regarding Death Knights. So, all in all, I vouch for this!
For future references, here are some of my thoughts jotted down. This will help you understand my theory based on the analysis of CotH's culture and primary sociology when regarding this issue.
Want to support me/argue against my points? Send a PM! I'll get to you, yo.
Spoiler:
It's nothing new that there are too many living Death Knights; it's a problem and it's always been a problem. When you see a Blood Elf Death Knight jumping, hugging and kissing a Draenei Death Knight, you know that something is definitely wrong. Death Knights are supposed to be very rare and their attitudes and behaviors are much different from the average persons; this doesn't get processed through many of our new players (who soon became Grunts anyway) and unfortunately, many of them forget that their character probably watched himself involuntarily slaughter hundreds, some of which were women and children, while under the control of the Lich King. I don't blame them, because it takes time to mature your story development skills to attain a level where you can make a Death Knight on the dot with a viable story on your mind, however, I believe that if we altered the system it would be best for the community because we could have better examples of Death Knights running around. A bad example of a typical Death Knight is just this:
What many players don't understand is, is that the HUGE drawback on Death Knights to make up for their massive combat increase is the fact that socially they are reclusive, have low self-esteem and are generally disliked. This fact is muddled (on CotH) because the social stratosphere and unmanaged psychology/expectations had demanded that they become accepted into everyday life for OOC convenience, not because of realism. I'm not saying anyones doing anything wrong, or that we should change, it's just that these types of things happen subconsciously because of the behavior emulated on CotH, which could be described by this quote: “I want it, but it wouldn't make sense to have it, but then again the lore is shallow on it so lets ignore cultural analyzing or complex logic and get what we want!â€Â
But like I said guys, it's cool. It's not like you've made that decision bluntly or even intentionally, and even if you did, then it's fine. We have practical ringleaders to that sort of thinking, and that's just what seems to get appealed to the most. If you didn't see up there, you can send me a PM and we can debate if you're up to a challenge! Seriously though, keep this topic out of this topic because it is not the current issue at hand. It is indeed related, but for the sake of this threads survival, I urge you to resist the temptation.
If you hadn't noticed already, a potential tool for someone to shut down an idea is to bring a semi-related topic to a post which will invariably result in it being locked. It's been done before on this forum. This is one of those, and if you do try to argue the points found in this spoiler in this topic, I will call you out for rule number one, two and four, regardless to social standing or rank. But don't let my lack of fear worry you, if you do have a problem with my findings or just want to duke it out mentally, send me a private message or come talk to me on Ventrilo. Peace out, ya'll!
@Gaiaboy10. Perhaps, Gaia. Although, this thread is a thread of opinion. Myself (And I like to think those that agree with me) believe that this should be put in place because I/we believe that even the current restrictions are not enough. Maybe I've/we've seen worse RPers than you. You think differ than us, and I'll let be that way. It all matters on who you RP with.
@Beltharean. Perhaps. Although, this isn't just for the fact that they're better with spells. They have multiple things that are DK only, resource wise. Perhaps the power is not one to be spectated at, yet even if you counter me on the power, you have the resources that they have. And how many of them were made is another question you have to take in.
You know, I just finished reading through this. What I view as what we should do is this (personal opinion, mind you. Flame as you please, I don't give a d***).
No living death knights anymore. Bam, done. Gone forever. The concept, whilst possible, is unlikely as all get-out, and we have unimaginably more living than dead. While the ritual doesn't -involve- yourndeath, you'd likely be killed in order to keep you from struggling. Therefore, I say we slash living DKs as a possibility. Or, alternatively, run them as Specials, I don't know.
Impose some sort of guidelines. I.E- Dead Blood Elf Death Knights need not be ERPing with living Blood Elf (insert class here). Most guidelines I'd like to see are no-brainers like that, whilst some ("Lol Imma toss you around and act like I feel nothing because I'm dead and feel no pain and have infinite moar strength and can pick up a mountain" (slight exxageration on the last bit)), we need more serious limitations. Undeath only increases one's strength by about 50%, or so I am told. If a Paladin or Warrior or whatever could bench 300 lbs in life, then they can bench approximately 450 lbs in death. Simple math. Their apparent lack of pain should also be addressed.
Resources? Aside from Saronite and a Necropolis they don't use, the Death Knights have rather little as individuals as they have no need for food or shelter. They have as much as the next person in a military organization, if not less. They're rejected from society, people not wanting undead in their stores, where as Private 12375 is treated with respect and given a military discount.
Where numbers are concerned, they're currently at a place I would view as acceptable. Say a thousand Death Knights were created (and I'm being generous, since it was likely much more). We currently have 57 accepted knights, with few played often enough for half that many to be taken into account. To put that into perspective, there are 51 warlocks, 206 warriors, and 85 paladins. If you ask me, paladins should be even more rare than Death Knights.
Since death knights were implemented as a standard class in WoW they ceased to be special or more 'powerful' than the warriors, priests or mages we could already play. ICly this is explained by them being of the massproduced third-generation death knights that were used as little more than glorified shock troops by the Scourge. I doubt we will label them special profiles again because of this.
If you do see someone roleplaying a character 'wrongly' PM them and talk to the player about it, explain your view and, perhaps, they will change. Or they might open your eyes to their interpretation of the lore.
Or they could be stubborn, rude and flip you off, in which case your best bet is to end the conversation, screenshot and PM a GM.
On that note I've seen a few people going around lately saying how they shouldn't even feel pain or be affected by attacks because they're death knights. I forget the example, but I think Death Knights do in fact get injured like normal players. I just don't think you can say "you can't do ____" to me because I'm a death knight.
The undead would have a higher tolerance to the sensation of "pain" but attacks would still do just about as much damage to an undead as it would a living.
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