Necromancers and Runemasters, Open!

[kaii]

As much as I like this idea i would still like to point out one thing. And I am sure all of us here would agree.

If "One" is going to roll a Prestige Class or Something that requires Special Approval/Profile, " One " would hope that they can Role Play the characters personality well.

I myself am still experimenting with Personality types and it really nice to see I have two more base classes to work with.

[flammos200]

To be fair, Flame/Frost runes were kind of silly and not useful, and Motion in general was rather overpowered.

Situation: You're in Northrend, freezing your rear off, as you can only wear a little bit of Cloth as a Runemaster. What do you do?
Solution: Flame runes.

Situation: You're in a burning building/any other ridiculously hot scenario, and you want to survive.
Solution: Frost runes.

Situation: You've been summoned by a devious warlock to a rock floating off Outland. The Warlock intends on slaying you via Drain Soul, to fuel his next summoning, prior to dumping your corpse off into the Nether.
Solution: Motion runes.

Everything has its use, and -nothing- whatsoever is useless or silly.

Every single Prestige Class has OP stuff, and fel, compared to what some Base Classes can do? Runemasters are underpowered. Grossly so.

[BountyHunter]

Every single Prestige Class has OP stuff, and fel, compared to what some Base Classes can do? Runemasters are underpowered. Grossly so.

Using this logic, would you agree that Warriors, Rogues, Hunters have something overpowered which they can do?

Runemasters are more or less a mix between a Mage and a Warrior, they have brute strength and they can channel various magic through runes, they need to have a compromise between the two or else it would be bordering on a bit of multi-classing. Bare this in mind, heh.

[flammos200]

Rogues? Fel yes. From Shadowstep to Shadowdance, Garroting people, and other crazy rapid-teleporting-around-a-person-and-hitting-them. Also, Fan of Knives.

Warriors? Incoming Fireball? Spell Reflection - I will laugh the day I see a Spell Reflect-based version of Pong. Enemies charging at you? Shockwave 'em! Mass of baddies in front of you? Bladestorm in!

Hunters? Frost arrows to freeze enemies in place, magical explosive traps, arcane-imbued arrows that explode on high into a shower of their likenesses. Being able to silence casters with arrows, or run ridiculously fast, or leap backwards large distances to disengage from combat. Add to that having periods of time in which you can parry every melee blow that comes your way, as well as using your animal to scout by seeing through its eyes, and sending such animal scouts to far away - hence Eagle Eye, and... well... don't you feel it a leetle OP?

While it is true that if Every Warrior Ever used Spell Reflect constantly, it would be OP, so would it be if every Runemaster used Motion runes constantly, or every Warden always Slicing Torrent-ed everything, or every Warlock Chaos Bolted every enemy, and so on...

The key is not underpowering a class so that it has a semblance of balance with the weakest of the lot. Instead, it is teaching temperance in the use of that class's abilities.

A role-player that seeks to preserve, and not undermine, the RP going on around him will always show temperance in the abilities used, and while he may hold great power in his grasp, he will not use it unless it is to further the storyline of the RP going on.

TL;DR: -Use-, but do not -abuse-.

[Grakor456]

Situation: You're in Northrend, freezing your rear off, as you can only wear a little bit of Cloth as a Runemaster. What do you do?
Solution: Flame runes.

Situation: You're in a burning building/any other ridiculously hot scenario, and you want to survive.
Solution: Frost runes.

Situation: You've been summoned by a devious warlock to a rock floating off Outland. The Warlock intends on slaying you via Drain Soul, to fuel his next summoning, prior to dumping your corpse off into the Nether.
Solution: Motion runes.

Everything has its use, and -nothing- whatsoever is useless or silly.

Every single Prestige Class has OP stuff, and fel, compared to what some Base Classes can do? Runemasters are underpowered. Grossly so.

Yes, one can conjure up reasons for the Frost and Flame runes to be useful, but aside from the fire/frost resistance boosts, there was little in them that was directly useful to the Runemaster himself. Most of them were buffs to other people that the RM could not directly benefit from...which is fine by d20 standards due to how the d20 works, but wouldn't have been as useful here. The marks you mentioned for these two are mundane utility that I didn't feel the need to mention.

In short, when I designed the Runemaster "spellbook", I decided "What here looks useful, and what do I think would be there if Blizzard was making a class like this for retail?"

Also, Motion rune is just blatantly OP, like I said. Gives more mobility than what Mages with the Ley Walker prestige get, and that's just silly.

In short, these lists provide the spirit of how *we* want Runemasters to work, which may be different from how they work in the d20 (because, frankly, I don't like the Motion/Flame/Frost runes as a whole and I don't think they work in WoW.) Over time we can tweak the spell list and expand on them as necessary.

[Ural]

Will there be any custom spells ( or items that you can Use: ) handed out? That runic healing is cool.

[BountyHunter]

I don't think you really need custom spells. Everything can be imagined quite easily.

[Ural]

Of course but this would be the place to ask!

Now what about those fancy Runemaster and Necromancer talent trees? Are you able to mix and match or basically stick to one tree?

For example;
If you had a striking Runemaster, could they Runic Mending or Stone Grip?
If you had a frost Necromancer, could they use Fear or Raise Dead?

[Krilari]

You can use all the spells in all the trees, but you have to choose one tree to specialize in, and you will get only that tree's specialized abilities.

[BountyHunter]

Mix and match only a little, about as much as you would with a normal class whilst specializing in one tree. I would recommend that, if you are focusing on one tree, you only take one from each of the others should you want to.

Edit: Totally a matter of opinion.

[Beltharean]

Quite. There are so many runes you can scrawl on your body. The more powerful a rune is, the more space it takes up, so if you focus on healing each of your healing runes will be far more complex and thus take up much more space on your body than say, your combat runes will. They'll simply be on the 'foundation' level still, while you're three, four, five additions in to each of your healing tattoos. When they get their strongest, they could take up as much space as a human head, and you can only fit so many head-shaped tattoos on your body before you don't have any space left. Runemasters are rather limited that way, but that's what you get for having skin like chain mail, and fists like hammers I suppose.

I don't agree however, with the lack of frost, fire, and motion spells, especially because we can breathe fire with the current system, but not use a sigil to start one. Since it's the sort of person I am, and I've always used variations of in game spells to better suit my needs (As said before, an arch of fire instead of a ball being used, a wall of ice to block a blade, a vine to wrap around an enemy's arm to make it so they can't attack you, etc. etc.) so I don't see why what is now a base class, that requires a special profile to boot, should have even less freedom than the others. From each tree, I'm of the belief we should be able to use:

Flame Pattern:

Glyph of Warmth

Glyph of Searing

Mark of the Ultimate Flame

Frost Pattern:

Glyph of Cooling

Glyph of Greater Coolness

Glyph of Chill

Mark of Ultimate Ice

Motion Patterns:

Mark of Lesser Speed

Sigil of Ultimate Transportation (Astrall Recall, basically)

That's my personal opinion, I would add the Sigil of the Maelstrom, but controlling the weather is a bit much for anyone, even if your power is granted through natural means. Any who, that's my two and 3/4 cents.

[flammos200]

Quite. There are so many runes you can scrawl on your body. The more powerful a rune is, the more space it takes up, so if you focus on healing each of your healing runes will be far more complex and thus take up much more space on your body than say, your combat runes will. They'll simply be on the 'foundation' level still, while you're three, four, five additions in to each of your healing tattoos. When they get their strongest, they could take up as much space as a human head, and you can only fit so many head-shaped tattoos on your body before you don't have any space left. Runemasters are rather limited that way, but that's what you get for having skin like chain mail, and fists like hammers I suppose.

I don't agree however, with the lack of frost, fire, and motion spells, especially because we can breathe fire with the current system, but not use a sigil to start one. Since it's the sort of person I am, and I've always used variations of in game spells to better suit my needs (As said before, an arch of fire instead of a ball being used, a wall of ice to block a blade, a vine to wrap around an enemy's arm to make it so they can't attack you, etc. etc.) so I don't see why what is now a base class, that requires a special profile to boot, should have even less freedom than the others. From each tree, I'm of the belief we should be able to use:

Flame Pattern:

Glyph of Warmth

Glyph of Searing

Mark of the Ultimate Flame

Frost Pattern:

Glyph of Cooling

Glyph of Greater Coolness

Glyph of Chill

Mark of Ultimate Ice

Motion Patterns:

Mark of Lesser Speed

Sigil of Ultimate Transportation (Astrall Recall, basically)

That's my personal opinion, I would add the Sigil of the Maelstrom, but controlling the weather is a bit much for anyone, even if your power is granted through natural means. Any who, that's my two and 3/4 cents.

I approve greatly of this. Especially since, by RPG rules, Mark of the Dragon allows you to breathe either Frost, Flame, Lightning or Acid, mimicking the breaths of the Dragonflights. So Frost glyphs have use. And so do Storm runes to amplify the number of lightning strikes in an area. Levin-Curse-types, since Maelstrom is a little too powerful.

[Aphetoros]

I don't think it's really a big deal for some of them. Like a rune to increase your speed or start a simple fire. Certain things can just be presumed, can't they?

[Beltharean]

Well, it's being said we can't use them... So I suppose not.

[Aphetoros]

Oh. I missed that.