Concerning Living Death Knights

[Alykia]

It honestly isn't 'forcing retcons out of the blue' for a character that someone hasn’t bothered to even start a workshop profile for so as to make sure that it is appropriate.

This entire Living/Dead DK issue aside…

The point is, if your role-playing a character and expect to be role-playing them long term, you should be making a profile ANYWAY. in case anything in their profile is questionable.

IMPO, forcing retcon because a character is rping an un-approved aspect… any un-approved aspect… and they never bothered putting in the time to at least make a skeleton of a profile for their char so as to make sure it was a legitimate character that fit the server, is not the fault of the admin.

People should really make profiles, at the very least doing one for the workshop, and make sure that their characters ARE lore/rule appropriate rather than just saying 'I don't feel like it' and -assuming- their character is appropriate when it very well may not be.

The profile process isn't there just to look pretty or to hassle people after all.
It is there to help us all roleplay better and have properly developed and thought through characters, and to keep this server at a high quality level.

[Kira13]

I´m seriously gonna start talking about Death Knights as DEAD from now on. If anyone doesn´t like it.. well, there´s nothing you can do.

See what happens.

[hiddengecko]

I had really thought this was out of the blue. You can't blame a player with reasoning, "You should've known, why didn't you make a profile before this, your fault!" As, some people who may have even found the controversy pointless. Probably didn't even keep up on the argument.(Myself is one of those people who probably didn't even keep up on the debate)

I find forcing retcons out of the blue is really annoying, it's happened to me before. So, I can understand Hiddengecko. It kind of ruined the character and now I don't even play them.

Pretty much this. I saw the debate, rolled my eyes, and didn't really keep up on it.

It honestly isn't 'forcing retcons out of the blue' for a character that someone hasn’t bothered to even start a workshop profile for so as to make sure that it is appropriate.

This entire Living/Dead DK issue aside…

The point is, if your role-playing a character and expect to be role-playing them long term, you should be making a profile ANYWAY. in case anything in their profile is questionable.

IMPO, forcing retcon because a character is rping an un-approved aspect… any un-approved aspect… and they never bothered putting in the time to at least make a skeleton of a profile for their char so as to make sure it was a legitimate character that fit the server, is not the fault of the admin.

People should really make profiles, at the very least doing one for the workshop, and make sure that their characters ARE lore/rule appropriate rather than just saying 'I don't feel like it' and -assuming- their character is appropriate when it very well may not be.

The profile process isn't there just to look pretty or to hassle people after all.
It is there to help us all roleplay better and have properly developed and thought through characters, and to keep this server at a high quality level.

Not really. Some of the best roleplayers here eschew profiles unless necessary. I know my Death Knight is lore appropriate, and her backstory was not interesting or significant enough to really warrant a detailed history. Additionally, she's always been a mysterious figure, and I like her that way. It's a little bit lost when someone can just wiki up a profile and just 'Oh, now I understand every reason for everything. That's nice.'

I write profiles if I need a character at 80, or if there's something I'm not sure about and want community approval on. My Death Knight is fairly generic in every way, excepting her quasi-living status--the only effects of which are exclusive to living Death Knights is that she gets cold, can bleed, can pale and blush in extreme emotional circumstances, and can eat or drink if she chooses to--and of course, can be affected by diseases and so forth. All of these weaknesses and quirks have been touched on in her RP, and touched on repeatedly. When she was made, living Death Knights did not seem to be terribly controversial.

With recent debates, I hardly saw this proclamation coming since I simply skimmed over the topic and sighed to myself at what most seem to agree upon was silly drama with no real resolution save the status quo. Topics went dead with "Oh well, live and let live" as the apparent resolution.

[Alykia]

I know my Death Knight is lore appropriate

Your death knight is a living death knight, and you say that.
This fact, and the mere fact that there is so much debate going on around living death knights... emphasizes how what one person views as being server lore/rule appropriate, may be different from what others and admin may view as appropriate.

Spoiler:

I'm not saying your Death knight doesn't follow lore, I'm pointing out that what you think is appropriate, may be different from others. That is one of many things that having a profile written helps to deal with.
If you want to explain your char lore in detail, please do so on another thread so as to not derail this one.

No mater how hum drum, boring, or generic the character. They should have a profile at least in the works if they are going to be a main and/or regularly played character.

It makes SURE that such questions are out in the open and any even possible questionable content in a character is settled.

I write profiles if I need a character at 80

I disagree with this thought.
Severely.

Character profiles should be made for the authenticity of the character, not just to get them leveled.

Level 80 is more of a stamp of 'this character is approved to fit of the lore and rules of this server'.

Things some people may view as 'generic' may NOT be, and can be viewed differently by other people. Every profile that I have written so far that I would -view- as generic, someone has pointed out -something- that could be brushed up or cleaned on to make it more lore/rule appropriate.

And these have been very non-spectacular human / draenei basic characters.... even -without- questionable content like living death knight things.

You never go wrong by making sure there is a profile in the works. And honestly I think it IS wrong that this thought process of 'well I'm just not going to bother making a profile at all and play them how I wasn't' even exist. Honestly it is rather disturbing.

Even if a character -may- fit with lore and be entirely appropriate... even if it may be a 'hum drum mundane' character... if it is going to be played on a regular basis, and be a main character for this server, it SHOULD have a profile and SHOULD be approved for that 'seal of approval' status.

At the very -least- there should be a workshop generic skeletal of characters in the workshop for a 'logic check' and to make sure everything does check out.

With recent debates, I hardly saw this proclamation coming ..

Now that is the issue isn't it? If a profile had been written.. or at least -started- with some generic information, then people would have brought this up, and you have;
A) Had your character approved so not be facing this issue.
B) At the very least WOULD have seen it coming from commentary in your workshop profile.

[Loxmardin]

I'll kindly ask that the debate stops as it's running off the side of what the topic was intended for. As an aside...

hiddengecko, approach the GM team about this in private and we'll see how we can sort this out instead of cluttering this topic.

[Delta]

A legitimate query, one I wanted to bring up since the Prestige system was reignited;

If there can be no such thing as a living Death Knight, then where does this excerpt from the 'Tormentor' weakness list enter the equation?

-Unliving
The process to become a tormentor infuses the target with so much Shadow energy that their body ‘dies’. They now smell, exude a necrotic aura and have signs of visible necrosis.

Of perhaps lesser relevance, and for another thread, is that I feel the Tormentor prestige only appears to be granting Death Knights the license to use abilities that their class already has, and seems to be exacting a nerf on them by way of tiering. I have used the majority of the Tormentor's ability range in IC situations, as those are nearly all spells and talents available to a Death Knight already.

[Kira13]

Yes, they are the spells a Death Knight have, but their powers are enhanced.
And if you meant that Tormentors now rot -because- of the shadow infusing, then yes, I will have to admit that is a paradox. Death Knights do not rot because they´re infused by shadow. How Tormentors rot because they are -too much- infused by shadow, I cannot grasp, nor comprehend.

[BountyHunter]

Regarding the Unliving weakness, Death Knights generally do not rot it would seem and becoming a Tormentor would cause their bodies to rot, smell and more or less become completely Undead.

[Kira13]

Because their bodies are now more infused with Shadow, the very Shadow that keeps them -from- decaying?

[Psychyn]

Interesting read. Glad one drama topic is finally over. Now to the next?

That said, I never really cared for DK's and never rolled one in my life. Not even on retail. xD Just felt the need to express my compliments for removing one drama-ish topic off the server. Keep it up.

[hiddengecko]

Regarding the Unliving weakness, Death Knights generally do not rot it would seem and becoming a Tormentor would cause their bodies to rot, smell and more or less become completely Undead.

Undead do not rot because of the infusion of shadow magic; this is actually what slows or completely prevents that. Rotting is the result of shoddy necromancy. Forsaken smell and decay in some cases because they are just plague-raised. A forsaken Death Knight would likely stop decaying.

Decay, in fact, is a sign of life in a way. There's no immune system to prevent it, but it means that whatever is currently rotting away is a viable host to life. Shadow-infused flesh is far from it. A Tormenter would be purged of the last vestiges of rot. If they had any scent at all, it would just be some supernaturally vague 'unnatural' sort of smell: seemingly more mechanical in origin than organic.

[Edit] : To clarify, by 'sign of life' I meant of microbiological life, not of the Death Knight's undead or undying status; their flesh would have to be a viable host to bacteria and so forth to have a rotting or decaying scent.