Restricting RP! Rawr!

[Stormgald]

Well said, Kirabo. I will also have to agree with many and most of you in different ways. However, the post that stuck out the most to me was Reigen's. I agree pretty much 100%. Even on the points where we said things we probably shouldn't have and are sorry for it.

[Brutalskars]

RESTRICTED!!!

[Aphetoros]

Your-One-And-True-Nub

How amusing.


Forum syntax.

[muhaha8]

In all honesty, I feel as though I'm a small child being told I can no longer play in the yard because some child from Kalamazoo was hurt playing in his back yard (read as: someone else did it wrong, so you can't do it, either).

... No other way to describe how I feel, I suppose. Take it as you will.

[Mirivian]

I will weigh in here with my tuppence because, well in real life I'm old and therefore I've seen how rp has evolved.

I started rping in IRC channels, and pretty much like many people who start out, I made every mistake in the book; lots of lols that right now I cringe at, I ticked every Mary Sue box because, well, one does. So, as my rp started to mature (and so did I) I then did the usual thing of rolling my eyes at everyone who started out with the incredibly-lethal-orphan-character-who-has-sadness-in-their-eyes-and-falls-in-love thing that, well, many many people do. I wanted things to be believable, gritty and realistic or at least as long as people played things out properly. This is when I realised that apparently in rp you CAN play an incredibly-lethal-orphan-character-who-has-sadness-in-their-eyes-and-falls-in-love thing as long as you had been in a community for a very, very long time. Is that right? Not really, but that seems to be the way things roll.

Rp evolved - it went from something everyone was doing due to having a old school tabletop background (as gamers did back then) to something that people only allowed in certain groups while hunting, to only being allowed in taverns to then...never being allowed. It went from using the lore we were given to turning into a bit of a soap opera of who was lovin' who and back again. I've seen a lot of changes, some good, some not so good.

I've been rping with COTH since back in the day when we had FFA RP, when the world could be adapted to suit and when you could win or lose a duel and that was that. No rolls, none of that stuff - if you lost, you sucked it up but then you continued to play your game. And we were mostly fine with that because we all knew each other, and because we were able to take a loss with grace. We deliberately ruined our faction with opposing races and put our characters into situations which could get them killed because that's how we rolled. We raided. We hunted. We used the mechanics to buff our rp and it was a fair bit of fun to do.

I left, wandered around, left rping entirely and have only just come back to find rp has once again evolved, and the new change now seems to be REALISM; everything has to be "real" by using the codex of our world and trying to slap it on a fantasy world. Death has to be "real". Danger has to be "real". Characters have to be "real". Honestly? It's not a change I'm interested in as I don't play these high fantasy games to be realistic, but - it amuses me consideriably considering I've been rping since before a lot of these players have been alive to be told that any other way of rp must mean that I'm a nub; that you cannot POSSIBLY -truly- be roleplaying if you're doing PvE, PvP, skinning, fishing, playing your character and using the mechanics, or even reaching a little higher provided your rp can back it up.

But No: you have to make travel drag out for hours, no one seems capable of healing a wound anymore even though we've still got the mechanics to raise the dead, you must make posts with loads of flashy graphics and youtube links in order for people to be even remotely interested in one's guild or character, one has to have permadeath, one has to know your lore so back to front and be willing to argue about it than one must sound as if one has gone to university to study it (and yet conveniently be able to make something up to explain why one is ERPing with a completely different species), and then and ONLY then is one a true rper.

And then of course there's the FAIRNESS; everyone has an idea that fairness means the playing field must always be level. If one person has an advantage over another, earned or not, it's suddenly NOT FAIR. It is NOT FAIR that another character has gear or an item or a title because advantages, real or implied is NOT FAIR, and so therefore it seems the "when everyone's super, no one will be" saying has become a code of law. There is no acceptance that some people have certain strengths and therefore should play those strengths - instead people want to be able to access everything that other people can access. If they can't it shouldn't be allowed...I cringe at this, truly I do. I am terrible at maths; I would never ask that maths be eliminated from the world and any math geniuses be lobotomised because their abilities made me feel inadequate but that does seem to be what people are requiring now in their rp. Personally I'd rather just not do maths than tell other people they're not allowed as well.

This wasn't the rping I left. And while I understand evolution happens, this doesn't feel like an evolution to me...what it feels like is a bit of a step backwards, of an attempt to try and force rp to go so completely in the opposite direction in order to keep what we term the "Lolers" away that it suddenly becomes overcomplicated, inflated, and restrictive. Suddenly I feel bottlenecked to stay the same so no one gets their knickers in a twist about something someone else has - while at the same time cramming their own ideas of perfectly okay rp down my throat and if I don't like it well obviously I don't know what rp is. How is that even remotely okay - why must I argue point for point that I don't want to be involved in someone's rape/slavery/so and so rp when I just plain..don't want to do it?

I honestly thought "Well thank the gods for COTH because none of this is there!" I came back, made my apologies, rolled a character...and lo and behold, the attitude is somehow still there. All the above is here, and I'm somewhat baffled. I've always thought of COTH as the one bastion of private rp sanity where the rules of over-fairness and over-realism is LAW has been evaded.

I can say, hand on heart, that there have been staff members who have never liked the idea of prestige classes and are therefore pre-disposed to hate them from day one. But I counter that by saying, hand on heart, that I find the idea of cross-species love affairs is so laugh-worthy that I cannot take anyone seriously who participates in it. The difference is in response: what do I do? I just ignore it. I don't participate in it. If I see the love, I walk away and I go find someone else to rp with. And as far as prestige classes go - or any other form of rp which people feel isn't "REAL" rp such as duelling, PvEing, world effects, healing people and actually being ABLE to, or what have you - the solution is solely that: walk away. Don't participate. Just...leave it there. It doesn't make you a bad person, or them a bad person. It's just a preference. Preference is not evil.

Solution? I'd like to give a big graph and thesis on what the solution might be but the only thing I think I can say is "if you want to be restricted, restrict YOURSELF...don't restrict ME personally." Back in the day I suggested to the GMs that creating a living breathing world like the GMs of old would be something I wanted to see - world events that shaped the lore and that people could participate in (especially as at the time we were over-run by tavern ambassadors). That worked for a while, and even was a lot of fun, but there were always going to be people who just wanted to run into the hills and ERP in peace. Fine...you do that. But please do not go storming my own rp parade when I want to take on FEL REAVERS (yes I said it) with my prestige character in a last-ditch stand to save a city; that's how I rp, and it's how I've rped for 20 years. It's hardly new.

A bit of tolerance needs to go both ways...because it's -all- rp.

[Zarquon]

I honestly feel that it is pretty clear where the player base stands. . .

Regardless, I would like to put this here to everybody anyway, if only for to remind us that hey, the server's still here, and we can still RP whatever we want. . .well, maybe without the visual aids. Good going; let's campaign for the right to RP over the right to have (insert thing here)-waving competitions, because that's serious what most RP servers seem to be turning into. "Hey, I want to have the Prestige, over you!" "I want more power over you!" "I want more renown than you!" "I want more coins than you!" "I want to have a bigger (insert thing here) than you!" And effectively, the guidelines and rules put in place to prevent the (insert thing here)-waving competition gives me the constraining feeling that RP is being stifled in favor of such OOC mechanics.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I honestly feel that it is pretty clear where the player base stands. . .

Eh.

Please avoid making such generalizations.

On Realism; Only realism I really apply is as to what people wear and resurrections. The first is probably due to my obsession with Deadliest Warrior, and the fact that I just look at the stuff and think "How much does that weigh?", "Does that protect important arteries?", or even "How versatile is that?". Then, onto resurrections. Oh, resurrections.

Frankly, if someone with the experience of Salsh'alei (someone who's devoted their life to practicing their chosen faith), I could see resurrecting. However, those late teens/early twenty year olds tossing around resurrections as if it's no problem in the world. Take it as you will.

[BountyHunter]

As a side note, it seems I can describe two kinds of Roleplayers, a sort of 'black' and 'white' whilst ignoring the 'gray' areas. Micro and Macro Roleplayers.

Micro Roleplayers tend to focus their Roleplay around character interaction, the small details of actions, every little speck of their character and others. They seem to greatly enjoy Roleplay between themselves and another or maybe even a small group whilst shying away from larger gatherings due to feeling suffocated and insignificant. These Roleplayers can enjoy the day-to-day Roleplay greatly, rarely diverting from this due to the fact they don't take a liking to anything greatly significant.

Macro Roleplayers are more inclined to Roleplay adventures, large scale events and focus on what their characters do instead of how they do it alike a Micro Roleplayer would. Large groups are a magnet for these types of people and they tend to often wish for something more to do. Whether it be an adventure into the heart of Demon territory to destroy an Ere'dun or fighting a legion of Worgen on home turf, they are always up for and willing to partake in these. They have more of a tenancy to Roleplay characters based around fighting and adventure than trivial occupations.


It's safe to say I'm a Micro Roleplayer.

[Etmosril]

I honestly feel that it is pretty clear where the player base stands. . .

Eh.

Please avoid making such generalizations.

In the interest of fairness, I've identified only three players (not GMs) who support prestige removal (if I've made an oversight, feel free to correct me). The majority of us are against it. The demographics might be a bit different if we tallied up the votes of people who don't frequently visit, or tend not to post on the forums. But I still don't think they'd be enough to change the major opinion.

Yup, it's another prestige complaint.

I'd like to focus on the work people have done on theirs. The majority of players have worked for months on the stories. Voluntary work - but only undertaken in order to reach a specific goal, and with the understanding that the goal would repay the effort. It doesn't sound different from 'regular' work. By removing prestiges, one completely discards months of careful planning, character development, and time spent writing. It seems that this work isn't valued.

The fact that it wasn't a lot of work for some people is irrelevant. It remains that if the system is removed, it will have all been fruitless. We've all had fruitless work in real life. It's one of the things we come here to enjoy a respite from. Must we bring it here too?

And I'm not even going to get into how the iconic classes which don't fit into the standard ten-class set (Priestess of the Moon, Spellbreaker, Apothecary, etc.) will go extinct. If we have to make changes, let's not allow those to be abolished. If we do, we'll lose a lot of the interesting racial quirks which made each fun to play.

[Cressy]

I'd like to focus on the work people have done on theirs. The majority of players have worked for months on the stories. Voluntary work - but only undertaken in order to reach a specific goal, and with the understanding that the goal would repay the effort. It doesn't sound different from 'regular' work. By removing prestiges, one completely discards months of careful planning, character development, and time spent writing. It seems that this work isn't valued.

But wasn't the time spent fun? If doing a prestige for people has be work or time consuming, why do it? If your reason isn't because you enjoy it, then you have been doing it for the wrong reasons.

Just saying. I have spent more time on some of my characters then most have been on this server. A server restart, prestige wipe, or whatever else would also make all of my make disappear, but do you see me crying? No. I enjoyed the time I spent doing everything I did. I enjoyed the effort I put into events and whatever else. It didn't matter if it took months of planning to pull of events or whatever else, I enjoyed it.

/shrug.

But, what I say really does not matter since I am in the minority.

[Grakor456]

In the interest of fairness, I've identified only three players (not GMs) who support prestige removal (if I've made an oversight, feel free to correct me). The majority of us are against it. The demographics might be a bit different if we tallied up the votes of people who don't frequently visit, or tend not to post on the forums. But I still don't think they'd be enough to change the major opinion.

I think this is somewhat deceptive (not intentionally so, mind, just a matter of skewed perceptions.) If you go back and look over the posts in this thread, there's also a very significant portion of the playerbase that simply shrugged at the the removal, or was at first upset but then became content when it was clarified as to what we intended to do after the removal. It appears that the majority is gung-ho against it because those against the removal are significantly more vocal than those that are for or indifferent.

Don't take that to mean that I think the decision was overall popular, I just don't think we can make an assumption of the proportions of disapproval to approval or indifference just by looking at this, or any, thread. There's probably a greater portion against than for, yes, though I'd say the portion of the playerbase that simply doesn't care either way is probably larger than both.

I'd say that the most latched onto complaint in this thread was more about conquest than the prestige system, but I'd have to count to be sure.

[Aphetoros]

Can everyone stop telling people that 'hurr, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.' I've seen it multiple times in these types of threads and it's rather silly. People will do things for the reasons they want to, it's not unreasonable for someone to be upset that a storyline they worked on is going to become worthless--fruitless. Yes, it'll be a great story and they'll have had fun writing it, they won't get to RP what they wanted to, though?

You know the feeling, I'm sure, of wanting something and then being let down. I'm sure it's happened to everyone at least once, no matter how minute. Hell, it's happened to me multiple times on this server itself! And yes, I'm upset and first. I get over it, but looking back on it still frustrates me. I don't even honestly know how to express myself in words with what I want to say. Perhaps I'll write a poem

But really, I can't explain what I'm trying to say.

[Grakor456]

Can everyone stop telling people that 'hurr, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.' I've seen it multiple times in these types of threads and it's rather silly. People will do things for the reasons they want to, it's not unreasonable for someone to be upset that a storyline they worked on is going to become worthless--fruitless. Yes, it'll be a great story and they'll have had fun writing it, they won't get to RP what they wanted to, though?

You know the feeling, I'm sure, of wanting something and then being let down. I'm sure it's happened to everyone at least once, no matter how minute. Hell, it's happened to me multiple times on this server itself! And yes, I'm upset and first. I get over it, but looking back on it still frustrates me. I don't even honestly know how to express myself in words with what I want to say. Perhaps I'll write a poem

I think folks are taking offense to something that wasn't meant to be offensive (and being the victim of the same rather often, I can relate.)

It's a matter of perspective. If I were told that I had to completely restart all of my characters for the restart, I'd just shrug and roll with it. After all, I had a good run with them, and I can start them over, tweak each character to make them a bit different and fix things that I think I did wrong with each. I suppose I'm simply saying that loss of progress isn't a big deal to me. I had fun on the journey, and if I start over I'll have fun starting them again. I RP because every aspect of it is fun, and if I'm not having fun, I'm doing something wrong. If it feels like I'm doing work, I simply stop, as it's not worth doing work during my free time.

Besides, I have enough work doing my Admin stuff, and my future college stuff, and the stuff I do at home.

Sometimes it's sad that stories don't get completed. That's, unfortunately, the nature of RP: sometimes it has to end without the conclusion that we want, but it has to conclude nonetheless. I don't think that the people who are disappointed about the loss of progress are wrong. I simply believe that sometimes you have to start over and begin a new story. Rather than be disappointed about the stories I can't complete (which, believe me, I have my own fair share) I choose to instead ponder the new stories that I can create with a fresh start.

That is, in my humble opinion, the best way to look at RP in general.

[Etmosril]

I'd like to focus on the work people have done on theirs. The majority of players have worked for months on the stories. Voluntary work - but only undertaken in order to reach a specific goal, and with the understanding that the goal would repay the effort. It doesn't sound different from 'regular' work. By removing prestiges, one completely discards months of careful planning, character development, and time spent writing. It seems that this work isn't valued.

But wasn't the time spent fun? If doing a prestige for people has be work or time consuming, why do it? If your reason isn't because you enjoy it, then you have been doing it for the wrong reasons.

It was fun. Which is one of the many reasons I object to taking it away.

[ThePharaoh]

As a side note, it seems I can describe two kinds of Roleplayers, a sort of 'black' and 'white' whilst ignoring the 'gray' areas. Micro and Macro Roleplayers.

Micro Roleplayers tend to focus their Roleplay around character interaction, the small details of actions, every little speck of their character and others. They seem to greatly enjoy Roleplay between themselves and another or maybe even a small group whilst shying away from larger gatherings due to feeling suffocated and insignificant. These Roleplayers can enjoy the day-to-day Roleplay greatly, rarely diverting from this due to the fact they don't take a liking to anything greatly significant.

Macro Roleplayers are more inclined to Roleplay adventures, large scale events and focus on what their characters do instead of how they do it alike a Micro Roleplayer would. Large groups are a magnet for these types of people and they tend to often wish for something more to do. Whether it be an adventure into the heart of Demon territory to destroy an Ere'dun or fighting a legion of Worgen on home turf, they are always up for and willing to partake in these. They have more of a tenancy to Roleplay characters based around fighting and adventure than trivial occupations.


It's safe to say I'm a Micro Roleplayer.

I think this is a broad generalization. Saying Macro roleplayers don't focus on minute details of their character isn't true.