Restricting RP! Rawr!

[Kretol]

So, now that the drama has let up for a bit, I think it's time to get some more opinions (but hopefully not more drama).

From what I've been reading in some folks' absence threads (and some folks' introduction threads on other forums), people seem to be of the impression that we are restricting roleplay like crazy. Therefore, I would like folks that have this opinion to elaborate on what precisely has influenced their view to this degree.

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?
Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?
Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?
Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)

Please elaborate!

[Aphetoros]

To be honest, I do believe many feel all of it plays a part. When you're RPing most people like something to happen, and as it were nothing major is happening. Sure, we get storylines every now and then that build up and up-- until they fall only because there is no change to accommodate them.

Booty Bay is plagued. After words, it never happened. Etc.,

I don't think the RPG books affect it too much, though I'm sure at least someone is sadfaise about it!

[Binkleheimer]

RPG books are irrelevant here. That's meant for a medium that isn't an MMO.

My RP has never felt too restricted. Then again, my rp is usually small time stuff.

Maybe some small conquest RP might be decent. Nothing huge though. Maybe the capture of some small island or so.

[Rosencrat]

More guilds. All you need is more guilds.

EDIT: I've been counting guilds as of late. There are only a finite number of active guilds on the server. That number drops when you see how many engage in 'open' RP, visa vi not cliquish. That number finally drops to zero when you see how many role-play in casual RP, what is required for character building beyond mindless violence.

Guilds give people a chance to role-play on a semi-regular basis. It allows them to make friends. It allows them to feel as if they are part of something bigger then themselves and that their characters can have an impact on the world around them. It creates role-playing opportunities, gives people a chance to evolve their characters and helps strengthen our server as a whole.

[Kretol]

Regarding things like the BB plague event -

I can understand how that would feel. A huge plague and then nothing to even show it was there after the event is done. Perhaps my (and Grak's) aversion to changing the world is a bit strong. Perhaps it's just the fact that we don't want to change somewhere and then have that place abandoned and never RPed at again. But I can understand that it'd be nice to see tangible signs of events having taken place.

Thanks for comments so far!

Another thing to add -
For folks that have experienced random interactions with NPCs (simple things like the NPCs talking to characters and reacting to them), how have opinions been? I know there's been some negative instances that could be seen as a GM trolling them (I would hope it wasn't intentional), but how have experiences been overall with that sort of thing?

[ImagenAshyun]

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?
Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?
Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?
Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)

Please elaborate!

Below risks of TL;DR.

Spoiler:

1.) I like the fact that the prestige system is being removed. Frankly, I have problems with people just posting their training and such but RP not being really the real influence of climbing the social/combat power ladder, with end results being not much more than roll bonuses and super duper power specialization. Yes, lore does exist for these prestige titles and specializations, but I'd rather those titles be recognized and earned via RP rather than simple posts, and also without the roll bonuses. Titles are awesome, but in real life, people earn titles because they did something for their people to earn them. I'm cool with special profiles for certain ranks, not so much using them to get power when you character started out as a whelp.

Prestige titles are cool, but a massive retool or complete removal gets kudos with me.

2.) No conquest RP, please. As much as this is a WoW RP server and conquest is what makes up WoW, implementing that in RP just invites more drama, plus it risks being open to godmodding everywhere. Just no. I like the current state of stagnation because it allows people to be more creative in how to handle the world for RP. You don't need war to get a good story.

3.) Now this one can be restricted to just our server. The thing about "not changing the world" does enforce a stagnation even I do not exactly approve. This is a private server, run by the people who use it. I don't encourage this server being fanservice (even I would hate that), but I would like everyone to take advantage of the fact that we're not public retail--we're just players in our own little world.

Instead of thinking in terms of changing WoW, I would rather encourage we make changes in -our- own world within WoW. Changing the lives of individuals, or societies formed in guilds. That is one of my goals with my current storyline: make a difference in the players' social groups by introducing a bad guy who threatens them. He doesn't have to have power equivalent to an endgame raid boss, he can just be a Joe Schmoe who knows his way around people. Our world can change, but it has to be -COTH's- world, not necessarily that of canon Wow lores. Thrall is still Thrall, Varian is still Varian, Arthas is still dead, Alliance still hates Horde, and Azeroth is, well, Azeroth. No need to change that.

4.) RPG books, IMO, are meant for tabletop RP. I'm okay with taking information from it, but really, the information provided in them is a lot more way out of the way than other reading material. Let's not bother.

[CappnRob]

Big events can happen that don't totally change the world, but still impact people.

Say there's an event where a legion of Stormwind soldiers raise a coup and take the city over. Now its up to the good Alliance soldiers to retake their city. In the end, the status quo is restored, but the RP still feels like you're making a difference. I beleive this could be a good compromise between "changing" the world and not.

[Kaghuros]

It's prestige removal that makes me curious about this. What happens when those are gone? I know we're no longer allowed to play Necromancers and Runemasters, so where will the boundary be afterwards? I happen to think that the complete ban on anything non-base-class is draconian and unnecessary, and limits people to what they can see ingame rather than what they can imagine. It might be a good idea to let people submit variants as a special profile so that they can play specific roles that they find interesting or worth exploring and characterizing.

For instance: I rolled up Aun'la, my Draenei, because I've never seen anyone explore the ideas of the Naaru technology gifted to their race. However, the Draenei and Naaru use technology that both uses magic as a power source and appears similar to magic when used properly. I'm never sure what's okay to play to when I do play her. Will I be skirting the edge of Technomage or soon-to-be changed prestige territory if she ever comes to understand how to re-create some of the devices she scavenges? Will I not be able to do that if the server restarts? I can play other characters, but the idea of her trying to master technology and science she barely understands is really fun to play out. Add to that the fact that this is an entirely unexplored area of roleplay for most people on the server and it becomes a point of great interest for me.

I'd love to write a guide to Naaru tech from an IC perspective for anyone who wanted to follow Aun's path, if she ever finishes her research, and that kind of trailblazing into unexplored lore territory can be really beneficial to the setting if done responsibly. I did the same with Kaghuros when I wrote the Grunt guide and similarly with Felin when I wrote the demon guide. Most of that stuff was made up by me based on known Orcish rites, quest text, and a large dash of my own characters.



As for random NPCs, I've been on the giving and receiving end of that, and I find it quite enjoyable. Sometimes it was fun to kick back in a city and play a bartender, and it's always neat to see a bit more life in the world than what we're used to. I do recall an arena fight I watched just last week performed by a certain Earthshaker Clan that was quite enjoyable.

[Reigen]

I hope this all makes sense, I haven't slept in 30 hours so my words might not be 100% coherent. If there's any questions about what i mean, or want of further explanation, lemmi know and I'll try again when more awake.

And just so you know, this doesn't mean I hate anyone. This is an opinion that doesn't change my personal views of anyone at all. I <3 you all.

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?

Spoiler:

I admit, though I saw it coming, it angered me which caused me to say and type some things I sorely regret saying/typing. I can only hold my mellow for so long before it bursts.

It bothered me a bit too much about how it was sort of discarded for what seems to be rather odd reasons. It feels to me like they had to be removed because of a few people's dislike of them, and that they new system hadn't been given a chance. I also felt like there was no play input about this, not any punishment given out to the unseen abusers in which Rose's thread talked about. To be honest, I would have liked a more gentle way of telling as well, rather then the sudden "Oh by the way" method. I kept quiet about it because I didn't want to offend anyone with my thoughts as well as I wanted to see what this possible alternative system might be before I become one of the doomsday predictors.

I was hurt at all the heavy implications about how it was only being done for power. That was not the case for what I was writing at all and it really killed my want to keep writing at all, least it be seen as 'Oh, she only writes for power!'. Yeah, it cut me deep even if it wasn't meant for me. I could really care less about roll bonuses, never wanted them. I like trusting better. I feel trust battles gives me a better way to get across my characters strengths and weaknesses. To flat out imply that everyone was only in it for the power...it upset me. Again, I held it in because I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[Oh no, hurt feelings over the internet!]

Will I be upset if there -isn't- an alternative system? Slightly. I'll get over it though, it's near impossible for me to say angry over such a thing. It might give me a chance to change a character around, a character that is currently stuck.

Do I want prestiges to stay? Yes, but not in the way they are currently.

Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?

Spoiler:

Conquest RP would be nice, but always confusion for new players to learn custom lore. I -do- wish that phasing thing would come into effect though so that way area's could be made into bases, homes and random IC towns that are scattered across the world. I really don't think there is just one town in all of Elwyn forest.

This phasing thing could also allow us to conquer random towns without too much of a harsh effect. Random town in...Barrens perhaps. Alliance comes in and takes it over, Horde comes back and kicks some rear. This way, 'lore towns' aren't effected, but people still get their fix.

I like what Rigley did with the stonetalon events, how there was minor conquest, but everything was pushed back to the way it was before though RP. Thus, it didn't really effect lore, as not ever little battle is mentioned in the history books.

Though...perhaps if we know we're going to get cata...a few events to conquer the areas that are conquered in Cata? That might be nice. It could give players the sense of actually doing something and it meaning something, without having to alter Blizzard's lore.

Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?

Spoiler:

Once more, as much as I would love this, it's always confusing for new players to learn custom stuff. Not ever battle is in the history books. There is the fact that Blizzard has really stopped caring about their own lore, so breaking off might not be so bad at one point.

It would be nice to have our actions mean something, so when they do die, they mean something other than being a name carved into a stone. For our characters gained reputation to actually mean something in the world would be -awesome-.Once more, it is something I can live without if just for the ease of new players.

Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)

Spoiler:

Never read the RPG books, so this has no effect on me!

Lack of player involvement in the decisions made.

Spoiler:

This is what really bugs me.

Decisions are normally made without player input. I feel as if most of the times our opinions don't really mean anything, even if that's far from the truth. Even a simple thread letting us know what's going on in the minds of the GMs and a chance to state our case would be nice, rather than these decisions just being sprung on us. It would make at least me feel better if my voice was heard before a decision where it could make a difference rather than after, when it doesn't matter. On these other forums that you speak of, the GM boards are open for all to see, and there is a place where we can post a discussion about it if it is felt to be needed. Such a thing thrilled me to no end because they could hear from players as a debate was going on.

Their voices could be heard.

For what I feel is restricted?

Spoiler:

I feel you say no before someone is given a chance to prove themselves or their concept. It's as if only the cons can come to the surface. I have always been turned away about how concepts are so easily rejected by one group, but then accepted by another group without allowing the first to prove themselves.

I've always felt that if the story is compelling enough, then it should be allowed. What's the worst that can happen? If they abuse it, they get in trouble and lose the ability to do such a thing again. Different things should be embraced, not turned away because it might tweak a lore that has already been twisted and broken by Blizzard for on the spot 'cool shiny things' that they come up with.

If I wanted Blizzard lore, I'd play a Blizzard server and do the quests to keep in with the story. While I agree that it should monitored and followed, it should be done within reason. There are many gaps within lore that would allow us to expand while staying within the limits of 'official' lore. Such gaps should be embraced as a good thing that could open up new opportunities, rather than bad and restricted.

Sometimes you gotta take a risk and see where it leads you. Reach out blind and see what your hand touches. For all you know, one might touch gold instead of fire.

[Rigley]

It is quite late, but I have formulated a post nonetheless!

You'll have to excuse my inane rambling. I'm rather fatigued, and it is taking all of my effort not to make stupid typos and accidentally face-desk to sleep.

...As such, not all of this may be relevant. Sorry, again.

Spoiler:

I've always been of the impression that some conquest RP might be rather enjoyable-- I believe before I proposed that we use phasing for such a thing, and perhaps keep it in check with events for hostile NPCs to reclaim the settled areas, should there be a lack of RP there.

Call the lack of RP the gradual fall of security on the area- they loosen their grip, and the hostiles retake it.


I'm also of the mind to look into stuff such as pre-cata expansion (a la Stonetalon's base goal); I would love to do a Forsaken storyline in Hillsbrad to that effect.


But, I must say that I've never quite understood the supposed restrictions on RP. I've seen people complain that being a non-prestige allows them to be beaten up by farmers... but does anyone here actually play a farmer, and if so do they actively engage them in combat? The scale of power is that of an adventurer, not of a peasant (who I would assume would take firebolts and death coils in a much less stoic manner), and to be honest that's what I usually see people roleplaying to begin with.

As well I'm not sure how to regard a lack of character involvement after an event such as the one that resulted in Asholme. On the subject matter of events though I would say that one of the worst offenders here is the lack of events being put forth; people may assume that their event concepts may not work, but you'll never really know unless you run it by the team.

Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?

I always have felt that the status of the character amongst other characters means more in the long run than a few doodads spawned in a city or anything like that. After all you may have people told later 'this statue of an octopus is here because of Rigley', but will they really care or get the significance unless their character was actually there to witness the battle of the sharktoturtaoctopus?

I don't know where I was going with this. I guess that world changes aren't as important as character reputation amongst other characters. The same has always been that way for prestiges to me; It seems the title demands the respect, not the actions behind them.

...God its late, good night.

[ptdapen]

I apologize if I'm restating what other people have said but I'm too tired to read everyone's posts in depth. Anyhow, here goes:

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?
This is somewhat restricting. We do not all have to gain mucho power but it'd be welcome if we could still gain something unique. As I said in the prestige thread there's no class that can encapsulate a demon hunter, necromancer, and others. So I'd say it doesn't restrict characters but the removal of the system definitely rids us of some options.

Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?
I believe the word conquest RP is given a negative connotation for the wrong reason. It doesn't always have to be PvP, but perhaps I'm just misinformed. My personal wish is for the players to be able to take part in, say, fighting the Scourge/Burning Legion. Yes, perhaps some things already took part in lore but it'd be interesting to have a part in it. No, I'm not saying the community has to be the ones who killed Arthas or Illidan. However if the GMs commanded the evil forces and allowed us to combat them I would certainly enjoy it. If anyone has ever RPed with Calleda they'll know she's wanted to take over the Ghostlands for a long time. Like completely cleanse it. I can't see why there'd be much drama over this honestly. But in general its hard to play a warrior/soldier character who does nothing but sit around and chatter.

Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?
If we had a battle, even if it didn't change much, it'd be nice to see that it had an effect. Maybe if NPCs talked about how miserable they are due to the damages or such. In terms of the plague at Booty Bay the economy could be devastated, etc.

Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)
I don't have a problem with these. They offer a good basis to revolve the server around. I trust it more than WoW lore.

[Kira13]

More guilds. All you need is more guilds.

More people. *shrug*

[Zarquon]

Yes, RP is indeed being restricted. I shall not explicate upon the questions, since many above me had already given the answers j would have as well. I would, however, add that te lack of customization and the feeling that you actually did anything to change anything in the server is a distinct problem. The world comes to life due to its dynamism. A lack of dynamism creates a dead, barren world that remains the same, frozen in a particular point in time.

I honestly feel that, 'Newcomers having to learn the custom lore.' isn't a good reason -not- to change the world. There is actually some magic and fascination involved when you enter a server and find they, 'Hey, it isn't just like WoW, but is different and progresses.' CoTH needs a form of global progression, in my humble opinion, a method in which to progress rather than to remain in what I feel is an era of stagnation.

. . .what happened to Rigley?

[Avitz]

I think its time for my two pence on this matter, if not CoTH in general, I've been waaaay to quiet on the matter. Bare with me on the fact that this is me pretty much hitting my head against the keyboard. Its pretty much all my jumbled thoughts on things.

*Inhale*

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?

Spoiler:

In short, I wouldn't be surprised if most people flag this as a 'Yes'. But honestly...I'm not sure. The reasons have been flagged on regards to player characters being too powerful and its understandable why you'd want to stop that. I'll continue at the bottom as to a way I thought of powerful characters getting some good old rp.

In my opinion though? No removal of prestiges didn't make this server seem restrictive.

Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?

Spoiler:

Yes and no. Whilst Conquest RP would be fun...there's too much that makes me think its going to cause some bother. PVPRP for me has always ended up being one or two things, the sorts where both conflicting groups have a vague idea in how it will end (One or the other flees to lick their wounds, other one has a party at their house) or...the nasty sorts. 'Bonus this', 'my character is that', 'The DM's word is final'. Unfortunatly, in a conquest rp, I'd unfortunatly think that latter would more likely occur...Since the attackers would want to make their attack worth it...and the defenders likewise want to keep their turf. Not to mention if the attackers raid at a time where most players on the defence wouldn't be even...say...Awake, thats going to cause alot of anger.

Once again, something else i'd like to say about such...later though /cackle.

Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?

This will be spoiler free...not much to say. Whilst it would be nice, its understandable you'd want to keep the server as blizz like as possible. (Until this constantly over-hyped restart shows its true face and a date of it happening...)

Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)

No. In my opinon.

Now...Onto 'If I had complete power, what I'd do to change the server'

'Powerful Characters'

Spoiler:

- Whilst World of Warcraft lore doesn't directly mention the players...it does mention the 'Adventurers'. Why not allow people to play as these nameless 'Hero's'? Don't assume me too quickly mind...as I think there should be some restrictions, but at least this would allow people to at least be involved in some of the more epic things that go on in the world...like the siege of icecrown...the expedition into Ulduar...or maybe...A certain Nexus War that got canned last restart? >:3

Anyway...restrictions.

- Players would be only able to have one 'Hero' Character.
- The heroic deeds of these characters would be anonymous. You never see the lore characters shout out every characters name at the end of a raid in the game, and it'd be likely they wouldn't give them much credit anyway...that way players wouldn't be able to use their 'fame' to their advantage.
- 'Hero's' would be kept on a short leash, maybe even stuck to a plot line that they can't leave, lead by some G/DMs.

Anyway...this is just a idea that might stop peeps thinking this server is too restrictive...

Conquest RP - An idea.

Spoiler:

Consider this...what if the conquest rp was taken to a completely unique to coth place (Even if its just on those endless flats you can encounter if you were to fly out the maps.). Put down a few towns scattered across a area...Maybe give certain guilds control of some to begin with. Sounds pretty regular...but what if we copied something from Retail in the form of how they handle Wintergrasp and the like. What I Mean to say is...why not make it so that towns could only be captured at certain times in a week/month for whatever reason seems ideal. That way, characters can freely go to other places without fear people are going to take their land at random and it ensures those who don't want to be involved, are not affected.

One final thought though on why people think coth has become restrictive before I hide from the new post button...Simply put, look at how much has been 'removed' recently. Living Death Knights, New Runemasters/Necros and then eventually the prestiges themselves on the verge of going also. As we've seen, people have disliked these changes greatly...and its those that are pretty much saying Coth's become a dictatorship, because of these 'out of the blue' changes.

Anyway...that concludes everything I want to say...*Exhale*

[Delta]

I don't think a [ quote ] tag exists which would let me quote Reigen hard enough.

Is it the announcement of the impending prestige system removal?

I have had the chance to roleplay with every nearly actively played prestige character there is, here. It's been more engaging and inspiring than I can express in words, but I... I have never had the chance to play such a character myself.
I don't need to explain what a sting it is to have my feet swept out from under me after being given the go-ahead, and I haven't got the heart nor the courage to say exactly why in public.

As I chose a prestige class that has no hope of variation, being a straightforward ascension, I am looking at one of two options for my character.
Retcon is the path most are going to take, and yes, I would not be cutting out much progress, but my sentiments on the matter?

To have loved and lost...

As such, I don't think it's the road for me.

Perhaps the denial of conquest RP?
Or maybe the lack of the world being changed by every character's actions?

These things never bothered me, actually.
Stonetalon was, for me, the quintessential example of war roleplay that doesn't muddy the waters. Conquest isn't win or lose, there's always a grey area.
You could invest belief in something and make a difference without the world collapsing in around you.

Then again, the opinion of someone who enjoys losing and tragedy is probably not the best place to look for explanation.

Or could it be us no longer considering the RPG books canon? (We're simply following Blizzard on this)

Where prestiges are concerned, a tailored system was the way to go. However, there's a lot of flavour lore in there that I wouldn't disregard as being false.
There are few honest sources that give such a detailed understanding of Azeroth, and I think to abandon it on the grounds that it's only an educated guess is a naive route to take.

For folks that have experienced random interactions with NPCs (simple things like the NPCs talking to characters and reacting to them), how have opinions been? I know there's been some negative instances that could be seen as a GM trolling them (I would hope it wasn't intentional), but how have experiences been overall with that sort of thing?

These made my day. Even before their primary puppeteer was floating around with server sorcery, I thoroughly enjoyed everything they concocted.
Westfall - as it turns out, gnolls really will fight over anything. Their shadows included.
Having a casual conversation in Azshara, surrounded by Naga? You can bet the Naga had a thing or two to say.
Strut right past a drake? She's not going to turn a blind eye, is she?

There was so much more I had the great fortune to be a part of, and I thanked the perpetrator personally each time in remark of how fun it was.

On executive decisions being, well, executed.

No, the world's not going to end, nor is CotH about to, but I strongly disagree and implore the ones responsible to reconsider.