Help me, CotHi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope.

[JVNemesis]

On-topic rambles are good. I enjoyed it. Some interesting points.

Although I was chuckling as your TL; DR got longer, and longer and longer.
And longer.

[JVNemesis]

Now that I started asking questions I just can't stop.

Bump.

Now that the Lich King's kicked the bucket, would it be possible to play a Death Knight that was not freed during the battle for Light's Hope? As in, a Knight who's been in the service of the Scourge since being raised all the way to Arthas's demise? Would it be possible/plausible for some undead to wrest back their free will in the few moments between Arthas dying and Bolvar putting on the Helm of Domination/Dominion/whatever it's called?

I'm curious.

Edit: And therefore not Ebon Blade-aligned, although it's not like this would be obvious to very many people.

[Sol]

Stuff.

It's not my place to answer this in relation to Conquest of the Horde, but my initial in reaction is yes, yes, yes. I've always RPed (well, on Retail, and since Lichfall, at least) that a significant chunk of the Scourge broke free during those moments and became the subjects and servants of various petty lich-lords, renegade death knights and the like. This is how I mentally explain the continued aggression of several supposedly pacified Scourge NPCs after ICC and after the Cataclysm. In fact, I co-led a guild that was based around this concept on Retail during my sojourn back there a couple months ago.

To me, it seems only reasonable. Every time the Lich King's control over the Scourge has been weakened in the lore, some have broke free. It started with the Forsaken when Illidan was attacking Icecrown, and was subsequently followed with the Knights of the Ebon Blade when Arthas stepped on holy ground. I think that more Scourge breaking free when the Lich King, you know, died is another logical progression in this pattern. And it seems especially reasonable that Death Knights, who retained most of their higher cognition and would therefore be more difficult to control than the average zombies, would have been able to break free where lesser Scourgelings perhaps would not.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, you have to keep in mind that when the Forsaken and the majority of other Undead broke free, the Lich King was damaged for a long time. Long enough for Arthas to bat through the initial Illidari and still be able to take him. And the second time it happened, the majority of who broke away were in the immediate vicinity of the Lich King, plus the Lich King was on consecrated ground and was smited with one of the holiest weapons around. So, yea. Keep that in mine.

[JVNemesis]

Well, you have to keep in mind that when the Forsaken and the majority of other Undead broke free, the Lich King was damaged for a long time. Long enough for Arthas to bat through the initial Illidari and still be able to take him. And the second time it happened, the majority of who broke away were in the immediate vicinity of the Lich King, plus the Lich King was on consecrated ground and was smited with one of the holiest weapons around. So, yea. Keep that in mine.

I feel like his death would be an equally disruptive event, if not more so. The connection's not just interrupted, it's severed.
So I guess, anyway.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, that's the problem. Whereas the first one was that way for a long time, and the second was kind of long (as he had to recuperate), this one was short, as the Lich King was quickly taken over by Bolvar, in about a minute or so.

[JVNemesis]

But during the first two he still maintained some control of the Scourge, didn't he? After his death, there was some time (granted, less than a minute, but still) where all of the undead were free, right?

Edit: I end my questions with 'no' a lot.

[FlyingSquirrel]

The Undead's control is connected to the Helm of Dominion, not the actual wielder of said helm.

[JVNemesis]

So why does Arthas being weakened hurt his control over them more than him being dead, if it's the helm that matters?

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'd presume it'd have something to do with the mass of Light that surged into him.

[Sol]

The Helm of Dominion's powers were progressively draining away when Illidan attacked Northrend. Arthas was required to don the helm so Ner'zhul could retain/regain his powers, I believe. Hypothetically, therefore, being without a host body (i.e. Arthas) for any length of time may have reduced Ner'zhul's powers to the level they were just before Arthas broke the Frozen Throne, until he gained another host (i.e. Bolvar). This could facilitate Scourge breaking free Forsaken-style quite easily, if we're to follow this line of thinking.

The Light's Hope thing probably involved something like the Light/Holy energy (partially and temporarily) counterbalancing the Lich King's Shadow/Unholy energy-based powers.

[Aphetoros]

The Scourge has no control right now, other than Bolvar being like, "Hey. Don't you attack them people." The Scourge is essentially infighting with the Scourgelords vying for dominance.

[flammos200]

Now that I started asking questions I just can't stop.

Bump.

Now that the Lich King's kicked the bucket, would it be possible to play a Death Knight that was not freed during the battle for Light's Hope? As in, a Knight who's been in the service of the Scourge since being raised all the way to Arthas's demise? Would it be possible/plausible for some undead to wrest back their free will in the few moments between Arthas dying and Bolvar putting on the Helm of Domination/Dominion/whatever it's called?

I'm curious.

Edit: And therefore not Ebon Blade-aligned, although it's not like this would be obvious to very many people.

It is. I've asked when I was confronted with the same decision, in a character creation process. And there are precedents.

Anyhow, the thing is, I'm unsure if non-Ebon Blade Death Knights'd be allowed, so you ~might~ want to have the potential character ally with the Ebon Blade eventually.

/salute.

[JVNemesis]

I shall keep that in mind. Thanks again for your input, everyone.

[JVNemesis]

I am insatiable. Here's another salvo.

Death Knight plagues. With the freeform system we can make new spells, so would it be acceptable for us to create new/variant plagues as well, with some IC work? Nothing game-breaking (the ones we have are already pretty effective IC, or should be at least) but it's something my Knight is interested in pursuing.

Resurrecting undead. So to speak. When you're trying to resurrect an undead player, how much of their original corpse is needed?
Bit of a vague question, I suppose. Basically, if a player's corpse is burned to ash, can you still resurrect him? Or if you only have, say, his arm, can you...transplant it, I suppose, onto another corpse, and resurrect him from there?
This is...still pretty vague, even for me. Feel free to just speculate.

Undead minions. Though WoW only allows us to control a single ghoul at a time, is it reasonable to assume that we can ICly control/create more than a single ghoul at a time, particularly for Unholy-specialized Knights? I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary, but that could just be poor reading comprehension, I suppose. There's always Army of the Dead to fall back on, so I pretty much just answered my own question, but...thoughts are still welcome.

The above ties into this next topic, which I've been thinking about for quite a while now: Controlling Undead!
I could go into my long DnD-inspired thought process (cough Rod of Undead Mastery cough)about how I got to this idea, but I'll spare you that...mess.
So!
If DKs control their ghouls with their minds (pardon the gross simplification), given the right focus item, I guess, could they extend that control over minions they didn't raise?
Basically, would it be possible to create an item (through much IC effort/events) that would allow a DK to cast the equivalent of a Charm/Mind Control spell on those roaming undead I mentioned previously/other summoned ghouls? It's something I've been thinking about since I posed that question a while back. If we're feeling particularly generous, could this effect be extended to players as well, if appropriate rules for its execution were in place?
Or is this a bad idea and I should feel bad about it?

Any thoughts/feedback anyone has are welcome.