Slaving and Sensitive Issues

[Holynexus]

I support this fully. Slavery is something that should always be discussed, OOCly. Without getting into sexual stuff, it is a critical issue, there are some around here, and can make people truly uncorfortable. I mean it beyond homophobism or racism or sexism or whatever, (which are touchy issues) - lack of agreement on slavery moreso than many other power exchanges can lead to a lot of trouble and bad bad stuff, on all sides. (And I tend to think the more hardcore it gets the direr the consequences).

I might disgress, but an issue that also irks me, which is the opposite issue, is slave buyers releasing slaves right after buying them. I find this rather frustrating, so I guess what happens after the transaction should be discussed beforehand - even if it relates to freeing the slave or something like that. :|

[Wuvvums]

Solinax, I believe your solution is not only too much busy work, but also a little confrontational and goes directly into the issue of sensitive areas. I shouldn't have to give every one of the members a questionnaire asking what is too much for them. For some, being direct about ERP and sex slave things would in fact make things a little more uncomfortable than what it is.

Even if you skip the ERP it doesn't remove the implications that the character has been sexually victimized and that itself can be bothersome and make the player uncomfortable. And they shouldn't have to weigh these options just to get what is a rather broad genre of rp.

Finally I think this comes back to the problem at hand, people have been telling me to change the course of my guild because they don't think I've been doing slave rp the right way. The thing is there was not any issues of uncomfortable positions until people starting pressing saying that I should break slaves, or telling me what to do with other player's characters. The thing is we have something worked out and we have a plan for everyone. It's not up to you to tell me how to run the guild and deal with what should be non-issues because they should be private matters.

[solinax]

First off, Wuvvums, when did i ever tell you how to run your guild? I made suggestions. If you are a person who dislikes such suggestions, that's an entirely different thing. If that's the case, don't blame me for things i have not done.

[Wuvvums]

I'd like this to be dropped, please.

[solinax]

Peace out and have a nice day/night.

[Zarquon]

I might disgress, but an issue that also irks me, which is the opposite issue, is slave buyers releasing slaves right after buying them. I find this rather frustrating, so I guess what happens after the transaction should be discussed beforehand - even if it relates to freeing the slave or something like that. :|

And for that reason alone do I always make sure my character chooses carefully whom he purchase, if ever. It becomes such a downer for the other party since it actually truncates the development of his or her character. The key is to understand OOC-ly that there is no point in picking up the other player's character if you are unable to take on the mantle of responsibility for providing the RP beyond that point.

As for the main issue, I agree.

[Wuvvums]

I usually tell people OOCly that we don't want any free-ers and it usually helps to only accept IC currency. But the point of the island too is to provide some rp if you can't get the right owner/master immediately. I think now we're at the point where we got a few good slaves not for sale that there's a social aspect of the island. Unfortunately some people act like there's a problem because there are no slaves for sale when I was trying to stress a social aspect of the island and guild.

[Holynexus]

Yep, this is my point, Zarquon. As much as having a slaved character does not imply OOC control, it also does not imply OOC "shame" or something. It is roleplay.

[Jonoth]

Just to add my two cents, for people less comfortable actually RPing out certain situations, you also have an option, if both parties agree, to decide that certain things are going on in-between RPs. For example, me and my RP partner agree that between the last time we RPed and now, my char abused the hell out of theirs. Their char RPs having the bruises and/or a broken bone, and maybe after discussion we say the bruises happened because of XYZ. So instead of RPing the act, you RP the aftermath. You can do this for abuse of non-sexual and/or sexual nature, and if you are uncomfortable with details OOC you can easily use the same excuse IC to explain why you can't talk about exactly what happened. It's much the same way you handle having a kid IC without them existing as a char. You just assume the parenting happens off-panel. So in this case, the parties could agree that certain abuse happens off-panel. But if you both agree and want to actually RP it out, that's a perfectly legit option as previously stated.

[SachikoMaeda]

I've got two slaves, all of which were slaved with OOC consent from the slaver, the buyer, and myself. All outlines were set at slaving and at selling. These OOC understandings of everyone's limitations lead to very, very fun RP and great character development. You can't do anything without an OOC understanding of the person playing the other character. There are certain mindsets that just flat out make people uncomfortable. Everyone's got their limits. It's always wise to understand them.

I can understand both sides, to be honest, but I think a good OOC basis and discussion prior to any slave situation should be treated much like a character maiming and/or death. It should only be done with full consent of both parties. Plain and simple. I mean, it's respectful. And the first rule of the server is respect!

[landashua]

I'm of the opinion that a person should ask themselves what they're comfortable with before rolling a slave character. If they're not comfortable with every topic at play here, public beatings (Even if they occur in a private channel,) torture, forced drug use, forced sex, forced killings, and maimings up to and including the death of the character, then they shouldn't roll a slave character.

That said, I still think there should be OOC communication before any of these things happen, but the slave-character must be OOCly aware that they would have little choice in the matter on an IC level. The communications should be less "Are you okay with this?" and more "Are you okay with this right now?" - It should be assumed the slave's player has an objective enough view to, if not enjoy, at least understand the things that are happening to their character. But due to time constraints, real life business, or just generally not being in the mood at that time, one should never assume everyone is okay with the events OOCly at that exact moment.

The slave owning player should also have a basic understanding of the effects mistreatment can have on a character or player, that they may never be the same after you whip them or force them into any amoral action. They should also be considerate of the slave player's OOC wishes and work to schedule RP for a better time. I know from first hand experience that sometimes, not all RP is good for you all the time. When my uncle was in the hospital I found it hard to ICly discuss death, and made that known to the others OOCly. I still went on with the discussion, but after it was established that we just wouldn't go into too much detail that particular time.

I'm not saying make a slave to be a sex toy or to get your fetish kicks in for the night, but be willing to subject that character to every taboo subject you can imagine. If you can't, then maybe slavery isn't right for you. And that's not to say your slave is a mindless drone that only does what your master tells, if your slave wants to draw a line and make a stand for something he feels is true, be prepared for the consequences that come with that action. You can't spit in your master's face and expect to get away with it because you're "OOCly uncomfortable with whippings," because that kills the RP, an RP which you agreed to when you rolled a slave character.

As for public beatings? I feel that a slave getting beat down with a cane wouldn't be ignored, and as such shouldn't be confined to a private channel. Go through the motions in a public channel, spread the gory details in private. It doesn't have to be a detailed occurrence in the public channel, you could just say over general "As a note, so and so is getting beaten by such and such." or do a vague emote that would make anyone who can see you aware of what's really happening.

[Wuvvums]

It doesn't matter if the character is a slave or not, the circumstances shouldn't bypass the OOC control someone has on their character.

By this logic we should also assume that general adventure should subjugate you to anything that could happen regardless of the slave position or not. For example, there have been rapist characters made, but I am certain this does not mean that they are entitled to violate another person's character ICly if they were in a situation to do so, such as venturing outside the bay alone. I also feel like this has a disproportionate affect on female characters, because I've been seeing some groups and players single out female characters for this specific type of abuse.

I shouldn't have to be barred from a certain roleplay because I feel uncomfortable with some of the outcomes. The thing is these outcomes can be avoided and we can make up reasons for avoiding them. There's just no reason for something like sexual situations to happen at all if one of the parties does not want it to. And if I, and other players are making an effort to try and make the rp environment comfortable, then why shouldn't someone come in on the roleplay assuming they won't be in any uncomfortable situations?

And it really comes down to is why? Why can't someone be a work slave or a gladiator slave instead of a sex slave? Is it because they are a human or elven female? Is it because someone really likes the idea of violating other characters? And if someone doesn't want to participate in that, they shouldn't. There are SO many more options for rp and our island has demonstrated that there's a lot of fun rp there without having to get into uncomfortable or abusive situations.

[Zhaei]

I agree with most of your points, Wuvvums, although the point about not having to engage in certain roleplay because of OOC implications I have to agree with Landashua. I believe that all roleplay should stem from characters and character development, and if I buy a slave and my character is likely to cause gore/sexual situations I assume that the slave in question would be okay with it. I don't agree with characters being created solely for certain situations on either slave or slaver end, and I frown upon the idea of a slave bought solely for sex, but if your character would do that, then go ahead, it's not against the rules.

[Wuvvums]

Don't assume that people are going to be alright with everything your slaver does; ask first.

I'm not saying don't rp something because of OOC implications, I am saying be mindful of other players who are uncomfortable about it. Move it to private chat if someone asks, and be respectful to their requests.

[Xigo]

To make a note, a player can back out of anything that may offend him or her.

You really should discuss whether or not your character will be ERPing with another before hand. Some people don't like ERP. Some people find it weird or awkward or just plain silly to spend 2 hours writing about something like that. So ask someone else before engaging in it. Don't just spring it upon them.

The same applies to rape or torture or other sensitive subjects. Warn people before you do it. I don't care if it's not against the server rules, you're being a jerk by not giving others the heads up.

If you choose to not tell someone that you intend to use their slave character for sex, and then spring that little fact on them, that player has every right to remove that character from the roleplay, inform a GM, and retcon everything. -These things must be discussed before hand-.

EDIT: It's not their duty as slaves to be open to everything. It's your duty as someone with a character who owns slaves to know what they're comfortable with.

It's like having a dominant submissive relationship.

Gotta care for your partner, it's not all about you.