Slaving and Sensitive Issues

[Wuvvums]

I guess I wanted to bring this up because of my experience with some of the slave rp for the past couple of days. Some of the topics may be sensitive as the title implies, so if it's something that makes you uncomfortable, then please, feel free to look away. None of you have to read this.

I have gotten some OOC requests for my slaving rp lately and have seen some IC things that at times don't make me feel comfortable. Some of it I have talked out with folks and we were able to come to a consensus that it's okay to have this sort of rp but to move it to private chat. I guess this is my sort of thread to say that some of these things should be kept private, depending on the genre and implication.

First: Breaking

People have advised me OOC that I should break or torture slaves. The thing is I really don't see the point in inflicting pain upon them unless they are persistently unruly or acting up. I believe more in reward and punishment. Sometimes Tazzek does something cruel but that is more because he wants to vent his rage or because he wants to heal himself with blood. Sometimes he does a cruel thing more for amusement, like as if it's child play too.

I don't have a particular goal to torture people on the island. The position of being a slave alone and having to be subordinate is one interesting to me without the need to inflict endless pain. Not to mention the rp gets redundant at times when it's just sessions of cruelty. Cruelty itself, I feel, is more a quality of torture porn or fetish domination. In short, I feel like these are more a preference than a requirement for a good slave roleplay. For me personally intimidation or bullying is enough and I don't really enjoy the cliche of having to whip, spank, or what have you for the slaves.

It's also a little gratuitous at times and can make people uncomfortable. Therefore if you want to have a session of what is just fetish-like cruelty then it may be best to keep it to private or party chat.

Second: Sex Slaves

I haven't had a lot of this request but I did get someone asking me ICly for sex slaves and I sort of worked my way around it with my troll's attitudes and values. Now I know this does exist in WoW but it's not a very comfortable thing. I think one thing to mention is that all parties should be comfortable, including the slave. Definitely talk it out with the other character you're wishing to buy.

Second you may not want to make it known IC that you are intending to buy the slave for sex. Likewise you may not want to let others know that you intend to make a slave to use for ERP. These implications should be kept somewhat private and in private chat. And, again, they should be worked out among the parties. I don't mind if someone wants to make an ERP slave or something but please keep it private.

Third: Parallels to History and the Real World

Please don't make any parallels to this rp and real life. This mainly came up with the topic of "breaking" a slave and someone talked about historical references with how slave masters were. Fine, but we aren't trying to make our rp like that. Human trafficking was, and always will be, an extremely sensitive issue and one of the greatest social injustices. It's not a topic that should be thrown around lightly, especially when discussing the context of roleplay.


That is it for now. I just wanted to get these things off my chest and hopefully future rpers can keep this in mind when doing slave rp.

[mimloopen]

Well said! I'd type a witty response but I don't really have one... I do understand your post though. I for one don't really like to see a bunch of torture or borderline sexual cruelty in public chat :<

[DaveM]

On Sex Slaves and RP: I think it's fine to depict a sex slave in open-world-RP as it would show up in a movie appropriate to minors. Nothing remotely explicit. If you want ERP with a sex-slave, then that should be a consenting party and in private.

Common-sense, right?

Edit add: Sex-Slave char =/= ERP slave

[Wuvvums]

I guess it depends on how it's done. Surely though asking for one IC assumes that we are selling at least one of our slaves for ERP, which I don't do, and I can't magically know if the other people OOC are fine with it either. I just think that it's your business and you need to work it out with the appropriate parties because it can't be assumed that it's alright to browse solely for ERP slaves.

[CappnRob]

What should stay private is only what would be private in real life. Example, if two people are banging each other in their own room, the others outside probably would not hear or know about it. Take that to a private chat, because the other denizens of Stormwind or Orgrimmar should not know how you're putting your whatever into their whichever from across the street.

Other than that, it's all open game. Yeah, people beating the crap out of slaves and torturing them publicly can be uncomfortable, but that's what happens sometimes. You can ask them to take it to private, but they're not obligated to comply. But that's just me.

As for discussing real life crap, that's just always endless drama no matter what the topic is and should just be avoided, especially in a RP. If you want to justify why your character is a horrible goddamn person, do so after the RP, not during, because noone likes a RP stagnating because you stirred up the bee's nest in the freakin' raidchat.

[Wuvvums]

Actually the rules say specifically, "Generally, any type of RP is allowed, AS LONG AS EVERY PARTICIPANT IS COMFORTABLE WITH IT."

If someone is uncomfortable with the rp I think people should be obliged to move it to a private setting like party chat or private chat. Some of us don't feel good seeing that kind of rp. Uncomfortable rp is a bit different from rp you just don't like. Rp you don't like you should simply ignore, but the kinds that make it so you don't feel good or comfortable can be problematic.

[Jester]

Of course it should stay in private.

I might haven't got what you mean at all.. And never -ever- RPed with a slave before. Not that I don't find it interesting, but didn't happen.
Actually it happened once before, but it was a weird experience. People didn't RP it properly, they RP'd it only to get laid in-game. And that happened on an ex-server I've been into.

But anyway.. If you want to RP with a slave, of course you can make public emotes, as long as it stays to normal RP, right? I mean like.. Hitting, to order the slave, make him/her obey -- anything like that. But not to order the slave fall to her knees and *cough*. You know. -That- should stay in private.

But about the rest, like hitting and etc, I believe it might be fine to be "public".

That's from me.

P.S Oh.. And about "requesting" a Sex Slave (aka ERP slave).. Wait, what? Once you choose to RP a slave, it means that you're something like the minion of your owner. He/She can do anything on you, while you're their property. So, being a slave, means that if your master wants to have sexual contact with you -- he can have it. But to be polite, he might ask you OOCly before he moves into it ICly.

NOW, that's from me.

(Also, cool thing, that new button Check Spelling, me gusta )

[Xigo]

Just because you're being ICly dominated, does not mean you OOCly have no choice in the manner.

Discuss things with a slave OOCly beforehand. He/she might not enjoy ERP/being a sex slave (which believe it or not is something pretty damn sensitive). He/she might not enjoy having his/her character brainwashed. Seriously. Figure out what you're going to do with a slave before making the acquisition, and talk it out with slaves prior to acquiring them.

"But Xigo! The character's a slave! I get to choose everything! After all, the player wouldn't have made a slave if he/she didn't want me to control his/her actions!"

No. You will discuss things with the player. And you will be respectful OOCly to what might trouble other roleplayers.

[Grakor456]

Just because you're being ICly dominated, does not mean you OOCly have no choice in the manner.

Discuss things with a slave OOCly beforehand. He/she might not enjoy ERP/being a sex slave (which believe it or not is something pretty damn sensitive). He/she might not enjoy having his/her character brainwashed. Seriously. Figure out what you're going to do with a slave before making the acquisition, and talk it out with slaves prior to acquiring them.

"But Xigo! The character's a slave! I get to choose everything! After all, the player wouldn't have made a slave if he/she didn't want me to control his/her actions!"

No. You will discuss things with the player. And you will be respectful OOCly to what might trouble other roleplayers.

This is very correct. I would recommend establishing OOC communication before doing anything involving sensitive subjects...slavery, forced sexuality, abuse/violence to children, torture, and drug use (including how most pass off felblood as) being the biggest causes for OOC discomfort that might come up in RP. Keep in mind that different people have different limits. I myself tend to be alright with most RP, but I get extremely uncomfortable any time addictive drugs or felblood is brought up.

[Jester]

Just because you're being ICly dominated, does not mean you OOCly have no choice in the manner.

Discuss things with a slave OOCly beforehand. He/she might not enjoy ERP/being a sex slave (which believe it or not is something pretty damn sensitive). He/she might not enjoy having his/her character brainwashed. Seriously. Figure out what you're going to do with a slave before making the acquisition, and talk it out with slaves prior to acquiring them.

"But Xigo! The character's a slave! I get to choose everything! After all, the player wouldn't have made a slave if he/she didn't want me to control his/her actions!"

No. You will discuss things with the player. And you will be respectful OOCly to what might trouble other roleplayers.

Yeap. I noticed that in my post. Of course you'll discuss it with the "slave". But while you choose to be one, it means you like the "class" generally. But yeah, some people doesn't like certain things, such as ERP and cruelty (like getting their character beated)

[Piroska]

Discuss things with a slave OOCly beforehand.

I think that this is the crux of the matter. Roleplay is always better when communication occurs, usually before complications arise. Doing something that might make most people potentially feel uncomfortable? Discuss it ahead of time!

Roleplay is fun when it's dynamic and things can take unexpected paths, but that shouldn't prevent us from being able to reach out to our roleplaying partners and talk. A little communication can go a long way (and it looks like Wuvvums is awesomely doing so with this thread!).

[Wuvvums]

Thanks, guys.

I've been having a few problems with the idea that not all the slaves are for sales or the rp isn't free-for-all because of these issues. I feel like the players who are slaves are giving me a lot by being a part of the rp. I want to give back by OOCly ensuring that all parties are satisfied and they are satisfied with the roleplay they get. It is definitely worth discussing, and if content is questionable it's worth keeping private. I am pretty sure it won't change the rp if others can not see it.

[Rowgen]

I support this thread in every possible way imaginable, and I even do so ICly (my slave risked punishment to save another one from the fate we're discussing here. That included yelling at both slavers and buyers, which I found extremely entertaining and gave me a good source of future insults).

[Uguu]

Pooleh supports this thread, as Pooleh has seen how bad this stuff gets.



Pooleh will stop with the third person talkin' after this post.





Maybe. Not likely...

[solinax]

Aha... SO this matter was brought at hand. I really like the idea of this topic. Basicly because I have been in completely direct contact with what was discussed.

Now.. My personal opinion on the matter is that there are different characters, that have -nothing- to do with the person playing them. As Dave said a sex-slave has nothing to do with the actual person and the ERP. Everyone have the own choice to timeskip whatever they find abusive. Now, on the other hand. People that RP slave characters - Why do you do this when you don't want to get brought up in such RP situations? and Slavers - Why do you RP slavers when you cannot handle the pressure of knowing OOC-ly what will happen to the character and still selling it IC? Everyone has a limit. Meaning that his character will do only what the player is comfortable with. Now may be a good time for someone to say " But that means slaves are not to be forced into such RP! "... Yes.. They are not, ALTHOUGH they took the risk when creating such character ( applies only for characters that were not taken as slaves) .

Now.. Onto the matter from first hand experience. Today I was dragged into a drama witch I totally did not like. My character- Kalanis was off to buy a slave. He was rejected OOC-ly and IC-ly, and what I find hilarious the most is that I ( The RL me ) was nearly called perverted OOC-ly... But anyways. I stand behind the point that both sides should be comfortable on the RP before it happens ( Witch is in most cases ignored, but that's another story ). Now when I'm being told that the person is not comfortable with being a sex-slave or tortured, bla-bla and so on... I back off. Forcing my character to completely change his ideas and understandings, because the character is something imaginary, but is controlled by a real human being. And as large is the distance between your character's personality and your personality, the better. Some people do tend to force their own ideas into characters, that would hardly have such. ( Everyone is free to do whatever they wish with their characters and no one is to tell them "your character cannot do this and that " ) But I'm a person who does not. This matter can be discussed for eternity, especially with the uprising slave trade groups.

But my point is : Don't get your character into something that you do -not- like to see. A good idea, is for slave-handling organisations, to simply put a list of their slaves in their guild post and type in what the players of their slaves DO NOT WISH to RP. If you did that.. All the drama would have been avoided.

Peace.