Chat rule clarifications?

[Piroska]

To be fair, the topic of this thread -- like many things on Conquest of the Horde -- tends to be cyclical. I think that this becomes more prominent in the months when we gain a high number of new users, since they're not exactly familiar with the rules regarding use of all of the chat channels. The people who inform them generally try to do so in a patient, helpful manner, but it's not always interpreted that way. It's our responsibility to help others, but do so in a way that is unfailingly polite.

Especially since we want those new members to not only remain with us, but also become awesome, contributing members of the community. And maybe bring friends!

Also, keep in mind that for people who want to have a conversation but not sift through everything else in Barrens, another channel can be created. Or if only two people are involved, whispers should work fine. Or a party or a raid or whatever! I think that it's more that the many don't necessarily want to be subjected to the chatter of the few (especially since it can interrupt or provide difficulty in roleplay) and it's just polite to avoid that sort of thing.

[Harmonic]

See though, in the link it states nothing about chat being used for server info or the like, it states that it's supposed to be for, as I stated; general chatting. I can understand people asking others to nicely go to a different place, but, as I stated before, I think it's kind of forcing people that want to enjoy having a nice chat into barrenschat.

The description on the wiki even says that "Off-topic" conversation is supposed to happen in chat. I think it's a misconception that it should be in Barrens, just because it's off-topic.

Basically, it -feels- like a punishment to take a conversation to barrens. It feel this way to me, because the reason barrens was even created was to limit the amount of silly-ness that was happening in chat at the time, taking away from any constructive conversation at the time.

In other words, if I'm chatting with someone about their day, it feels wrong to be sent to talk about it as the same place people are sent to to discuss "That's what she said" jokes.


I guess. In my opinions. Heh.

Edit: I should also state that I hate going to barrenschat. I know, right? Mr. Funny guy doesn't like the derpyness. But in game, it's just.. meeeeeh. Being sent there stinks.

[Piken]

I agree with Rensin, for the most part. It's kind of like being sent to the time-out corner when someone says "Take that to barrens", because I'm asking someone about some little real life topic such as music or something. I always take it as kind of rude, too, honestly. That's just me but.. what harm is there in a little general conversing, so when people interrupt a perfectly mature and calm(not 'spammy', only a couple messages in exchange back and forth) to move it to barrens(you know, that place for LOLOLOLOLOL), it's.. rude as hell, IMO.

I'm probably overly sensitive. But hey. Just my thoughts.

[Piroska]

But in the interests of being polite to a larger group of people, wouldn't it be a good idea to take a chat not directly related to something going on to another channel? It may not have to be Barrens, but having two or three people hold a discussion in General while others listen in may not be exactly the nicest thing to do. It can become difficult to track roleplay when a conversation is going on, especially since General is often (not always!) used to discuss things directly related to the roleplay in a zone.

The problem with a couple of messages in an exchange is that, when you have multiple people in an area, you a couple of messages per person can easily become numerous messages back and forth. In an area, say, like Hearthglen, where over a dozen people can gather, this can result in a lot of comments. I have no particular stake in this matter, but I can see how it can deter people who want to roleplay to have to combat through General chattiness.

I just feel that it's potentially more polite to take the conversation somewhere else rather than General because General (a channel in which people automatically begin) chatter subjects people to discussions in which they are not interested or involved. Going elsewhere -- not necessarily Barrens -- means that the people who join that channel/group/raid have made a conscious decision to become a part of the conversation.

There's two sides and two basic solutions. General can be turned off by those who don't want to listen to discussions not related to the roleplay, but those who want to have a discussion can just as easily form another channel/group/raid.

[Harmonic]

The boon of that though, and usually my intent with chat, is to spark others in joining the conversation. I've always felt chat to be that way. If people feels it's too spammy, or that it's something that they don't wish to see, it's fairly easy to leave, and not mandatory to roleplay like LFG is, or any other global communication channel. I believe it's intended purpose is to be used for global communication for things that don't pertain to RP, or if it comes up as part of the chat... then sure!

I'm trying hard to not say that "This is how it's been", as I think that's a weak argument that noone likes to hear, but, it's hard to not say it as well, being that I remember the purposes of the chats that were created.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that, well, I think that we should stick to what it says, heh. When people say "Could you move the conversation", it honestly, honestly feels like someone saying "Shutup" more or less, and more often than not it's when I'm trying to strike friendly conversation with people.

If I'm not making sense, please tell me. I am fairly tired and wouldn't be surprised in the least.

[Grakor456]

In other words, if I'm chatting with someone about their day, it feels wrong to be sent to talk about it as the same place people are sent to to discuss "That's what she said" jokes.

To be fair, if you're talking to someone about their day, it's probably best done in whispers. A conversation between two people on Chat is just sparking needless spam for everyone else. Generally, Chat should be used for conversations (on or off topic) that all members of the server are supposed to contribute to, whereas other channels (General, whispers, party, Adult, Barrens) have more specialized functions or a more limited audience. Similarly, if you're talking about something that only concerns the people in a specific zone, it's probably best to have the conversation in the zone General chat.

I know that might not be what you meant, exactly, but if everyone is concerned about chat spam and being sent to Barrens, it's a good idea to make sure you're keeping spam down as much as possible. Usually people only ask others to move to Barrens if the chat is crossing the border into lolcats territory, or the conversation is so pointless/fast scrolling that it's disrupting RP.

[Harmonic]

I see what you mean, completely, and I do understand it. I honestly have a hard time swallowing it though, because it almost feels anti-social in a way.

I'm having a super-difficult time explaining this the way I intend to. I guess, that the only way I can state it is the way I have, it feels like the best solutions don't really help the people who want to use chat to chat, as the rules open up for anyone to say "Move it", and when that happens the chat usually is dropped completely because half the people that were engaged in the conversation don't normally speak to each other.

It feels like we need yet -another- channel to define this further, one that's just for any, every day chat where people can't get in trouble for having lengthy non-important conversations other than "Hey, x happened blah blah blah".

I thought that's how chat was meant to be used. I kind of wish it was that "If you feel it's too spammy, might be best to leave the channel" was used instead of anyone saying "Move chat" on a whim.


But, I digress. I don't think a lot of people feel the same way, so I'm just going to leave it, and not talk in chat as often as I try to. Honestly, I think nobody uses chat because of this exact same reason.




Bleh! I wish I could come up with something that conveyed my feelings better on the issue!

[Piken]

The boon of that though, and usually my intent with chat, is to spark others in joining the conversation. I've always felt chat to be that way. If people feels it's too spammy, or that it's something that they don't wish to see, it's fairly easy to leave, and not mandatory to roleplay like LFG is, or any other global communication channel. I believe it's intended purpose is to be used for global communication for things that don't pertain to RP, or if it comes up as part of the chat... then sure!

I'm trying hard to not say that "This is how it's been", as I think that's a weak argument that noone likes to hear, but, it's hard to not say it as well, being that I remember the purposes of the chats that were created.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that, well, I think that we should stick to what it says, heh. When people say "Could you move the conversation", it honestly, honestly feels like someone saying "Shutup" more or less, and more often than not it's when I'm trying to strike friendly conversation with people.

If I'm not making sense, please tell me. I am fairly tired and wouldn't be surprised in the least.

Every single word. It's all my thoughts. Yes, this is a RP server. But we're also here to chat with people, get to know others, become friends, are we not? I love RPing, but I also love just having conversations with people and I think it helps others that are new as it shows that we are a close community, since we're just chattin' it up. Like Rensin said, it's not a RP-mandatory thing. I even have a separate tab for event/RP-heavy situations, with no other channels. Works out -really- well for me, personally. <Shrug>

lol i no uze paragiraffz

[Kirabo]

To be fair, if you're talking to someone about their day, it's probably best done in whispers. A conversation between two people on Chat is just sparking needless spam for everyone else.

This. Generally, when I need aid with a lore-related enigma, or am just wondering about something that's easily debatable, I turn to the [chat] channel. I try my best to avoid [barrenschat] because I've grown to dislike the negative energy it produces, with the trolls and whatnot.

I've never yet visited the [adult] chat channel, because I'm not old enough to do so, so I can not grant opinion on it.

Other than that, I think people feel offended too easily. Or even - They find their current state of mind boring, and try to compensate for it by randomly sparking a conflict about the chat channel choice of their 'victim'. Eh.

And to be blunt, direct, and maybe a bit edgy - It was not always like that. There used to be a time when you could say 'Hello, world' in [chat] and would get very friendly responses. Responses that made you feel like you belong. CotH used to be a place of warmth an-... Well, I'm drifting too far of topic now.

[Xigo]

I'm generally fine with people just chatting in chat. But once it gets spammy or flooded with people posting replies, I'll ask for a move to another channel.

Not that I'm not interested in your conversation. But you just gotta be considerate for the guys RPing who don't want this wall of text.

Granted, this could be solved by leaving chat or putting it in a separate window. But eh.

[Piroska]

There used to be a time when you could say 'Hello, world' in [chat] and would get very friendly responses.

Since coming back to Conquest of the Horde and doing so as a common roleplayer, I've avoided both Chat and Barrens. I often found the chatter in both channels fairly inane (though I loved the lore discussions!) and remained in them in the past because, as a staff member, I felt that it was both appropriate and helped me keep a finger on the pulse of the server. I'm not very intuitive when it comes to people, but you can occasionally pick up tidbits by watching how they interact with one another.

I kind of wish it was that "If you feel it's too spammy, might be best to leave the channel" was used instead of anyone saying "Move chat" on a whim.

I have the feeling that's it's rarely whim. Saying so may trivialize the concerns of the people who feel that a discussion being held in General is disruptive to roleplay. Or is the concern how you perceive their request and not that it was made?

I am unfortunately unable to see how limiting discussion from General prohibits communication within the community as a whole. We have, currently:

• The forums
  
• A shoutbox
  
• A Skype open conversation
  
• TeamSpeak server
  
• A global channel intended for chatter (Chat)
  
• A global channel intended for silliness (Barrens)
  
• A global channel intended for topics intended for a more mature audience (Adult)
  
• Friendslists and the ability to whisper people
  
• An almost unlimited number of other channels with which communication can occur.

It just feels like there are so many forms of communication that being asked not to take a conversation between a handful of people out of General shouldn't detract from any need to interact with the community. As I noted, and Grakor appeared to reinforce (apologies if I misinterpreted!), it becomes more a matter of politeness towards the other people in a zone.

I don't know. Perhaps it could be best likened to having two people talk during a movie. You're chillaxing, in the groove of the movie, having fun, and then two knuckleheads behind you start talking about how their day has gone, how their kids are, and the music to which they've been listening. Sure, you could somehow block out their ever-present drone, but it's still a bit tedious to do so.

If you want to interact with a specific person -- or a specific group of people -- on a regular basis, there's always the creation of an awesome channel of your own. Don't like Barrens or being sent there like a recalcitrant child? Feel that Chat is too global? Create Rensin's Room of Awesome and start inviting people to the channel. Add it for all of your characters. Invite others to do the same. Communicate with them on a regular basis and avoid the potential of upsetting others by having your daily dose of conversation interfere with others' roleplay.

LookingForGroup appears to have special rules because it's a channel which every character joins. General should also probably follow similar guidelines because it's another channel which every character automatically joins, though it serves a smaller scope that changes depending on zone.


I'm sorry, Rensin. I tend to play Devil's advocate a lot, mostly because I have difficulties relating to others and it's an exercise that helps me do so.


Also, random aside. I love the custom channels and their use. Jonoth in particular has been savvy and has encouraged used of a channel associated with his guild, The Bloodpaw. It's awesome when I see people log into that channel -- even on other toons -- and then be able to ask if they're interested in maritime roleplay. That's just so smart and simple! I join the channel on every character.

[Krent]

In my younger and more vulnerable years, my senior peer gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.

"Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone for chat-spamming" she told me, "just remember that all the people in the server haven't had the advantages that you've had.".

Within the first couple months of my time on COTH, I did notice that Chat-chat had a tendency to 'wash out' the RP going on. So, I understand the annoyance people have with the so-called 'conversation spam' that goes on within it. That being said, such annoyance has led to this cyclical issue, which seems to be part of the Endless Waltz of COTH.

Rather than join it, I learned from a good 'ol friend of mine, how to create separate windows for separate channels. One for chat, one for LFG, one for party, one for raid. By right-clicking on the chatterbox window tabs, you can set forth a list of filters and "divvy up" the channels into separate windows. This ensures that, no matter what sort of shenanigans or debate goes on in chat, your RP will not be effected in the slightest.

...of course, whenever I make this point, people tell me the same thing. "But I don't want to do that, because I might miss something important!" or "I have to keep a constant eye on the chat-channel because I have to be able to police it"(applies to GM's only) or "I like chat too much to ignore it!". So, very few people end up doing this.

And thus, the debate continues. Like the coming of the seasons.

[Harmonic]

If it's how people want to handle it, then I can't really say much about it, however it's kind of sad to me to see it turn out that way.

And to me, it's actually like this. Said person goes into a movie, they sit down, and right in the middle they get a call. They get annoyed at the caller, when they should have had the phone off.

Leaving chat is like turning off your phone to me. If you want the calls, the option is there, and if it ticks you off or other people, the option to turn it off is there too.

It's a poor example, I know, but. Really, I kind of give up my standpoint, as I'm just not well-equiped enough to support my side, as well as the fact that I'm seemingly one of probably two people that want it to go back to how it was. I still refuse to enter barrens, because that has the label, to me, of being the place where you want to be stupid.

Edit: And what Krent said. It's probably why I wanted a bit more clarification, because it always comes back to this. It's still vague in areas, and the wording in the wiki makes it sound like you could be banned for "Spam", which comes off as...

Well, very very odd.

[Piroska]

One for chat, one for LFG, one for party, one for raid. By right-clicking on the chatterbox window tabs, you can set forth a list of filters and "divvy up" the channels into separate windows. This ensures that, no matter what sort of shenanigans or debate goes on in chat, your RP will not be effected in the slightest.

I simplify it a little more. I have an ARPEE chat window which has /s, /y, emotes, /p, /ra, and usually General (since that appears where people place corrections or discussions regarding roleplay). Whenever I want to avoid other channels, I just pop that sucker on. It's the same set up that I've used in retail since joining my first roleplay server and I've liked it!


Edit: What about Chat, Rensin? That seems to be a global chat-centric chat channel for people who just want to do exactly what you have in mind. Plus it lacks the silliness that is generally associated with Barrens.

[Harmonic]

C--huh? Chat's what I'm talking about. People keep asking others to move from chat when they consider it too spammy, which could be almost any conversation.

Edit: Oh boy, did I like, totally forget to mention this was -about- chat the entire time? I was way too tired last night, haha.