Rigley Ramble (Sorta): On Stagnation

[Kage]

My Deadeye Watchers are kinda working on that Ashenvale/Felwood thing. :P

I think your Deadeye RP and stuff needs more, let's say death. NPC or not, just usually when I pop into an RP that involves conflict it ends up letting the Alliance retreat or something :/. I think you should organize RP that involves CW for both sides, just to spice things up a bit!

*Cough* That wasn't Deadeye events, that was my put together for the fun of it events. Deadeye events involve demon slaying. Lots and lots of demon slaying.

But, Imma post something up here anyway. THe issue with most events people make is they want to make it, but either one, they don't know how to go about it, or two, they don't think it will be accepted, whether by the people of the forums or the GMs. To put a lot of effort into something your not sure will be accepted and approved puts a major put off on the idea of making events as a player. GM events can be accepted to work because, well their the GMs, they made this and we all know it's accepted because it's a GM event. If we could have a way for people to be able to make events without having to change large parts of it drastically, more people would be willing to make them. But, the other side to it is people will start to go crazy with them. I'm talking from experience, I've made some crazy stuff, and with that, when an event idea is shut out and you've spent a large amount of time on it, you get really sad, and possibly angry. It's a lot of work to try and figure out an event.

Hopefully that made sense, I've been getting very little sleep in the last couple of weeks so I tend not to make sense.

[Aphetoros]

My Deadeye Watchers are kinda working on that Ashenvale/Felwood thing. :P

I think your Deadeye RP and stuff needs more, let's say death. NPC or not, just usually when I pop into an RP that involves conflict it ends up letting the Alliance retreat or something :/. I think you should organize RP that involves CW for both sides, just to spice things up a bit!

*Cough* That wasn't Deadeye events, that was my put together for the fun of it events. Deadeye events involve demon slaying. Lots and lots of demon slaying.

But, Imma post something up here anyway. THe issue with most events people make is they want to make it, but either one, they don't know how to go about it, or two, they don't think it will be accepted, whether by the people of the forums or the GMs. To put a lot of effort into something your not sure will be accepted and approved puts a major put off on the idea of making events as a player. GM events can be accepted to work because, well their the GMs, they made this and we all know it's accepted because it's a GM event. If we could have a way for people to be able to make events without having to change large parts of it drastically, more people would be willing to make them. But, the other side to it is people will start to go crazy with them. I'm talking from experience, I've made some crazy stuff, and with that, when an event idea is shut out and you've spent a large amount of time on it, you get really sad, and possibly angry. It's a lot of work to try and figure out an event.

Hopefully that made sense, I've been getting very little sleep in the last couple of weeks so I tend not to make sense.

Like when I made an event, had a lot of sign-ups, and not one person showed up.

[Kage]

Very much of the same. Or a GM comes in and says no. Which is their place and job to, but it still hurts right? Takes the fun out of making stuff up.

[Caravan]

GM events can be accepted to work because, well they're the GMs, they made this and we all know it's accepted because it's a GM event.

Most of the GM events are run by the other GMs, by the way, for approval -- especially those that would have any wide impact. The fear of failure (that the community won't warm up to or accept the proposed event) is still something we have to face.

Yes, it gets discouraging to spend a lot of time on something only to have it shot down but at least you tried something. You find what didn't work, or what wasn't accepted, and you work with what you have left.

[Rowgen]

... While I'm not intending to point fingers and call people out, I think Apotheros's example there is just a display of lacking manners. Being in an internet community is a bit like having strangers and friends for dinner; You need to act in a certain way to make sure everyone's alright. That has happened to me before, though. It really isn't much fun.

[Rigley]

Words

Not true, actually; I personally have ideas shot down before for events. You guys just don't see them, since we tend to discuss amongst the admins and other GMs before making something a public plan. While it doesn't happen often I have had times where I've been told, essentially, 'Yeeeeah, you probably -shouldn't- do that.'.

So we're no strangers to denial, just the same. I don't believe that the fear of denial should be the thing driving people away, because if that's the case I never would have gotten Solidarity through, or many of my character concepts. You have to take risks, and as far as risks go being told 'no' is something of a small one to invest in.

I don't think anyone here has always got their way, GM or not; we know how denial feels like, and believe me when I say it's not typically something given lightly. GMs discuss amongst themselves for quite a while before we say 'denied', be it for an event of a character.

-------

In response to Aph and Rowgen, I've had that happen to me too, and I've vented about it in the past. It's really disenfranchising, but oddly enough it seems to be persistence that wins out most of the time. And with events like Northwind I've found that it really doesn't matter how many people you attract, so long as you can please those people. Modify events if you need to; I've culled swathes of enemies in my own events to soften the blow and let smaller groups take them. It may not be ideal, but at least the people who do care aren't sent away from a cancellation-- something I've also done, and looking back on after Northwind sorta wish I had reconsidered more than I did.

-------

In response to Nikodemos; I absolutely have to agree that there seems to be less and less player-ran events and intrigues, and I can't really believe that it's entirely due to fear of denial as stated above. Or at least, it would be somewhat disheartening if that were the case. I want to say that if anything the staff has become more and more accessible and willing to work out these sorts of things. I would love to see more player-ran events, even if they're just simple ones.

[Kage]

GM events can be accepted to work because, well they're the GMs, they made this and we all know it's accepted because it's a GM event.

Most of the GM events are run by the other GMs, by the way, for approval -- especially those that would have any wide impact. The fear of failure (that the community won't warm up to or accept the proposed event) is still something we have to face.

Perhaps I said that wrong, or at least in the wrong context. When a new player joins the server and they see two events made, one by lets say me, and another by a GM, they'll lean towards the GM event. And it's nothing about someone being better then the other, it's jus the title GM means the person knows what their doing. I know what I'm doing, and many others do, but if you don't know the person, it's hard to figure out. But if you don't know a GM, many would think that because they have the fancy green color they do know what they're doing. (To be honest, all the GMs do )

The quick and easy thing I'm saying in case I made no sense?

People are more willing to trust a GM they don't know with their characters in an event then a grunt or peon they don't know.

[CappnRob]

I wouldn't go as far as to say we are a stone's throw away.

Indeed, it's rather up to kret's discretion as to when he is satisfied with a core.

Rather pleased with the comments thus far. I'll post in-depth once I am home.

I meant from a lore perspective, not so much a practical one.

[Nikodemos]

Rerailing this train. How? That's an important question. Followed then by Who?

[Reigen]

And it's nothing about someone being better then the other, it's jus the title GM means the person knows what their doing.

But if you don't know a GM, many would think that because they have the fancy green color they do know what they're doing. (To be honest, all the GMs do )

....


I'm still very new at running events. I'm sure I'll get into the swing of things soon enough...but for now I just go and hope I don't mess up too bad.

[Harmonic]

Reigan. That's absurd.














We all know you're a cat.

[Aphetoros]

Apotheros's

Spoiler:

This post is irrelevant, ignore it in terms of the discussion.

[Micheru]

I'm a little late to the party, so forgive this if it's considered post necromancy, but I think a huge part of the stagnation could be partly due the closed nature of the community here.
Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of fun here with random roleplay and even a few events, but I've noticed that the community just isn't always welcoming.

Yesterday I returned to the server after being away for a few months due to trying to balance my medical issues with my ever-increasing case load at work - it's not easy. I hopped on and saw that all of the players were in one of three places:
Three in westfall, an Alliance territory.
Two in the OOC zone.
And like seven people in Northrend.

Since I was playing a Horde character, and wanted to join in any possible RP, I headed to Northrend to see if I could join them. I approached the group and before I could ask to join, I get asked if I'm a part of the ongoing Kidnapped event, I said no, and was told the event was closed to new arrivals. I was okay with that, and asked if I could watch OOCly. I got told no outright so I logged out.

Now, I've got no problem with not being able to join an ongoing event, especially one that I have no knowledge of, but why couldn't I have watched and at least enjoyed it from the bleachers? If I was a new player who had just joined the server, I would have felt off-put and likely left for good, hell, I still even felt off-put.

The closed atmosphere does more harm than good. It's not like I would have metagamed knowing what I oocly saw, this server is full of good rpers and I think a benefit of a doubt would be fitting.

[Rigley]

Actually, I was there for that; I don't believe it was said that newcomers were not allowed, only that you could not (as you put it) wander into the event. It was in a bit of a closed off area, so participation would have only worked if you were led in and given something of a rundown; not just appeared on the isle, heh.

So that's more of a misunderstanding than anything. We're still welcoming people in, they just need to be introduced in a way that makes sense for the area.


And as an addendum, I think we prefer for an event like this if people were to join instead of watch. I think there was just a miscommunication.

[Harmonic]

In regards to this, I want to elaborate a little further. My own personal reason for never logging on CoTH is very, very simple. I can not find the people I want to RP with, and when I do find a group to stumble upon, it's very hard to integrate myself into the RP without it feeling like I'm forcing every single aspect of myself onto someone. I agree with Micheru, I feel like the server kind of closes itself off when people are not familiar with an individual. Case in point, I seldom let people know "I'm Rensin", but as soon as I do I get at least five people going "OH, HEY RENSIN!". Sadly, this doesn't help my RP any more than you'd think it would, either. Not knowing where people are is a very hard thing, considering you have to basically stumble on RP.

At that point, I'm too overwhelmed and give up. I suppose that's more of a personal issue.