Reinforced Cloth Armor Petition

[Harmonic]

Everyone skips to the end of posts now it seems, or reads the first post and then immediately posts without looking to see if there's been any input.


My fancy pajamas have a buttflap.

[Scow2]

I'd like to throw my hat into this argument!

First off - Cloth armor in WoW is badass - This stuff's not floofy cotton or polyester junk. Some of the higher-end cloth types are closer to Dwarf Fortress' adamantine. Why settle for a chunk of metal or leather when you can get a lighter, more flexible piece of Mageweave or better cloth?

Also: Leather and heavier types of armor are uncomfortable and distracting to wear for extended periods of time, unless you've been conditioned for years to wearing them. Even a simple breastplate can be distracting. A mage could spend the time that would be lost to the conditioning process learning more powerful defensive spells, or even offensive spells, both increasing their survivability far more than a chunk of metal.

[PiesOfNub]

Perhaps we ought to consider a Skyrim approach to robes. Each robe in that game gives light enhancements to the caster's Magica regen pool and spell costs. Not saying it's the absolute best idea (maybe second of third best), but what if Mageweave, and a few of the mid-high tier cloths had innate mana regen boosting properties? It's already canon that it's weaved with magic, so it'd make sense for a mage to surround most of his body in such a material, thereby absorbing some of the lingering magic.

I have no issues with mages in heavier armor, but if we give them a REASON to wear cloth instead or the heavy stuff, perhaps that could solve some issues. And as Scow2 said, the cloth armor in WoW IS badass. It's more often than not designed to look as if it has metallic parts, so combined with some decent spaulders, it could give the visage of a heavy chest-piece.

Perhaps casters may get heavier armor one day, but for now, I think that trying to introduce such a thing would be far too hard.

[Caravan]

...Hasn't the answer to the original question been answered? Reinforcement within reason.

Yay.

Everyone skips to the end of posts now it seems, or reads the first post and then immediately posts without looking to see if there's been any input.

(To echo Cressy and Rensin)

Sorry, not quite sure why this is still goin'! :3 Within reason was the conclusion. There's enchants, small bits of other fabrics, etc. Also!

Also, just in case no one looked at it because it's on the first page, Sol's post is enlightening. I'm seeing the trend of "fancy pajamas" in the arguments on the later pages.

Some fascinating stuff - cloth as armour was nowhere near as useless as it is often portrayed, and nor was proper leather armour light or particularly flexible.

[Dae]

Also, just in case no one looked at it because it's on the first page, Sol's post is enlightening. I'm seeing the trend of "fancy pajamas" in the arguments on the later pages.

Man, I knew the use of that phrase would come back and bite me in the butt, but I think the whole point of this thread isn't so much "can we use reinforced armor," but asking for some consistency here. I mean, the only way you can, with 100% certainty, not get called out for reinforcements to your outfit is with the "fancy pajamas" look.

And really, the link posted by Sol doesn't really help all that much, simply because it completely contradicts WoW logic. If Quilted armor has qualities so useful that Warriors and paladins might use it, then what does that mean for a priest in combat? The only reason cloth wearers wear cloth is to act as a balancing tradeoff for casters having a magical arsenal and magic bubbles. If we're being entirely "realistic," a mage with a sword and great cloth-level armor should be able to be just as competent a warrior as, well, a Warrior. They could probably even conjure up for themselves a magic buckler and be all set.

CotH users seem to me to be quite timid at times, and many would probably rather stick with pajamas than risk being called out for certain aspects of their character. And while I'm all for the "using your resources to get over your own problems" thing, giving people something concrete to think about (possibly my previous suggestion or whatever else you green guys might come up with) could help make this a non-issue.
I mean, people probably wouldn't still be posting in here if everyone were clear on the concept.

[SachikoMaeda]

There still is no solid "yes" or "no" to any form of other armor allowed for battle casters. NPC battle mages are seen in plate if I chose to pull that card. (But we still don't want full plate)

[Rigley]

Er.

Thing is I'm a bit confused as to what people are -not- clear about concerning this concept, then.

Right, so just because quilted armor could have been used alongside a warrior's chain or plate doesn't mean that it is the same as chain or plate. Personally it's more of a gap filler-- the best thing you can have to protect your weak points.

It's going to be weaker in respects to actual leather and metal armor though when we're talking about someone swinging a sword at it, and I think that's just it in general is that even if we do say you can have reinforcements, in the end... the turnout is really the same as far as durability goes. Which I don't think is being argued, but I'm growing more and more perplexed as to why this is a matter for debate when we've said already that it's allowed.

I don't really know what to tell you, since 'you can use reinforcements' is about as concrete as I think can be done without trying to list ways to reinforce (and inevitably missing some that someone will want to attempt later down the line). I'm also somewhat confused since, though that link does point towards more efficient cloth armor, that armor is too good to be used in WoW (if that's what I understand from the previous post)? It doesn't contradict WoW logic really, not when we have completely made up metals that are forged into weapons and armor.


...That being said, I personally have a bit of a hang-up in some of the previous arguments in this thread, mostly this:

Not all casters know defensive spells.

I would actually argue then that this is comparable to a warrior not being strong enough to use his plate armor, because this is actually a fairly important facet of the class. If you're a person who expects to be in close range and able to be swung at you -should- know a shielding spell, because (basically) you'd be a fool not to. In my mind that would come down to lacking preparation and foresight, not a matter of imbalance that should be rectified in another manner.


EDIT:

There still is no solid "yes" or "no" to any form of other armor allowed for battle casters. NPC battle mages are seen in plate if I chose to pull that card. (But we still don't want full plate)

I didn't think this topic was concerning 'battle casters' at all, but at current we don't have any plans to do anything more than allowing reinforcements. Personally I think battlecasters should run with more magical components for defense, such as enchantments or magical shields. See my gabber above, I guess.

[Xigo]

Does this really matter so much when everyone has 5 health in a fight and doesn't do any more damage than anyone else?

I don't mind characters reinforcing themselves with some stronger materials. However, it should be mostly cloth, and nothing that can interfere with the gestures required for spellcasting.

[Lendri]

My only question now to effectively answer my original post is this;
How much.. is too much?

Lendri is.. kind of a unique case, being a forsaken who uses the light. So she can't use it all the time constantly, which is why she goes into close combat. There are also other cases such as mages and warlocks being battle suited and do less casting and more fighting. So what would be an acceptable amount of reinforced protection?

[Xigo]

Like the difference between art and porn, I can't really tell the difference until I get to see it. So if you do it, I'll tell you if you're going too far. There really aren't guidelines to go by that I can write, as it varies between individual cases.

That being said, just try to keep it within taste. Cloth should be your main form of protection. A little bit of other stuff isn't too much.

[Lendri]

Alright thanks. My questions have been answered.
Reinforced protection? Yes. Check!
How much? .. to be confirmed!

[Caravan]

How much? .. to be confirmed!

Yep! As we said, within reason, so if you have any questions feel free to shoot us a PM, throw down a PD, or nab us in-game with a run-down of her gear. Thanks, Lendri.

[Scow2]

Also, just in case no one looked at it because it's on the first page, Sol's post is enlightening. I'm seeing the trend of "fancy pajamas" in the arguments on the later pages.

Man, I knew the use of that phrase would come back and bite me in the butt, but I think the whole point of this thread isn't so much "can we use reinforced armor," but asking for some consistency here. I mean, the only way you can, with 100% certainty, not get called out for reinforcements to your outfit is with the "fancy pajamas" look.

And really, the link posted by Sol doesn't really help all that much, simply because it completely contradicts WoW logic. If Quilted armor has qualities so useful that Warriors and paladins might use it, then what does that mean for a priest in combat? The only reason cloth wearers wear cloth is to act as a balancing tradeoff for casters having a magical arsenal and magic bubbles. If we're being entirely "realistic," a mage with a sword and great cloth-level armor should be able to be just as competent a warrior as, well, a Warrior. They could probably even conjure up for themselves a magic buckler and be all set.

CotH users seem to me to be quite timid at times, and many would probably rather stick with pajamas than risk being called out for certain aspects of their character. And while I'm all for the "using your resources to get over your own problems" thing, giving people something concrete to think about (possibly my previous suggestion or whatever else you green guys might come up with) could help make this a non-issue.
I mean, people probably wouldn't still be posting in here if everyone were clear on the concept.

While Runecloth and other high-quality materials can offer the same protection as iron or steel, they don't offer the same protection as Mithril, Thorium, Adamantine, or Titanium.

Also, a wizard armed with a sword, magic buckler, and strong cloth armor not the same as a Warrior - The thing that prevents a Mage from being the same as a warrior is training, which takes TIME. And trying to pursue both instead leaves you with neither.

Also, if cloth robes were good enough for the Clerics of Northshire(Bad example - it wasn't, and that's why we have Paladins) Conjurors of Azeroth, the Mages of the Alliance of Lordaeron, and the Priests and Sorceresses of the Third War, they should be good enough for your mage too. Neither Khadgar nor Gul'dan needed shiny armor or metal/leather reinforcements, so neither should you.

[Ormica]

Um...I have a question that may or may not suit this thread, but...could we have battle casters within CotH? For example a warlock/mage wearing plate and casting spells threw sword maybe? I'll take a D&D example, the paladin, well he/she can wear heavy armor but doesn't have very strong spells...

[Caravan]

could we have battle casters within CotH? For example a warlock/mage wearing plate and casting spells threw sword maybe? I'll take a D&D example, the paladin, well he/she can wear heavy armor but doesn't have very strong spells...

Nope! There are battle mages/warlocks/priests, but they are not the same as, say, War Mages. As has been evident in this thread, you can't wear armor outside of your class.