Race/Class Expansion 2, The Ramble Begins

[Mathias]

Absolutely nothing because I would not want every Horde paladin to just be a Sun Druid.

[Kaghuros]

Absolutely nothing because I would not want every Horde paladin to just be a Sun Druid.

It's the easiest explanation for all Shaman races who are Tauren-friendly. Be careful what you wish for :P

[Mathias]

We are in custom lore now, we do have a bit more freedom with giving people these new classes. Thus...

Spoiler:

Human: Druid (Give uninfected harvest witches the human model instead of making them use the worgen model, and allow normal humans to learn from other harvest witches)

Dwarf: Nada (Wildhammers are shamanistic, but druid? Naaaaah.)

Night Elf: Warlock. Highborne. Why not. Because no paladins.

Gnome: Hunter. Because that should already be in.

Draenei: Warlock. If there is that whole faction in WoD that go Warlock without going Eredar, why not? Not every draenei has to follow what Velen says, and some might start thinking "fight fire with fire".

Worgen: None. Go away, mutts.

Orc: Druid. They got their connections with the tauren and the trolls, and they got their own animal-like spirits like Lo'gosh. Maybe it works.

Undead: Nada.

Tauren: Ehhh. Don't got a clue. Rogue? Ley-Walker Mage?

Troll: Paladin. Loa. There are plenty of in-game instances of troll temple guardians using paladin abilities.

Blood Elves: Do they need anything else?

Goblin: Paladin, of course. What else? Obviously Gol, Ver, and Ron are real.

[Scout]

For what it's worth, I would say that whatever you choose, it should be something that you should play by ear. If it doesn't end up working well, there's no harm in changing it.

[Grakor456]

There is that. For the moment I'm thinking of erring on the side of caution and allowing a few hand-chosen combinations at first, and then expanding things slowly and seeing how they work out.

[Sorum]

No stupid combinations and I will be fine with it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Except that is not true. Honestly, if we're going by "this is barred completely by lore" then the only thing we'd be crossing out is undead druid. Which doesn't seem good enough to me.

Honestly, I thought we were going into custom lore in the first place to get away from the bad writing that's so commonplace in WoD and MoP. Sargerai aside, lemme try to explain why I said that.

Broken draenei are unable to draw upon the Light's powers, being infused with fel energies.

Its (Fel's) use frequently results in corruption that manifests in a physical transformation (such as a change to an individual's eyes or skin color)

The man'ari are the demon-corrupted eredar who now lead the Burning Legion.

If you use fel, then you're corrupted. I'm not saying this is immediate, but we know, at least from Nobundo's story, that fel corruptions works rapidly. He falls asleep a Draenei and wakes a Broken. And if they use this magic, then they're corrupted, lose their connection to the Light and promptly are more Eredar than Draenei.

We know that Levixus was born a Draenei, and in the quest here, it's stated that

They offered him power and then gave him a taste of that power. That was all that it took...

Now, it's rather ambiguous as to what 'that was all it took' means, but I'm choosing to believe that the taste of fel was all it took for him to betray the Draenei and Eredar. And then he starts calling the dead in Auchindoun and gathering them to him.

Bar the Sargerai in WoD, I believe it's pretty laid out that Draenei who use Fel are not supposed to stay Draenei. Maybe for a bit, but not long-term enough for it to really be all too playable. I know that the server doesn't allow corruption to take a physical hold with horns 'n' such unless you CMC it, but the lore is there, and for all accounts with the Draenei, it happens damn fast.

EDIT; I really shouldn't write things after just waking up! Anyways, the basic point I was trying to get to is that, if a Draenei were to start to use fel, they would both start being corrupted and lose their connection to the Light, which in turn would combine and make them more an Eredar. This transformation, or at least the latter part of it, would happen rather rapidly and not allow much time for them actually playing as a Draenei Warlock. Instead, they'd be an Eredar Warlock.

[Jonoth]

In the end, it's damn near impossible to make everyone happy. I do think that the combo of "initial list of classes that are obviously okay" and "all else are tentatively special profile" might be the best bet.

Combos like Gnome Hunter (or any other combo where there has been pretty much no debate) could fall in the former, while the more debated classes could start in special profile. Once the staff actually faces down a few of the more difficult combos, you can make a post in the decisions archive with an official ruling on what is acceptable for that class/race combo.

After the official ruling, those classes could be generally opened up to being profiled normally (since the forum helpers would then have solid boundaries to go by), unless the staff decides that the combo falls under the same guidelines as other current specials (societal ranking, CMC, etc).

[Krilari]

Well remember, Jonoth, that there are going to be more than just a special profile. we intend for those who take up a special race/class combo to pave the way for their race, so to speak. They would go through a training storyline, become in/famous amongst their race for choosing such an odd path, and eventually take up students (i.e. other players). So it's a tad more complicated than leaving one to a normal profile and another to a special.

[Loxmardin]

(Well, technically, Eredar and Draenei are the same race. "Draenei" is just a name they took kind of like how Blood Elves renamed themselves to separate themselves from their kin. And fel corruption does indeed happen, but nowhere near as quickly as implied by the very selective quotes. The fel "radiation" on Draenor at the time that transformation happened was VERY, VERY, VERY dramatic. I know that the Eredar of today and Draenei are pretty different, but they don't just become an Eredar overnight.)

[Grakor456]

If you use fel, then you're corrupted. I'm not saying this is immediate, but we know, at least from Nobundo's story, that fel corruptions works rapidly. He falls asleep a Draenei and wakes a Broken. And if they use this magic, then they're corrupted, lose their connection to the Light and promptly are more Eredar than Draenei.

You're cherry-picking quotes. I'm going to respond to this part first, then explain to you why your conclusion is incorrect.

If you read Unbroken, we know that the fel corruption worked quickly because he got hit with a fel nuke's fallout. The "red mist" through-out the story is the culprit of the transformation of the draenei and their being cut off from the Light. This is made evident by the fact that, in the story, Nobundo is fine until the mist reaches him. Even then, he doesn't become a broken instantly.

The point is, the red mist is -very- different from simply using warlockry. To say that a draenei should just immediately turn into a demon from using a warlock spell is like saying an orc should immediately turn to a fel orc at the use of warlockry, which obviously doesn't happen. It takes something a lot more dramatic than the use of warlock magic to transform someone to that level. (Something like directly injecting them with tons of demon blood, like in the Blood Furnace.)

There's no reason to believe your personal interpretation of Levixus is correct. By the sound of the quest text, to me it implies far more heavily that Levixus was just power-hungry on an individual level, not that Draenei are biologically flawed and just instantly turn into demons at the slightest touch of fel.

Beware of confirmation bias. Unless it's directly stated, you shouldn't take it as irrefutable fact.

[Wuvvums]

I was just curious by the way if it's been figured out yet if these race/class combinations are going to happen inside the client(like custom spell set) or just on paper (profile)?

I was curious what a "special race/class" combination is defined as by the way? Like ones that are pretty specific like paladin or warlock? Since some classes don't even seem to touch into magic that much (like hunter and rogue) that your character would be going through the exact same training montage any other race would.

[Loxmardin]

For the first question, it's possible for Kretol to change your "class" entry in the database manually, so you'd be that class in-game both IC and OOC.

The second question... I'm not sure what you mean. o_o

[Wuvvums]

Kril was hinting you would have to write a story line sort of like what we did for prestige classes. But for rogues and hunters that seems like it would be the exact same training regimen that other characters would get for their race. I didn't know if it was going to be necessary for all classes.

[Mathias]

Well, there's more to hunter and rogue than "shoot things" and "stab things". A hunter storyline would have to deal with the character making a connection with nature and learning to survive the wilds (beast mastery and survival) in some way, naturally or with the aid of magic or technology. As far as I know, the only races without rogue are Draenei and Tauren, and that would be a storyline of besting their large, loud body to be a stealthy/agile fighter. And of course, not everyone is expected to do a storyline. If someone does Gnome Hunter story? Gnome Hunter can be opened for all.