Race/Class Expansion 2, The Ramble Begins

[Grakor456]

So, I want everyone to know that this project isn't dead. Just been rather delayed because I ended up getting paralyzed with indecision on how to best approach it. In many ways, I still am, but I'm putting this out here for a few reasons. One, it helps illustrate some of the decision-making processes that go into some of these big decisions like this, and two, there may be some genius out there who knows the perfect solution to fix this mess (and who should go on to eliminate world hunger and cure cancer.)

So, overwhelming vote is to bring "some, but not all" of the class combinations into the light. Hooray gnome hunters! Then I realize, with growing horror, the problem inherent with this kind of vote. How the heck am I supposed to stick with that resolution and not piss off half the playerbase no matter what I do? OH GOD HELP SOMEONE SAVE ME I WAS WRONG I APOLOGIZE JUST GET ME OUT OF HERE AHHHHHHH!

So, consider the following situations or ways that we could tackle this:

Edited Note: These are not poll options. These are ways that this could have been handled, but we're not choosing to pursue because of the listed problems inherent with them.

1. GMs vote amongst themselves and create a list of combinations we really don't want to see and we have those "DO NOT WANT" combinations barred. This results in the playerbase angrily saying that they didn't have a voice in what was or was not barred ("WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T BE A GOBLIN DRUID, WHAT IS THIS STUPIDITY?" along with "WHO WAS THE MORON THAT SAID THAT DRAENEI WARLOCK WAS OKAY?!") and that we're just imposing our own desires on the server as a whole. At the same time, from our perspective this creates a situation where players can't "Wow" us and make an argument that we hadn't thought of before that could make something make perfect sense and allow a great story.

2. We take each combination as they come and just roll with it, and hope that in the end the chips rest in a way that works out for everyone. This is a bit...luck-based by my reckoning and creates an issue that we often have to be faced with: in this sort of system it's very hard to say, conclusively, "no." Much like profiles, this would create a situation where people would change things in order to capitulate to our problems/demands, and that leads to eventually everything getting passed.

3. We open up polls for every possible combination and see what popular opinion decides. This is wonderfully democratic, but sometimes democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. For one, this minimizes the ability for players to communicate their own amazing ideas before the votes start rolling in. For two, there are concerns that votes will end up skewed due to a number of factors, primarily the people who didn't want to see this system be implemented at all. This answer is also extremely time-consuming and involves a lot of clutter.

4. Do #2, but with imposed limitations, For example, put down rules that "no one race can have all classes and no race can get more than two new classes" or something along those lines. Which sounds cool, unless you're that guy that wants troll paladins. It also makes the whole thing kind of rigid and the limitations artificial. This also creates a very "first good poster wins" kind of situation and I'm not sure that's ideal here.

What do?

It seems that no matter how it's approached, there's going to be the inevitability that some folks are going to be unhappy. Heck, some folks are unhappy that the idea got passed at all. So our job is to work this in so that the most people possible are happy while the fewest possible people are angry. I know, I know, "YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!"

We're still discussing internally how to approach the issue, but you're free to comment on stuff here.

...

YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!

[Scout]

Thank you so much for the update, Grakor. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this system unfolds, especially given the ideas I have for it myself. I personally would lean toward option 2, but...I just woke up, so I'm not prepared to defend my position on that. Maybe later when I'm more awake.

[Grakor456]

To note, this isn't really a poll, just an explanation of where thought processes are now and why certain choices aren't being done right this moment. #2 is problematic specifically because it violates the poll done earlier, since we definitely don't want everything eventually getting passed.

[Scout]

Well, thanks for the update anyway. ^^

[Mathias]

I believe the best option is to just let me handle all of the race/class combos.

Goblin Paladins allowed.

Everything else is banned.

[Kaghuros]

To be honest, I'd prefer a little bit of a mix. I like the idea of #1 if only to lay the groundwork, especially since so many classes can be easily thrown out in the first place for lore reasons. Looking at the chart of races and classes, for example, we have gaps like Undead Druids who can't exist per lore (Undead are cut off from nature magic, as Sylvannas and the Dark Rangers show us), and Tauren who can't really be Warlocks since they're so sensitive to Fel magic in the first place.

Basically, it's really easy to give a conservative base list of 100%-lore-friendly classes, and ask for suggestions on how others might fit in afterwards.

[SachikoMaeda]

Go number 2, buuuuut make GMs discuss it over. Maybe start off with new race/class combos as special profiles? In time perhaps the staff can generate a list of allowable race/class combos.

[FlyingSquirrel]

My personal belief is that #4 would be the best idea, but with perhaps a smatter of democracy. I'd go through and establish which ones cannot happen by lore, such as Undead Druids (they're cut off from nature), Draenei Warlocks (it would either make them Broken or Eredar), etc. Cut those off, provide quotes as to why they're cut off, and leave the discussion there. It can't be reopened, and it's set in stone that these cannot happen.

Then, with the other classes, you accept an individual application on a case by case basis a la special profile. You create a secondary application that they have to submit with the profile stating any lore for such a class, why the character went through with it, what the mixture can contribute to RP, yadda yadda yadda. And if the profile goes through, then the player is given a month timer. This doesn't mean that all profiles would go through. In fact, I would hope that more are denied just because the reasoning isn't there than are approved. During this month, other character profiles for the same combination cannot be accepted, so to reduce confusion. At the end of the month, other concepts can be allowed in. Of course, if they have something tear them from the server, then this can be extended or whatever, but if nothing happens, then the timer stands. During this time, this trial period, the player cannot begin to tutor other characters in their profession; it's only the one player.

At the end of the trial period, a poll is opened up, asking of the server; What do you think of the mixture? Did player <x> make enough of a convincing point through their roleplaying to allow such a combination to happen? Did they not? Maybe a handful of other questions for variety. Then, you let that go for a week and see what the server thought of it. If they said no, that the class should not be RP'd, then that's that. The character is deleted or retconned to another class, and the server returns to normal. If the server says yes, then the character is allowed to continue, and the server begins accepting more profiles for the same class combination.

Anyways, that's my take on it. There would be a high chance for drama, especially if a player's representation is not voted good enough by the server and the player is pissy about that, but I would hope against hope that the server can handle that maturely. Naive, yea, but I can still hope. But ultimately, I think the chance for drama is there with any direction the server takes this.

[Mathias]

To note, please read what Grakor has in red. This isn't a poll, this is just "Man, this race/class thing is DIFFICULT".

[FlyingSquirrel]

but you're free to comment on stuff here.

Perhaps my interpretation of comment was a bit too liberal, and if so, I apologize. But my intention was to do only that. Sorry again!

[Harmonic]

Whatever you guys do I'm sure would be fun, as long as we get to mix things up.

I honestly hope this extends to Monk in the future, so that we can have Worgen and Goblin monks.

That to me is still ridiculous. I just want a J. Talbin from Darkstalkers, please. THANK YOU.

[Xigo]

Private discussion thread for each individual case. Judge them as they come.

[Grakor456]

Draenei Warlocks (it would either make them Broken or Eredar)

Except that is not true. Honestly, if we're going by "this is barred completely by lore" then the only thing we'd be crossing out is undead druid. Which doesn't seem good enough to me.

[Kaghuros]

Draenei Warlocks (it would either make them Broken or Eredar)

Except that is not true. Honestly, if we're going by "this is barred completely by lore" then the only thing we'd be crossing out is undead druid. Which doesn't seem good enough to me.

That's why my suggestion involved making a fairly conservative first-list, and then taking suggestions for further entries if people can give a good enough argument for it.

Tentative list in my opinion:

Spoiler:

Human: Shaman (learned from Wildhammer Dwarves)

Dwarf: None

Night Elf: Warlock (Shen'dralar summoned a demon to siphon energy from much like Blood Elves did)

Gnome: Paladin (It's stated by Blizzard in their rationale for Gnome Priests that more Gnomes have turned to the Light recently thanks to the Dwarves)

Draenei: Rogue, Warlock (Not all Draenei are going to be pure goody-two-shoes, especially after millennia hiding from their "cousins" and seeing that awesome power firsthand in Outland)

Worgen: Paladin

Orc: Paladin (Sunwalker-taught, probably)

Undead: None

Tauren: None

Blood Elf: None

Troll: Paladin (Sunwalker)

Goblin: Paladin (Sunwalker)

[c0rzilla]

Goblin: Paladin (Sunwalker)

What's Mathias paying you?