Concerning Horde vs. Alliance

[Mikain]

Character death happens. Everyone seems to say they hate it, but it still happens. It's the same with every issue that people seem to be disgusted with. Erp, Drama, etc. Everyone seems to have a problem with it, and it all keeps coming up. BUT it doesn't change a thing. Ever. Everyone hates Drama, someone posts telling others to stop, it continues. Everyone is disgusted with he level of erp, someone mentions it and everyone agrees it needs to be lowered, yet it isn't.

It boils down to having to accept things how they are. We will never be tailored to everyones needs and we honestly don't try to be. This has nothing to do with he original idea, but I thought I'd stamp on the people trying to change the thread.


In regards to the original post, I agree. No matter how tough the world is, murder is still murder. Even if you are a hardass Orc that completely hates humans. Now, I'm not saying that people should be chums and more friendly, but I am questioning why someone feels their character must only ever kill kill kill. It reveals a lot about their subconscious desires.

Also, last minute in response to the above post. Those are game mechanics, the designers don't give a rats about RP or fun through rp.

[Brutalskars]

Ever played DnD?
Character death is gonna happen it is an RP based game.

And in real life, if you die, you die.
In fantasy the soul can only sustain so many ressurections.

So in COTH we limit it to One ressurection, and it needs to be possible, if no one that would rez you knows your dead, you stay dead.

[therew]

I cant help but want to give my two cents on this. The orc's and the humans have been at war for about 40 years, and yea that will cause a ton of animosity. But I don't know how much animosity it takes to want to kill someone when you see them. And to some extent I feel it shouldn't matter. Taking into consideration the rules that everyone gets one resurrection ( which may not even come depending on where and how you die) I think as role players we should be slower to dish out the warnings of death. No, we are not to be buddy buddy and full of love and such. This is in fact WARcraft and not Care bears. I think people who are playing characters should really sit back and think. Like a night elf in the barrens is asking to die really even if shes in ratchet shes begging for death by being in horde turf and vise versa for a orc in Ashenvale.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that both players are responsible should a character be perma-killed. The killed character fault for getting himself in that situation and maybe even the killers fault for not allowing a way out if the player of the dieing character showed that he wanted a way out. And maybe in RARE cases an ooc bail out just to prevent the death if passions get to high.

[Armistad]

Here I am sitting on the fence so to speak on this issue. For those of you who play with any of my characters, you know that I completely submerse myself in the roles that I play good or bad. Now with that said, caring for your character is one thing, never allowing them to experience or meta gaming them out of death; injury; or any harm; whether it be a bar brawl or a physical altercation, is something entirely different and saddening. True character evolution has a begining a middle a character arc and eventually an ending ( death aka curtains, riding out into the sunset "Come back Shane..." etc etc).

Every action you take, or not take has some form of an equal reaction IC and or OOC. Far to many incidences in game are not being brought up to the attention to everyone on the forums or the parties present when infractions are either made or stepped upon. As for the psychosis of the recent kill-kill-kill mentality, to frequent it doesn't seem to fit true reasoning or the essence of the RP being played out.

To often people come up with pre-scripted encounters or RP scenes that get
the- "Well we'll have to retcon it..." attitude. The object of RP is to not only submerse your character and have it relate and interact with others around you, but also to accept the outcomes whatever they maybe.

Don't limit yourself or those around you. If something is happening that is against lore, or objective reasoning, stop, go OOC seek out a Grunt, Hero, or a GM. Get a consensus of the proposed outcome, not the attitude of
::Enters Orc,see's 'race not of the Horde' Me go kill it-Dabu...::

Or members of the Alliance be it citizens, nobles, guardsmen, etc...
To frequent it seems, "Yeah well I served in the wars of x&y&z to the 3rd power. I trained with my brother's wife's, sister, who's uncle bought a bad potion from that Tira Gnome, would was brained washed by that crazy old Magi Nimboya into buying a plot of land in Desolace." and then oes of and kills, or maims player B.

So in essence, take a moment, reflect and talk to your peers around you.
Don't be somewhere you wouldn't normally be, and don't do something you wouldn't or shouldn't be able to do. And above all else use logic.

Sorry for the wall of eye bleeding text, cheers.

[Nostra]

Something to keep in mind is that most characters we have either have a past with the military, are part of a military guild or both of those. If there´s an Horde-Alliance encounter on say, Horde territory, it seems natural to me that the Horde character would act to defend against this possible spy. Especially with Orcs or Trolls seeing as their cultures are pretty much warrior based. I don´t see Forsaken or Blood Elves hesitating much either to be honest.

The Alliance character then, being in enemy territory, would likely be jumpy and when noting a Hordie running around nearby it´s hard for me to believe that they´d wave and scream for their attention. More likely they´d either ambush the character to learn what could be learned or hide, to make sure that they won´t be attacked by the brute/traitor/corpse.

I see a lot about character death being RP destructive, I´d say it´s the opposite, death could generate an immense amount of RP. For both the survivors of the encounter and the dead characters, we got the quest to ressurect the character, or to bury him, or to find revenge, etc etc. It could also open up a chance for you to create a new, even more awesome character to play with. People seem to be fixed on the negative aspects of it and ignoring the good, I mean, yeah, it does suck that a character dies but... so? It´s not like he´s gone forever, some day you could bring him back, maybe in another game or setting, only to discover that he wasn´t as cool as you thought.

This is warcraft and it´s very much an action game, if you prefer to have more peaceful RP I suggest that you stick to areas where you won´t encounter possible enemies. `course, this being the game it is that might be hard.

It all runs down to character in the end, if you play a peaceful character, act like it. If you play a warrior, act like that. If you don´t want to have you character killed, don´t go to places where that is likely to happen.

That being said, I really do suggest that you give Mikain´s post a good read.

[Theik]

I cant help but want to give my two cents on this. The orc's and the humans have been at war for about 40 years, and yea that will cause a ton of animosity.

No they haven't. Thrall made peace with Theramore, and lorewise the Horde isn't even at war with the Alliance. Varian declared war on the Horde, but he doesn't even have the authority to declare war for anybody but Stormwind.

Thrall has never declared war on the alliance, nor would the western alliance declare war on the Horde just because Varian went emo. The only reason this server they are at war is because somebody pushed it through as server lore.

In official lore, the Horde still has a peace treaty with the Western Alliance, and rather than being proclaimed a hero for striking down an Alliance paladin defending Ratchet, you'd have been executed.

[Cressy]

Official Lore doesn't matter if it is over-ruled by server-lore. So, ta-da.

[Kaelvan]

Before the battle, the Warsong caught a night elf. She wasn't killed because she had papers proving she was in service of Theramore. But she's gone missing.

As long as you can prove your -part- of the western alliance, and not just in the west. Then you probably won't be killed.

[Theik]

Official Lore doesn't matter if it is over-ruled by server-lore. So, ta-da.

Last I checked this was still a World of Warcraft RP, not an "as dictated by the GMs" RP. Events and the like are fine, but you can't exactly rewrite history. The Horde and the Alliance haven't been at war since the second war, so unless you completely retcon the peace treaty Jaina and Thrall made, they still haven't been at war for forty years.

I'm pretty sure the server lore picks up at the Wrathgate/UC siege event, which has only happened maybe half a year ago in lore. They'd still have been at relative peace for the last ten or so years.

[Kaelvan]

That's not true, Stormwind still declared war on the Horde, even if it was at a bad time. I assume that the Horde wont let them win without a fight, so they are at war. With Stormwind being the head of the Alliance at this point, I would think the Dwarves/Gnomes would be quick to join, let alone the hate between the Orcs and Night Elves is basically an eternal war for them.

[Tyr]

Alright guys, enough derailing over such a minor thing.

My opinion is, that character death, while not a good thing since it mostly causes pain and what not, is still a thing that will take place, as long as this war is going on. Even if we bring up topics like this, there will be death.

'Nuff said.

[Darkneon]

I'm afraid people have been only been doing selective-reading and responding to those who have. This thread wasn't meant to be simply an arguement about character death. If you re-read the main post; I also mention about alternative and how they make just as much sense as character death. The thing is, not everybody is okay with character death; and 50% of the time; the rp for that character ends right there. Nostra is also correct, but it hardly ever come to be that way; and one player ends up being screwed over. Though, this also isn't always true. They can start again, but what if they weren't entirely giving their consent to having their character murdered? Why do we find it so hard to just say, alright; you arn't cool with it? Then consider an alternative. Does the first action against another faction player you fight mostly have to be: kill? What I'm saying I guess: Is where do we draw the line as players?

[Vrahn]

My question is regarding why are people getting involved in dangerous things when they aren't prepared for that danger themselves?

[Darkneon]

All cross-faction interactions tend to be dangerous it seems. (Not always the case, though.)

[Vrahn]

It's best to not get involved in risky Rp then if you're not up for it. Everyone should be aware of the potential risks on this server, and they should be ready to accept them if they walk into a dangerous situation. Though these risks vary from minor scares to death, it's not always possible to avoid death without the attacker breaking their character. In the case of major battles it's easy to get away with just maims and such, but that isn't going to happen in small encounters unless their character would let them go. And frankly, when characters get themselves into really bad situations, they do deserve to die. You -cannot- run in, start messing with stuff, maybe even start attacking someone else, and expect to get away scott free.

Anyhow, that's my views of it.