A Technological Query

[Commissariot]

Ok, this is gonna be a bit long winded but bear with me.

I do not claim to be a weapons chonographer or what have you, but I do know quite a few things about the historical development of weaponry. When the first WoW came out, It was pretty easy to see that the technology point they were going for was post colonial, (muskets, beyonets, birth of the hand grenade, cannons...think american revolution,) with notable exceptions like the steam tank, gyrocopter and the subway. (Which alone skip generations of R&D.)

But now everything seems to be up in the air. Skipping total technological generations of weapons entirely. For example, the guns alone.
When you start out, you start with basic muskets, blunderbusses and rifles. (Or yeagers if you prefer,) which is fine, there all black powder weapons, all are fairly unreliable and all take forever to reload.
But then, especially if your a engineer, you start seeing different things entirely. weapons that almost could follow the function of a post world war two assualt rifle like the AK-47 or semi auto rifles like the german GWER or the US M1 Garand. Despite that between these time periods everything from internal combustion engines to machine guns were developed. Thats not even mentioning that the Gatling gun was in the field before self contained slugs were used in the american civil war.

Then theres the social development stuff and other things that seem rather minor. Catapillar tracks for tanks. Rotating turrets, preservable canned food, Refridgeration, sewer systems, modern plumbing, lightbulbs. All seem to simply not exist or somehow were never even considered. (all of which appeared before underground electric trains, by the by.)
Then theres aircraft, the modern fixed wing aircraft supercedes the helicopter by generations. Though not even bi-wing planes are used in WoW.

Then theres the rightly insane things that we modern people dont even have yet. Like dragon robots that intelligently attack your enemies, or carry-able mini turrets that do the same.

The only reason I bring it up is becuase I'm A little bit cautious now on what to give my characters as weapons and tools. Obviously I wouldnt ever give my character a tommy gun WoW variant, or even something as insane as a semi auto rifle. But would a Bolt-action rifle be out of the question? What about a revolver? What about bungie cord? Gillie suits?
I also bring it up becuase I was planning on making a Inventor of some sort, probably a gunsmith, and the last thing I want is to overstep the lores bounds. Again, I wont be making a Abrahms tank, but what about any the social and technological stuff I mentioned above?

Anyway, any answers on this would help me out allot. I couldnt find anything in the forums about it in the guides section.

[Zason]

All I can suggest is immerse yourself into the existing lore. Use what you find in WoW's lore and history. Do not try to find a time equivalent in our world. World of Warcraft is a fantasy and mixes technology. There would not be a real life match.

[Touchseed]

The culture and race of your inventor will have an impact on what he's like. A Dwarven inventor will put his machines to work, probably military application... And probably guns. They will be more conventional, black powder, bombs, etc. A Gnomish inventor is heavy in theory, and long and drawn out. Gnomes represent one prong of the tech tree and have a 'Evil Genius/Steampunk' flair. You'd be messing with really strange things but you might not be able to use it all. If your Horde, you -might- be toward the Goblin tech, which shares the Evil Genius bit, but your works become usually self-destructive.

WoW isn't real life, so don't compare them. I recommend actually taking the real profession on your character and imagining through process. You start with really crude things and it gets more sophisticated. It's up to you how much of that you want to use in role-play.



On a side note: Please don't make a Paladin with a motorcycle.

[Piken]

I'm no expert on.. really anything. But I can say that Gnomish technology is.. well -incredibly- advanced for the time period, and is advanced compared to our modern world in some ways, like you said. But I've discussed this with a few other people.. and we've come to the assumption(or whatever you'd like to call it..) that Gnomes, while have incredible technologies far more advanced than anything that you'd think would be in this age in WoW, they do lack in certain departments. Like.. computer programming. They can pull off basic stuff, but, at least a couple of us, don't think that they can do much in terms of.. very complex programming things for robots, etc. Yes, they have their models and such, but think of how much time and resources went into those, as well as who was creating them(The greatest minds of the Gnomish race, most likely).

But! I'm rambling on. Sorry, I <3 Gnomes. What I'm saying is.. there's actually a good amount of ground that's covered and such. For the most part, yes, most weapons would be like muskets, etc. but I've seen(and RPed with) revolvers, semi-automatic weapons, even remote controlled explosives. I think something people should do with this all though is realize that this technology, while complex and all that goodness, still holds its flaws and should RP them out every now and then. Like.. explosives that are duds, guns getting jammed, and so on. Of course, this is all speaking Gnomish(And a little bit of Dwarven) technology. Horde engineers, as few as there are, usually would be learning from Goblins, I'd think. Which.. Goblin tech is really just crap thrown together that sometimes works.

So, to answer the question, yes, I don't think it'd be too ridiculous for you to have a revolver(My Gnome has two. :P). As long as it'd make sense for your character to have such weapons. Otherwise.. yeah. Okay, I'm done!

[Commissariot]

Thanks for the help!

And yes, I realise this is a fantasy world and certian things you just have to accept, but tech. (especially engineering,) Is very specific to what you have to work with at the time, and what innovations you can create with what you have to work with. Engineering in this game is just: "Hey! wouldnt it be cool is players could make (insert ridiculous tech here.)" Like for example the chopper they let engineers create.

Yes, I realise also that the lore should be the first place to turn to but since between the second war and WoW they have come leaps and bounds without any explaination at all, I have to try some real world timestamp to try and pinpoint it just so I dont create something that someone will say. "Hey! you cant do that!"

So in essence this post is just to avoid that conflict. Or the engineer in me trying to make sense of the scattered goofyness. Which I should have learned long ago not to try, seeing as with each new installment of WoW blizzard seems damned and determined to try and nuke it whenever they can.

If anyone wishes to argue that, can you honestly say it makes sense that the draenei just magicly appeared and crashed a spaceship into a island?

[Alhert]

Another thing that need to be mentioned is that Azeroth is a world of Magic; now, outside of the generic plothole coupon 'A wizard did it', this does have an effect on things.

Firstly, look at power. Take, for example, the flying thing; yes, fixed wings worked before whirlybirds IRL, but whirlys were designed first (Da Vinci). The reason we couldn't make them work is the problem of weight-to-power ratio; meaning, the engine (be it human, mechanical or early internal combustion) was too heavy for the power it produced. Well, with a magic power source, the heaviest part of an aircraft doesn't need to be, and can be about as powerfull as...well, something very poorly defined.

Second, magic does things unintended; you make a statue of a beastie, believe in it hard enough, magic gets too it, and suddenly, it is a beastie, for all intents and purposes. So, you make yourself a robot dragon, make glass beads, put them in 'eye sockets', and think that it should work, because, well, look, they're eyes, that's how they work, you see through them, and...yeah...

In our world, it's not going to work. In Azeroth, the powers might just make it so.

[Commissariot]

Ahh, forgot about Da Vincis designs and thats true enough, but even before he developed the corckscrew flying machine he dreamed up long range gliders.

Then I wont even get into the difficulties of intelligent robotics. As you posted, the "magic did it" is just a black hole of trying to explain away that which doesnt make sense. The problem I have with simply accepting it as WoW fact is that just by being able to create eyes from magic processes opens up a whole nasty pandoras box of uncanon loops. Why not magical bionic eyes? bionic transplants of arms, legs, mechanical reconstruction of heads? all the sudden you have a iron darth vader that can fling around fireballs. becuase "Hez a mage PWN!"

Though you are right, magic is very much a part of lore and a intrical part at that. But from wha t I understand of magic is its a volitile energy that can be harnessed and shaped into a destructive or generative energy. Able to craft or destroy, and anything inbetween those two points. (Like making things float, allowing teleportation of the mage..) So yes, powering a machine by magic is possible,maybe even give a robot a certain amount of reliability, but even at that , to imagine a robot thats as responsive, and as reliable as dragon battle bots and auto targeting turrets...?

Maybe someone that knows more of magic in WoW can explain it better, or maybe I need to spend another sixty bucks on the D&DWC guide.

[Commissariot]

At any case thank you all for your answers, I have a good idea about what I can and cannot do now wihtout having to defend myself. thank you all again! I invite anyone else to post querys about WoW tech ehre if you would like.

[Harmonic]

A really, really basic way to put all of this, is that WoW doesn't follow the same standards of time our world does. While they may be advanced in one area, such as Gnomes with their technology, or primal in another, such as with Orcs and their seemingly barbaric tools, it's all because it's a fantasy setting. Draenei, use obvious fantasy means to do things, powering stuff with crystals and whatnot.

Basically, trying to put rhyme or reason in a fantasy setting will... just give you a headache, really.

[Commissariot]

That is very true.

I think I must make logical sense of things is becuase im used to rp on very strict rulesets, like D&D or Warammer where what you can do and what you cannot is very well defined within its lore.
For example: Why cant I have a ork that was raised by elves? well becuase orks are warrior peoples that would most likely eat a elf once it can, thats if the elf didnt just kill it first.

Why cant my orc have a cannon on its forehead and summon 100 mile high castles on top of people? Becuase its conflicting with the lore in so many ways its unfunny.

Thats all I was trying to figure out, how far is too far when pushing the tech in Warcraft lore.

[Zunaj]

I think what's been said here can be summed up quite shortly: The WoW universe is far different than ours. Most notably, the resources are a lot different. One makes goggles out of strange crystals, and suddenly said goggles have an effect on the wearer. They stuff "Elemental blasting powder" into a bomb, it's gonna be more effective than just blasting powder.

I also want to add a little something, which doesn't seem to be mentioned ingame at all: Phlogiston. It's presented in the WoW RPG guide, and it's been quoted on Wowwiki:

Phlogiston is the miracle substance driving most technology in Azeroth. Phlogiston is a gas collected from the air and distilled into vials of liquid phlogiston; Produced by phlogiston collectors, vials of liquid phlogiston contain a precise mixture of oil, water and gas. Liquid phlogiston allows smaller boilers to burn at tremendous temperatures and pressures that enable portable tinker technology and gigantic vehicles to operate.

Liquid phlogiston — odorless, weightless, and almost undetectable — makes steam technology practical by speeding combustion and increasing the heat produced by steam boilers. In addition to its application in technological devices, phlogiston has found use in elixirs that alter the imbiber's abilities for a short time. Many technological devices use phlogiston as fuel.

The first samples of phlogiston were collected in labs of dwarf tinkers in Khaz Modan when a vacuum pump was used to collect superheated air over a kettle of molten iron. In the years since, the process has been much refined leading to the development of the phlogiston collector.

This, combined with the magic that seems to inhabit all sorts of strange materials, probably makes invention much easier(and very different) from that IRL.

Also, gnomes and goblins are FAR better inventors than most humans, and solve technological problems much more efficiently. They want a subway train, they make it possible. They're also (mostly) insane little people, who may test their newly created "Death Ray" cannon by licking it.

Oh, and there are bi-wing airplanes in WoW. Although they're mostly(if not only) seen in Wrath of the Lich King, and gyrocopters have been around for years, so I suppose your point there is valid.

[Commissariot]

Hey look at that! Thanks allot for the post. maybe wikis arnt total junk >.> Ill wander around there and post anyhting elsde important in this area here so at least theres some reference where its easily acessable. (At least, anyhting credable.)
Andactually I learned they also have machine guns in northrend as well. Which is interesting to say the least

[Commissariot]

(Since I didnt want to go and make a big whole mind blowing tech mess for those of you not so fascinated by such things. [Though dont doubt I could.] I instead ot focus my efforts on things that are probably a bit of a mystery. Such as!

STEAM ARMOR:
Technology has given rise to advances in metallurgy, pneumatics, hydraulics and powered mechanical systems. With the frequency of conflict in Azeroth it was only a matter of time before the power of phlogiston-driven technology hit the battlefield, and during the last war the goblins arrived with a new weapon.
The goblin harvester was the first insidious introduction to a new series of steam-powered armors. The suit could level forests and troops, and take an insane amount of punishment before falling to the withering hail of spells and gunfire that unfailingly targeted it when it appeared in battle. The harvester wrought incredible results — none could deny the power of such a creation. The gnomes and the dwarves stared in the direction of the gleefully wicked goblins running rampant with their new innovation, and collectively slapped themselves in the foreheads for not thinking of it first. Within a handful of years, a group of more complex and powerful suits arose, designed by dwarven and gnomish hands. The steam armor race was on.

Early steam armor was built with crude plates of iron and a steam-driven inner framework of mechanical pistons and hydraulics that served as the armor's muscle. Mechanical systems and drives interlocked to provide power to weaponry or tools mounted on the extremities. In most cases, the armor was built to resemble a humanoid form, although many incorporated some element of the fantastic: aspects of gargoyles, leering faces, griffin helms, and other flourishes that made the armors more fearsome and awe inspiring.

Modern steam armor is based on modern technology and uses the refinements of dwarven and gnomish craftsmanship. Goblins rely on pell-mell construction; the older suits having proven reliable enough, goblins don't see much reason in adding to the design, and simply go on to build new devices.

Gnomish and dwarven steam armor tends to be lighter and faster, and operates with a varying degree of maneuverability. Goblin steam armor is heavier and much more powerful, but not anywhere near as fast or customizable.

Steam armor is almost always built with some form of integrated weaponry. Buzzing saws, blades, long piercing spikes, even steam powered ballistae and cannons have been seen attached to steam armor. Whether mounted on the arms, shoulders, or even the backs of steam armor, most of suits have at least one or two weapons they can use in combat.-wowpedia.org, Warcraft rpg books

Now why bother? Well mostly so you know what to expect if you ever find yourself on the nasty bits end of one of these things. (or if you want to encorporate one into a rp scenario) That said, it is steam tech. Steam, though cheap and a excellent workhorse, also has reliability issues, for one, too cold, no steam, too hot, too much steam at once, and steam engines traditionally have a nasty startup time, and a reletivly very quick cooldown. Plus considering they are very large, you can also expect them to be pondering, even the faster gnome versions. Sadly taking it down means knocking out the driver...(unless you have explosives.) Whom is often protected in some way. be careful out there with these things! metal will trump flesh every time if it hits ya.

[Piken]

My Gnome, Piken, just finished making his Steam Armor. ^.^

[Commissariot]

Its awesome stuff! If theres anything that can make a steam tank crew shutter it has to be a pimped out goblin shredder. but, I think if goblins were on the other side of those things they might just crap themselves...or get a really really big bomb...Unsure which.