The Forsaken and the Light

[Grakor456]

Uh, Blizzard has actually made some effort in explaining it. It isn't the holy light the moocows believe in, it's the power of An'she (Or the sun, one of the Earthmother's eyes according to the Tauren).

This, pretty much. Cataclysm is still a long way off, and Blizzard does seem to be trying to justify the new classes with new lore, so we'll jump this bridge when we get to it.

[Mikain]

We aren't saying that everything automatically makes sense because it is in game, what we're trying to get across is that saying something can never work when it is clearly there just doesn't fly. Sure something like a shadow priest in a society that normally doesn't accept it would be hard to pull off, but not downright impossible to the point where it should be denied before even looked over.

[waffenbaum]

new lore

That sort of thing always makes my skin crawl. I'm just a traditionalist at heart. But, in light of this thread, why not just look at the forsaken using the light and say, "why not"? On retail I had a human paladin who was killed in a large RP battle with forsaken players near Lordaeron, seeing as the character had become somewhat uninteresting at that point, I remade him as a forsaken warrior. Saying that the light had abandoned him in death. Simply because there is no forsaken paladin class. And I thought this made sense. But had the same thing happened to a human priest, he could easily have continued in unlife as forsaken priest.

Maybe the two sets of the same faith are just so different that while a paladin cannot retain his powers after losing his humanity, a priest possibly can? Personally, I think it should be left to the individual forsaken player. Some might even find good RP in not being able to channel the Light.

[Mikain]

And this is where we get into the Paladin and Priest light differences.

Paladins of the Light get their power from the light itself, it see's their deeds and grants them its power, this is evidenced by such figures as Arthas, who's light waned as he delved further into his quest to "protect his people", and Tirion Fordring, who's light stayed with him even after he was "stripped of it's power". This is why there are no undead Paladins.

Priests are many and varying. Every race has different ways of acquiring similar powers, these powers are then generalized in-game under one name. I think this is where the confusion lies, the various races and their differing powers all sharing the same class name. If each one had its own specific name, people would look at each differently, as they should. Forsaken can use holy powers, but not the same light as living humans do, for it burns them. Another example is night elven priests, while priests in name, they are a completely different class, calling upon different beings than the light and garnering similar results.

[Maxwell]

I am inclined to believe the Forsaken cannot spec Holy. The holy energy being channeled would fight with the necrotic energy that animates them, most likely causing damage. This is way different than a human wielding shadow magic. Just my two cents.

[waffenbaum]

But Maxwell, I think consensus is that the healing magic the undead use is "not" the same as the light, perhaps a variant of the same. We have to remember that there are, apparently, no clear rules for the use of the light/the force that makes it possible to heal others. It's not a sentient being which chooses who to help and not (if you don't count the Naruu)

Again, personally, I believe that when the light abandons someone, it is because of a psychological barrier within the person, rather then an actual denial of the powers by the "light" itself. Much in the same way people can suddenly lose the ability to talk, walk or remember events after forceful trauma. And if dying and returning as an undead isn't reason for a psychological blockage, well then I don't know what is.

[Nostra]

Hm. Seems that it is the name that confuses people, I think that what they means is that nothing stops a Forsaken to channel Holy, as in healing and mending, but that it can take different forms, just like Mikain said.

Maybe, to make it easier to understand, we should call it healing and hurting, a priest of the Forgotten Shadow would use a different healing magic than would a priest of the Holy Light. Their magic might take the form of shadowy energies, if that is what their belief would lead to, or it might be a blinding light, or soothing rays of the moon- whichever it would be it would still be "Healing", the same way any priest can cause damage through their magic, how it would take form would be governed by their belief and faith- dark, shady faith- dark, shady magic.

Edit: Waffenbaum put it nicely, that dang speed-poster!