Conquest of the Horde

CharizardDylan Wrote:No civilization is truly lawless, or else they'd all kill each other and die out. Naturally if you kill somebody in public, anywhere, people are going to have a problem with it, and in a town where murder is technically legal, they might even mob against a murderer and kill them in turn.

It's the beauty of lawlessness, most people with still follow some sort of guideline to keep striving forward

Certainly. But guards make the place seem like there actually is a single authority there.

True enough, for some reason whenever I try to think of a lawless encampment, I think of Bloodstone from Fable 2

http://fable.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodstone

Anyway, my perception of lawlessness:

1. The rules of these towns are normally unwritten guidelines that the higher ups(the rich and powerful) usually don't follow

2. These towns, in a way, are run by a single authority (normally the richest or the ones with the biggest guns)

3. Secluded and out of the way in order to get away with being lawless.

I would say that the reasons for guards should stem from a purely practical point of view; yes, the settlement might be lawless, but lawlessness does not mean lacking survival instincts or self-preservation. The denizens of the settlement probably still has a method of protecting the settlement from rampaging mass murderers.

Perhaps next time your character see another person getting murdered, he should start thinking, "That could be me." And -do- something, because as evil as you might be, the ultimate law that all living things follow is self-preservation. A lawless settlement that does not have a method of ensuring that it actually continues standing or doesn't burn to the ground in the first day due to a mass brawl is not a settlement. It is a graveyard.

Think about all the lawless settlements you had ever heard of IRL or seen in game, the bandit camps, the wild wests, Skullport in Faerun, or anything really. They all share a common trait; something exists in that town to ensure that even if the authorities doesn't care about drug peddling, prostitution, loanshark activities, black markets, or whatever criminal activities you might think of, they would still prevent outright murder happening in broad daylight.

Remember, evil does not mean stupid. Chaos does not mean lacking in intelligence. The only successful evil or chaotic entities are intelligent ones. And intelligent evil or chaotic entities does not harm themselves. A chaotic method of enforcement can exist; it might be even more effective then lawful methods of enforcement. In a lawless settlement, if you commit murder in broad daylight? Beat the crap out of him and then lynch him. Don't bother with a trial or anything, really, as long as the crowd goes wild during the hanging.

Again, lacking law does not mean lacking survival instincts. And I really do not think any settlement whatsoever can exist without a system in place that prevents mass murder occuring in the streets during broad daylight. Assasinations, yes. Walking around the bonfire stabbing people with dozens of others around you? I really don't think that is anywhere near practical.

I am running out of silver pieces.

Yours sincerely,
Zarquon

The denizens of a lawless settlement are those who want to live without law. If you want guards, RP in Booty Bay. Or Stormwind. Or Silvermoon. Or anywhere else.

Which they are, for whatever reasons, incapable of. As far as I know and I might be wrong though I do not believe so, that is the basis for such a settlement even appearing; misfits or outcasts ostracized from society or by the law for their actions or criminal activities. That does not mean that they do not want to live. Bruisers are a very simple example of lawless guards. In a lawful society, one might under go trials, judgement and then sentencing by an authority. In a chaotic society, one eats the fist and flies out of the establishment.

I wouldn't even go with bruisers. We take models of the core races, dress em up to be thug-like, and have them function like bruisers. However, they are in no way "guards" from an RP standpoint. We can simply rename them to fir appropriately. They will function like bruisers, because common sense would say that, if threatened, a society would take arms against said threat in order to keep their own lives.

The point of the settlement was to not have guards, to reach a point where player's were responsible for their own actions, and other's were responsible equally for reacting to such things. The player's themselves should act as a kind of "guard", wherein if someone is committing random murders, then they should be the ones to react, either by trying to intervene, like a paladin, laughing and pointing, like a very evil character, or running off to save their own ass, like a stereotypical rogue.

Adding guards takes us right back to square one where GM's have to be called in whenever anything happens to sort it out. People should just react IC. If no-one reacts to a murder, it shouldn't be seen as bad. Its just that the character's present have no motive to risk their own life for this stranger in most cases. If I, myself, were on this island and saw a murder taking place, Honestly, as much as I would like to believe I would stand up for the person, I know for a fact I would look down at the ground, and try to pretend im seeing nothing. I only have one character who would selflessly risk their life for someone else, the rest wouldn't stand up to a deranged murderer unless it was a very close friend, or it was some way beneficial to them.

People need to not complain if people don't react to the way they want them to. We all have our own characters, and we are all playing them how we see them, this isn't single player, and you don't need to be the centre of attention. We just might not want to get involved, and that doesn't make a person a bad RP'r.

I reckon an Ethereal should rock up to the town, think 'I could make some profit out of this' and suddenly set up a system where mass murder doesn't happen due to him setting up guards but immoral activities, large fights and the occasional death here and there wont bother him. He'd simply set up a trading industry there with no rules as to what can be brought and sold and little rules with what can happen inside of the town.

It'd be cool because I like my Ethereals. Also sounds like something one would do.

I'm not saying killing and things shouldn't happen but if someone (or more) walked into town and started to senselessly stab people to death then they would intervene and chase them out. Hell, people who die could be taken by the Ethereal's gang and sold to either a Necromancer who would be interested in the corpses or to someone who would actually want to revive them. It'd be a great business!

I support BountyHunter's idea. And I would ask Miah a simple question: "What if it was you?" And then another question, "Would you, as an inhabitant of that settlement, allow murder to take place before you, knowing it might be you as the victim?" Finally, "Would you want everyone else to stand back and watch you get killed for walking on the streets in broad daylight?" Self-preservation. Survival. Lawlessness does not mean stupidity. That is why even in the "Wild West" people appoints sherifs. Even the most uncivilized of societies have some sort of "guards". I believe that as long as it is a "settlement", it should have a certain system to prevent it from being a graveyard.

And if people had been reacting IC to murders taking place in broad daylight, I really do not think this discussion would be happening in the first place.

Ethereals for president! <3

Edit: I think a point to note that it is not only PCs who flee there to take refuge. There are probably NPCs too, else it would be an isle consisting of fluctuating numbers of people from zilch to 20, which is pretty unrealistic. Said NPCs are hence perhaps more suitable to fill the role of "Lynch Mobs" then PCs, most of whom doesn't care as they are capable of leaving the isle anytime and have an ale in Booty Bay.

Why would these NPCs all share the exact same viewpoint? Especially a viewpoint that very few of the PCs there seem to have?

NPCs don't often have the same viewpoint as PCs anyway or vise-versa. An example is cross-faction relationships. NPCs wouldn't do it, they'd be disgusted by it, but most PCs think differently.

^

Just like how most PCs think that random murder in broad daylight is fine, but most NPCs might not. BountyHunter brings up a good point; if you are comparing behaviour here, I really think PCs and NPCs should be nowhere close to being valid comparisons.

But this is a lawless settlement, so it's different. IF there are NPCs, they would be about the same as the average character that goes there. My point is, just continue letting the characters regulate it. You can't force the reaction you want just by putting a bunch of NPCs in. Especially when it goes against the entire point of the town's creation.

[quote="Zarquon"]I support BountyHunter's idea. And I would ask Miah a simple question: "What if it was you?" And then another question, "Would you, as an inhabitant of that settlement, allow murder to take place before you, knowing it might be you as the victim?" Finally, "Would you want everyone else to stand back and watch you get killed for walking on the streets in broad daylight?" Self-preservation. Survival. Lawlessness does not mean stupidity. That is why even in the "Wild West" people appoints sherifs. Even the most uncivilized of societies have some sort of "guards". I believe that as long as it is a "settlement", it should have a certain system to prevent it from being a graveyard./quote]


I wasn't being stupid. And I said that in my post, if I saw someone being murdered in this place, and it was me, I would say nothing. I just wouldn't. And I would have a great respect for someone who would, but I really wouldn't. Why? I don't want to draw the attention of the kind of person who is killing in broad daylight, cause they could very well turn and kill me next. That's not stupidity, or even cowardice. Its just natural, human instinct. If someone was killing me, in broad daylight, I honestly, would not be surprised if no-one did anything but run, scream, call for help. I would -want- them to help, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. Self preservation would be to NOT help, in the hopes that you can avoid the murderer's attention. It would be selflessness to help someone in that situation, the opposite of self preservation.

So to answer your questions, yes, if I were an inhabitant, and witnessed a murder, I would likely cry, and beg not to be next. Not step in front and say "Stop, foul villian, I will not allow this in my tow- *Stabbed* " And that's my choice. I shouldn't have to be a hero, just because my character is a *Insert character class here*

I haven't had time to go through all the posts so I apologize if this has been said before, and moot as it may be; I simply say, if you don't want to risk your character's life don't go to Alcaz, it is that simple. However, I do think people should be respectful and not try to ruin anyone's RP. Although your character may be prestiged and really uber powerful, you should still try not to be a bully of sorts, because people will take it OOCly also, given you interrupt or bother their RP. Let people RP as they wish and for CotH's sake, don't godmode it up.

That is all.