Conquest of the Horde

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(08-11-2011, 11:21 AM)Clovis Wrote: [ -> ]Anti-Prestige Folk: Prestiges are too restrictive! They hinder rp! We're better off without 'em!

'Certain' Anti-Prestige Folk: Prestiges are too restrictive! Now lets restrict people from playing them! STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.

Pro-Prestige Folk: Prestiges are fine! The roll bonuses don't matter to me! It's just for story purposes!

'Certain' Pro-Prestige Folk: Prestiges are fine! Just uh, don't take away our roll bonuses, bro. U JELLY?

Why do I get the vibe -all- of this could be cleared up if we just had a dedicated system in place for RP battles?*

*EDIT: But that's a whole 'nother can of worms for a different discussion.

I'm going to attempt to simplify some thinking on prestiges with a few examples.

Example(s) #1: A Burning Legionnaire, a Diabolist, or a Demon Hunter. A Burning Legionnaire has a unique set of skills and abilities, and it does not fit into any existing WoW class. Custom Models can be involved too. I can see the wish for a variant/prestige/something system in this case. Getting rid of the prestige system entirely and never having a new one would kill the option to make one.

Example(s) #2: A Savagekin, a Witch Doctor, or a Whisper Blade. Everything needed to play the class is given to you as a druid, shaman, or rogue respectively by Blizzard (What do you think the Feral spec for druids and Assassination spec for rogues represent?). Prestige is completely unnecessary in this case, as it should be able to be played without any special permissions. Getting rid of the prestige system entirely and never having a new one... Well, you can still play these things. It doesn't matter.

Example(s) #3: An Archmage, An Archdruid, or a High Divinist. These are just 'better' versions of their original classes. Drama comes from these more often because, if they exist, they -should- have bonuses. In a fair fight, an Archmage will probably always beat a Mage. An Archdruid will probably always beat a Druid, and so on and so forth.

The point of all this? Just stating what I see. I don't really care if we have prestiges or not, I just thought that classifying them and clarifying this might help the debate be more productive. Arguing about "Prestige" is arguing about a vague concept that people choose to imagine in different ways. I just want to add a bit of structure. It also shows that perhaps a few separate systems (Special Profiles, Variants, Prestiges, whatever) could be more effective than just trying to put everything in one prestige system. It's an interesting thought, if nothing else.

I pretty much see that this is quite a biased thread. What I gather from it is that those that are putting out reasons/willing to sacrifice the roll bonus for the model are being labeled as flames. While those that agree with the removal of the system are not warned even if they bring reasons.

So what I get from it is you're either agreeing with the removal of prestige's or your handed a 'don't like it get out' ticket. I've seen this several times in posts on this thread, and honestly it's starting to not settle to well with me.

I could care less if prestige classes are kept, or removed since I'll still be rping anyways. It's biased ideas like this that start to make me wonder about both the GM's, and the players. I've already lost quite a bit of RP time due to people leaving this server (Not blaming it on anyone since it was due to a variety of things), but I don't feel like searching for all new people to rp with for the third time. You as GM's have the power to take disciplinary action against anyone that abuses this power. Players have the ability to do a screen capture to send into a GM if they believe a player is abusing said power. Has either of these been tried? Also, if it was why did it fail to solve the problem? If every step has been taken to ensure fair play with prestige classes, and the problem is still there then yes they are flawed, and a removal would be a good option.

Perhaps we would do better without prestiges, but it was added as something unique to give players something extra to use with their characters. Given that it is a privilege to have a prestige if it is used the wrong way issue a warning, they do it again take away the title and if they make disrespectful remarks afterwards <.pban (reason)>.

(08-11-2011, 05:57 PM)cidaska Wrote: [ -> ]What I gather from it is that those that are putting out reasons/willing to sacrifice the roll bonus for the model are being labeled as flames.

Uh. We were? From what I recall the only person really getting called down was Cressy, someone actually supporting the removal.

You can take pretty much any post in here offensively in some way or another, to be honest. Unfortunately this is indeed an issue that is pretty much something people will have to deal with, though, as it is an administer who's making the call.

I'll stress again that we're looking at another possibility, but if that news pleases anyone I don't really know. I do know that by the time of the restart we'll know if we're going to employee it or not, though.

Hence why I suggested everyone chill out until we find out about this 'other possibility', Riggles. No need to be up in arms when hey! It might be better! Ya'never know.

[Thread needs more kittens.]

(08-11-2011, 06:18 PM)Reigen Wrote: [ -> ]Hence why I suggested everyone chill out until we find out about this 'other possibility', Riggles. No need to be up in arms when hey! It might be better! Ya'never know.

[Thread needs more kittens.]

And ponies. And hugs. And some love and toleration. Possibly rainbows. . . No, most definitely rainbows.

Frankly?
This thread really doesn't feel like it's about prestiges anymore.
It feels like it's purpose became solely between two parties trying to prove the other wrong, and a third party trying to get them to realize we're supposed to be mature.

And then there's a fourth party.
Me.
Partying.
Alone.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3g4cbrNA9U[/youtube]

Hell yes.

I've been seeing the whole "Unique place, let us be unique" thing being used, so yea. Maybe it's just me, but below is my argument.

Spoiler:

Now, listen to me before you start to flame, and let me be as clear as possible. It's not really your choice. Kretol literally rose this server up from the ground, and placed control in those who he believed would be able to control the server and run it correctly when he's otherwise too detained to do anything about it.

Sure, you may like the server in how it was different, but the powers that be have decided that it's wiser to keep away from that. Why? Well, have you ever tried to create your own universe. Because, let me tell you, I have, and it is a hard thing to do, even when only between two people. Add in more people, say 50, and you suddenly have 48 more people's tastes to take into consideration.

So, say that Kretol and Grakor decide to, say, conquer Zul'aman. But, hey, some people don't like this for one reason or another. Suddenly, bam, drama everywhere. Then, guess what? Either, the people running it either ignore the drama and keep moving, which makes more drama, or decide to not do it, which creates players not liking eachother, which ultimately leads to more drama.

And if we allow one person to change the world? Well, at what point does it get ridiculous. People who lead something, or do some other important thing; Will they be able to stay on the server for as long as it runs? What happens when the person has to leave for personal matters. Does the town they were running turn into dust?

Or, what else do you want to do? Create a revolution against Stormwind? Maybe take over Karazhan? Destroy a town? Great, either you get killed in the process or you just lose interest in the full thing. Sure, being able to make your own world is great, but when does it become too much, and how do you know if RP will stay here? How do you know that it won't just become another useless place?

Then, there's another thing. Servers can only take so much spawned objects before it starts to lag. So, if every guild is allowed to create their own town, what if there are too many guilds? What happens to the guild bases? Do they just disappear? Do they get renovated? Maybe I don't get exactly what you mean by changing the world, but that's what I understood.

Now, onto Prestiges. Well, there's nothing stopping you from rolling whatever you want on retail. /shrug

(08-11-2011, 06:18 PM)Reigen Wrote: [ -> ]
[Thread needs more kittens.]

Here, has my avatar for some kittens.

As this thread seems to have reached its twilight, I would but like to conclude my own personal opinions as to the matter; take it how you would.

Firstly, I personally feel that this announcement was ill-timed and represents a disconnection from the community.

Secondly, I feel that Roxas's signature most explains the entire situation.

Thirdly, I feel that basing your argument on the idea that you are being smothered by a higher authority only suggests a lack of individuality and balls.

Talking about balls, I feel that though we need to grow some balls to make decisive actions sometimes, we need to grow some balls to admit that our opinions and actions could sometimes be wrong.

After all, if the Server Administrator hates the Server because it doesn't mirror the ideal and perfect Xanadu that he envisioned it to be, perhaps there is some truth in the ancient adage; "Beauty lies in the eye of the Beholder'.

Rename the thread; 'The Problems -I- have with Prestiges and my desire to project these Problems to you.' a bit lengthy, but I humbly feel that it is more accurate.

Honestly. Chillax, log in more often, and come RP with us. Maybe roll a character for the Argus Wake for lulz.

(08-11-2011, 06:52 PM)Zarquon Wrote: [ -> ]As this thread seems to have reached its twilight

AND YOU.

Why yew no tell me yur characters? Yu are back!? 8O

(08-11-2011, 06:52 PM)Zarquon Wrote: [ -> ]As this thread seems to have reached its twilight, I would but like to conclude my own personal opinions as to the matter; take it how you would.

Firstly, I personally feel that this announcement was ill-timed and represents a disconnection from the community.

Secondly, I feel that Roxas's signature most explains the entire situation.

Thirdly, I feel that basing your argument on the idea that you are being smothered by a higher authority only suggests a lack of individuality and balls.

Talking about balls, I feel that though we need to grow some balls to make decisive actions sometimes, we need to grow some balls to admit that our opinions and actions could sometimes be wrong.

After all, if the Server Administrator hates the Server because it doesn't mirror the ideal and perfect Xanadu that he envisioned it to be, perhaps there is some truth in the ancient adage; "Beauty lies in the eye of the Beholder'.

Rename the thread; 'The Problems -I- have with Prestiges and my desire to project these Problems to you.' a bit lengthy, but I humbly feel that it is more accurate.

Honestly. Chillax, log in more often, and come RP with us. Maybe roll a character for the Argus Wake for lulz.

You seem to be assuming that only Grakor's opinion is put forward here, when in reality others have posted in agreement.

There are two parts of this. Your opinion is only one of these parts. I'm not going to get into a lengthy thing here, but if you're going to speak about disconnection with what people want then realize that you're not just speaking to one person. Other people may see you that way.

Also I'd advise you to relax as well. You're don't exactly come off as the most friendly person either.

My full and detailed opinion. Wooo.

Spoiler:

In all honesty? I stopped caring about Del being a prestige before I even finished it. Eventually, I just started to think, why bother?

Sure, RPing as a spell breaker is fun. You've got some abilities from three or so different classes in one bundle, all with a single goal. Not something that can be really RPed on one class.

However, I began to dislike it because, well, I have no idea what to do with him.
I never have time for events. More because I can't sit down and just RP through them much anymore (and the erratic schedule). I dislike combat RP with him for both the drama it will inevitably bring and the fact that I could never quite figure out how to properly implement the stats and effects for Feedback in roll. There's also the fact that, quite frankly, people don't like characters more powerful than theirs. It doesn't matter that the character could be overly specialized against one type. As long as he was more powerful, he was a threat to them. It got annoying to log into GMI and have people approach and tell me how their character can totally beat mine. After a while, it gets tiring and then I snap back.

And like it was pointed out, it's no fun when someone just dominates the event. Especially if you construct an event that gets beat by the one guy you never took into account. It sucks.

Sure, it was fun to write some of the stuff, as bad of a writer I am. It was nice character progression for him.

So, what will happen to him after he loses his prestige? Simple. He just becomes Sir Del Delamore, Knight of Silvermoon and holder of a bitchin' shield. He goes adventuring and all that.
Yes. He's keeping the shield. Some of his prestige stuff can easily be attached to his character for the sole fact he wanted more stuff and adventures.

tl;dr Don't care. Still keeping the shield.

But Binkleheimer! What about the other prestiges? So what if you don't like care for yours, others like theirs, right?

Yes. Probably. This post really isn't about others but about how this affects me and my RP. It doesn't.
I'll think of something. Probably.

That and I think blizzard never implemented Spell breakers in WoW is because they'd be either utterly broken or completely useless. The balancing for them is a pain. It's easier to make the excuse of them no longer being trained for some silly reason than to explain why they aren't wrecking every magical enemy.

These problems are not Grakor's problems only and it goes to trivialize the rest of us when you try to pass this off as one person's problem.

What does that matter? I thought this was a thread to share our thoughts.

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Spiralin

Terant

cidaska

Rigley

Reigen

Roxas65

Uthaniel

FlyingSquirrel

Dukica

Zarquon

Aphetoros

Rigley

Binkleheimer

Wuvvums

Aphetoros