Conquest of the Horde

As I said, if people honestly feel the need to exploit the system in that way...

Well, fine. It sounds like a pain. If they're -that dead set- on it that they would remake their character every time they wanted more armor, then I don't suppose I personally care to try and fix that. Though Kretol or other GMs may find this a much worse offense.

Everyone is taking things too literal. I didn't say that it is a necessity to have your visuals represented. But Roleplaying with a -visual- medium having as many visual options available is beneficial. Why take it away, what harm has it caused. Is this because of the failed currency system? -Yes- it would be nice for someone to walk into hearthglen selling items. But whos to say you can't do that now? I'd say you could do that better with .Addrp than without it. What if your only customer can only wear cloth and all you have is mail or some other class restricted item. Well give them an ID for something they can wear, you can keep the rp going and just spend RP money.

If you want to walk around your house, your bar, your city, your travels and whatever you do in a suit of armor and a tabard with your weapons out all the time. Thats cool, but you should probably play Elder Scrolls. Some people want to reflect what would be appropriate for different settings. I see no liable reason to take that away. And if its to dangle it above players so they can make a profiled character that just seems mean since its already been given to us.

If you want to force people to make profiles, and thats the only reason. Leave .addrp out if it please. Because it has nothing to do with making a profile. Most of the players who are on the server everyday, doing things have profiled characters the ones who don't are usually casual players or ones who haven't decided to do it yet. It isn't a bad thing. If GM's want to do this, then they need to act more GM-y. If you think someone is exploiting the system call them out on it. I still go back to the death that should've happened but was avoided due to lack of assertiveness. If you want to make a profile policy, then add one. Can't play a char until profiled, take a way bronze tokens whatever but if it isn't enforced it wont happen. And aren't we here to Role play? I always hated having to level using the game mechanics and going to AH for select items because I hate the game. Why is it we have to rely on retail ooc mechanics for any support whatsoever in the game? ( as far as grinding, for gold or level )

I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend time after work grinding for levels or gold to get one set for RP that'll eventually have when people leave hyjal. .Addrp is versitile and more helpful than it is harmful. Okay, well thats cool for you Players who only have one character or two characters, of course you don't care. You're going to make one profile never touch it again and you can continue. But what about people with alts, who want to use for storylines or to play other characters? We have them limited on what others have because they aren't approved? We need to stop limiting options for no reason and encourage RP. How about time limit on how long you can stand in hyjal? Or How about something that corresponds to the profile? So if we went on this process we'd have to limit chars like Tavren who has been more consistent than some of these approved grunts just because he doesn't have a profile. Even though the char has had more influence on some others and has been defined through believable action? I seriously don't understand the connection between .addrp and profiles. Is this Rigley's personal opinion because I do not hope this turns into a policy because of biased opinions you have. I'd be a lot more comfortable if this was unanimous with the other GMs.

Uh. I feel the same way as Rigley, but this is his personal blog area. No one said this is going to happen.

So, relax guys. You'll know if we are changing something when Grakor posts.

(04-21-2012, 03:41 PM)Piroska Wrote: [ -> ]At this point it appears we're scrounging for reasons to not implement a system that might very well be better than the one we have currently.

Not really. I think we -should- use a system like this.

But everything has its flaws, and it's better to point them out so it's known what needs to be watched for, than to keep quiet about it just so that if this goes through it will go through quicker.

I agree with Cressy.

For the record, Pharoh, I do not understand your logic even slightly. And as for the "GM's acting more GM'ly" comment, all I can say is that players should stop asking for the world to stop on their whim. So many people have no idea what it's like to be a GM on here, and let me assure you... it's a hell of a lot of work, and it's pretty crappy work too.

So, maybe players should just -play- and stop asking so much, and then let the GM's do the GM stuff, aye? Two way street there.

The way I see it...

GMs are players who agreed for the exchange of powers for less personal time.

They deserve respect as it is because they gave up a lot of time they could be spending RPing to help us out with things that, frankly most of which we could do ourselves.

(04-21-2012, 03:59 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]The way I see it...

GMs are players who agreed for the exchange of powers for less personal time.

They deserve respect as it is because they gave up a lot of time they could be spending RPing to help us out with things that, frankly most of which we could do ourselves.

Very well put. Exactly why I think saying "GM's should act more GM'ly isn't cool. Considering all the crap that the GM's here just GIVE away to people, including time, items... just tons of things.

Part of the reason I'm getting annoyed by this (As people can probably tell) is because of the fact that I see sooooo many people asking for things, and so few that actually take the time to thank the wonderful crew that's helping here on CoTH.

Every time I -see- Rigley, he's doing something to help people out. To me that's amazing. That's a sign that he takes pride in this job, and a sign that he is a good GM, and he's not the only one.


Pharoh, honestly man, I'd think you should be one of the many, many people that knows how GM's are, and how they have helped out things in the past, and definitely the current times. Don't take what they offer for granted, even if they are trying to reign some of it in.

My Logic is, .addrp is fine the way it is, because of the versatility it offers. It was a step in the right direction.

Acting more GM-ly would constitute in, enforcing rules we already have instead of changing things for no reason to coerce others to do what they're already supposed to be doing. Numerous examples. I know GMing is hard, I've spoke with others, who feel that GM's should step down like you did if it gets too difficult.

If you don't like what the players are doing, tell them to stop. If they don't, stop them. The GM's are in charge. Take charge instead of trying to appease everyone. I was under the impression this was something Rigley was seriously trying to implement, and with the change to the profiles, I figured this was a speak now or forever hold your piece of mind. I'm adamantly against this so I wanted to voice my opinion no matter how construed it may have come. I'm not 'upset' I just think its a bad idea. I didn't know how serious he was moving forward with it.

With All due respect Rensin. I'm very vocal in my appreciation of GM's and thank them quite often. If you look through my threads, posts and things even in ThePharaoh's corner I've defended the GM's -many- times because sometimes they won't say it themselves because they're being politically correct. I've been thanked by GM's for voicing my opinon in their defense and I still think the statement needed to be made. I'm aware of the sacrifices they go through, just from witnessing their frustration to leave RP they rarely get to have just to fill out a bronze token or Silver Token from one who demands it no requests it. Which is all more the reason I'm surprised we would want to go back to a Silver Token-esque idea. I don't ask for anything because everything I want I have, besides dragons and I don't want to roll a dragonsworn, you must be talking about someone else being unappreciative sir.

The absolute horror! A staff member coming forward to share his opinions (while clearly pointing out that they're his opinions) and encouraging people to provide their own input.

I've pointed it out in the past and I'm willing to do so again: either you want the staff to share more thoughts or they should be high-handed and just apply rules without any forewarning or discussion. You cannot have it both ways. I, personally, appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion and to see into the minds of a select portion of the staff. I'd like to see more threads like this and would encourage players not to post things that would dissuade such open communication.


Edit: I'd also like to point out that Rigley has stated a handful of times in this forums that the .addrp command and the Brozen token system are not being removed:

(04-21-2012, 02:51 PM)Rigley Wrote: [ -> ]And I believe it's been stated already that we won't be removing either the .addrp nor the bronze tokens.

I will once more denote that my support of the revision to .addrp (working for one set of armor for >80, unlimited for 80) is again just my own support. As far as I know neither Kretol nor Grakor have voiced their agreement or dissent to the idea.

I can see where you're coming from, Pharoah-- but there are vendors in the OOCC with casual gear, which I personally think could easily suffice in place of the set of armor allowed.

In response to simply crack down on the RP that may be questionable... I cannot do that. I can't devote time to checking every character I run into, and inevitably there will be people who will only act or RP a certain way when away from GMs. Even if they were to, we just -cannot- be there for everything. And not everyone is keen to report ill behavior.

In general though this isn't just for them. This, to me, would be motivation for good or bad RPer to make profiles. I earnestly don't see this as impeding RP much, since players would be able to get their set of armor (which, let's face it, tends to be the stuff most often used with .addrp-- the most intricate and the like) and then be able to get casual gear from OOCC vendors.

I do want to make it clear that I'm not attempting to discourage people's opinion in any way. I actually like hearing opinions, even if some of us are just going to disagree. Which may be the case here, but it's better to hear the argument than silence it.

(04-21-2012, 03:44 PM)ThePharaoh Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone is taking things too literal. I didn't say that it is a necessity to have your visuals represented. But Roleplaying with a -visual- medium having as many visual options available is beneficial. Why take it away, what harm has it caused. Is this because of the failed currency system? -Yes- it would be nice for someone to walk into hearthglen selling items. But whos to say you can't do that now? I'd say you could do that better with .Addrp than without it. What if your only customer can only wear cloth and all you have is mail or some other class restricted item. Well give them an ID for something they can wear, you can keep the rp going and just spend RP money.

If you want to walk around your house, your bar, your city, your travels and whatever you do in a suit of armor and a tabard with your weapons out all the time. Thats cool, but you should probably play Elder Scrolls. Some people want to reflect what would be appropriate for different settings. I see no liable reason to take that away. And if its to dangle it above players so they can make a profiled character that just seems mean since its already been given to us.

If you want to force people to make profiles, and thats the only reason. Leave .addrp out if it please. Because it has nothing to do with making a profile. Most of the players who are on the server everyday, doing things have profiled characters the ones who don't are usually casual players or ones who haven't decided to do it yet. It isn't a bad thing. If GM's want to do this, then they need to act more GM-y. If you think someone is exploiting the system call them out on it. I still go back to the death that should've happened but was avoided due to lack of assertiveness. If you want to make a profile policy, then add one. Can't play a char until profiled, take a way bronze tokens whatever but if it isn't enforced it wont happen. And aren't we here to Role play? I always hated having to level using the game mechanics and going to AH for select items because I hate the game. Why is it we have to rely on retail ooc mechanics for any support whatsoever in the game? ( as far as grinding, for gold or level )

I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend time after work grinding for levels or gold to get one set for RP that'll eventually have when people leave hyjal. .Addrp is versitile and more helpful than it is harmful. Okay, well thats cool for you Players who only have one character or two characters, of course you don't care. You're going to make one profile never touch it again and you can continue. But what about people with alts, who want to use for storylines or to play other characters? We have them limited on what others have because they aren't approved? We need to stop limiting options for no reason and encourage RP. How about time limit on how long you can stand in hyjal? Or How about something that corresponds to the profile? So if we went on this process we'd have to limit chars like Tavren who has been more consistent than some of these approved grunts just because he doesn't have a profile. Even though the char has had more influence on some others and has been defined through believable action? I seriously don't understand the connection between .addrp and profiles. Is this Rigley's personal opinion because I do not hope this turns into a policy because of biased opinions you have. I'd be a lot more comfortable if this was unanimous with the other GMs.

(04-21-2012, 02:33 PM)Rensin Wrote: [ -> ]Clothing should -never- be detrimental to RP.

It's nice to have, but if you "can't RP without it" what does that say about the quality of RP? After a while, that sort of idea comes off less like "An RP reason" to have it, and more like dress-up.

I understand liking items, since I get to be an item--hoarder myself... but it's -not- detrimental even slightly. Again, if it is... then we really need to try reading more, as not -everything- amazing needs to have a graphical representation associated with it.

I'd just like to point out that CotH is a means for visual representation to roleplay. I for one don't believe I could roleplay without it. I hate reading books, it's terrible, and makes me want to stab my eyes out. Yet, I love roleplaying on CotH to death. Simply because if I can't visually see the character, I can't get into the world of roleplay. Easier immersion, etc.

That's just my two cents.


Edit: And to reply to the idea of the vendors in OOCC to suffice in their providing of armor. The armor in general is all cloth armor, not things you'd find a warrior charging into a battlefield with. I like how CotH is set up now. You can roleplay without ever having to pve, but you can still pve if you wish to. I feel that if .addrpitem is removed. It's almost forcing you to have to pve if you want gear for X or X character, and you may have to for a while if it requires X level to be worn. With .addrpitem level 50s are able to wear things that would require 51-80

So what if the staff do openly express their opinions?

Players do it all the time so why would there be a special disinterest in theirs?

(04-21-2012, 04:32 PM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]So what if the staff do openly express their opinions?

Players do it all the time so why would there be a special disinterest in theirs?

I'm not sure I follow?

Was just kinda agreeing with Piroska.

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

I dunno what's going on this thread anymore D:

But I still have lots of ideas swimming in my head about dat economics. Personally, it was the subject in Rigley's post that stuck out more to me. One that's a much, much, muuuuuuuuuuuch more interesting subject (to me) than profiles or .addrp item. Mostly, that the .addrp item command 'kills' the economic function of COTH. Which, as I tried to argue in my previous post, isn't true entirely

I understand that most of us don't want to talk about it, and would rather focus on the player-profile stuff. But, I wanna ask, would it be worth creating / having a separate thread that deals with the economy?

...or have we given up on the whole IC currency thing?