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So there was this one time, back when Ratchet Arena existed...
Nah, not going there. But honestly, I miss silver-tokens for the reasons described, but I enjoy .addrpitem and, unless we somehow make a switch to something similar to Prologue's item system (which is essentially the same as silver-tokens, in the whole 'redemption' type thing.)
My one gripe is that it gives level 80s serious gear advantage and new-character advantage. It would be an interesting concept that, if we went back to STs, upon joining the server you could fill out a small questionnaire like gruntship or something and get a few 'limited tokens.' Possible limited to either green or blue items for one character.
.addrp is absolutely wonderful. Its a cosmetic way to make CotH more flexible and accessible than retail WoW. Please don't take it away from me. ;-;
That being said, there are a few things I'd think about on the topic of encouraging profiles and reasonable limits on characters.
The first would be to ICly commit to one or two outfits and weapons. Make it a part of the profile. Situational equipment shouldn't be off-limits and such, but if ICly they're obligated to an equipment list, then merchants can still have a place among characters whose players are willing to be good team players. If someone does make a permanent change to their gear, they should post both what it is and how they got it. Don't force a mod to approve before they can use it ICly, but with a tangiable record, a GM could question people who say, "Got new iron pauldrons, billyboar johnson made it himself" and the character isn't a blacksmith. Someone who cares about the server will correct blatant lore errors, and... Well, if someone didn't care, they probably don't RP in good faith anyway.
A profiled character of mine got new gear, but that's only after her ICly going "Ohmegee, dragon ivory, I'm gonna get a cool sord made" to many characters, ICly transporting the ivory and spending some time Icly without the gear, waiting for it to be crafted. And now she has to learn how to not suck at swords. (Fun new RP opportunities! Also, Flora is kind of dumb sometimes.) She got the ivory from the Argent event involving a frost wyrm, and having helped slay a dragon is an accomplishment that she'll never forget.
In my opinion, gear shouldn't define a character, but it should have enough of an IC presence that it could be stolen, damaged, or used to promote character progression. Once a character is profiled, their belongings should be a part of their living history on the server. Likewise, merchant characters should be a special opportunity for a character to have a reason to have a new look.
This is still a bit questionable of a system, considering that this would only apply to non-profiled characters, but why not have some kind of flag or constant-effect visual effect designate non-profiled characters as such? I don't want to promote discrimination, but being unprofiled ideally means "I need time to get the characters' personality and such pinpointed," right? I feel that the server could potentially benefit from a change in mentality from "Unprofiled" characters to "Unfinished" ones. A clear visual label wouldn't restrict them from any of the tools available on the server, and as long as people wouldn't actively avoid non-profiled people. Also, I'd be less afraid to call someone out for questionable RP when they're under the label of "undecided character." One of the things that makes the server special, after all, is the community that makes this world. Making Getting a character profiled is a step from "random fan character interacting with Azeroth" to "Member of CotH's incarnation of Azeroth."
And after the seventh "Hey, need some help with your character and their history?" whisper or OOC chat comment in-game, people might be more prone to commit the character to paper. (Yes, I am a callous person :P)
Thought just popped into my head!
Question: what prevents players from hiring another player's character to craft an item and then using the .addrp command to tangibly have it rather than rely on an actual crafting profession? .addrp doesn't necessarily have to diminish roleplay and it gives us access to gear that cannot be crafted using an in-game profession; that could potentially lead to further and other uses in roleplay (bowyers come to mind!).
Edit: Blech, typo!
Personally I think we should evaluate what exactly we want from the RPers as a whole. Currently, CotH has no rule or any standing regulation that puts emphasis on profiling your characters outside of some OOC bells and whistles, such as level 80 and the 2000 gold. If the desire to encourage more players making profiles, you shouldn't take away or limit what they already have (in this case, .addrpitem), you should make profiling more lucrative.
Personally, what I think would be great? Profiled characters get a single free stated item of their choice upon hitting 80. The player has to provide the item data (which you can get from WoWhead), and then file a ticket or PM or whatever to a GM. This would be mostly appealing to people who use enchants on their weapons, because you can't enchant RP items, so getting a freebie weapon of any sort would really help them out, because you can get -any- item regardless of it even being available by normal means. This says players from farming reputations or grinding raids just to complete their character's look, and for those of us who don't need weapon for enchant effects, we can pick other things. PvE gear, vanity items, mounts, whatever.
This might increase the "CotH players are spoiled" mentality, but I really don't think we're spoiled. I find rewarding a person works as better incentive than taking away what they've already had.
Besides, I really think our current system is fine, but hey if you wanna make more players make profiles (speaking of, the amount of players who don't profile is already an exceptional minority), this is my two cents.
...
Quote: (Fun new RP opportunities! Also, Flora is kind of dumb sometimes.)
Flora is adorable :3
....heh. Heroes.
Memories.
I still stand by my original assertion many, many,
many moons ago that it was a bad idea. But, looking back on it, my objection to it may have been...too pernicious. Definitely one of the times I was overly-dramatic and combative for no reason. I think the rest of the GM team and server could've realized the flaws of the system without lil ol' me being so...vocal about it.
If anyone from those times still remembers those days and, uhhh, was put off by my actions back then. I apologize.
For now, NOSTALGIA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJlbPqka3M
(04-23-2012, 04:11 PM)Krent Wrote: [ -> ]....heh. Heroes.
Memories.
I still stand by my original assertion many, many, many moons ago that it was a bad idea. But, looking back on it, my objection to it may have been...too pernicious. Definitely one of the times I was overly-dramatic and combative for no reason. I think the rest of the GM team and server could've realized the flaws of the system without lil ol' me being so...vocal about it.
If anyone from those times still remembers those days and, uhhh, was put off by my actions back then. I apologize.
For now, NOSTALGIA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJlbPqka3M
Personally speaking, some of us needed a wake-up call. I thought everything I did was great and needed praise. I'm glad you spoke up, because... everyone else acted like I'd hurt 'em if they did.
Personally I don't really like the idea of making -more- things available from profiles. It just kinda seems like...
"Oh, you want us to do profiles? Gimme something for it. I know you did away with two of the big reasons why we did profiles in the first place but dammit you'd better give us something else."
And... I don't really wish to get on this train of thought, but for me it is a bit inevitable when I read this idea. Isn't this why we're in this situation in the first place?
Will there be another thirteen page discussion about removing this addition of a statted item, if we were to reconsider some time into the future?
I just don't really feel comfortable coercing people with more things. Because there's kinda a lot already, and to add more on top of that just to get back to how things were previously seems like a horrible concept to me, at least from the side of the GM team. It kinda looks like something that's just going to spiral out of control after a while.
Yeah, honestly, we have everything here on CoTH. The only incentive that we could get to do profiles is to have something "Taken away", which really isn't taken away, just given to us at a -different- point. It's not like it's suggested that the characters are forced to have one arm and semi-blind... just that you get the clothing options once you are approved, instead of having fifty billion non-approved alts that are nothing more than fancy dress-up dolls.
I still think it'd be neat though to make the amount of .add rp items you could do though go up by adding tokens, somehow. That would in my opinion make it so people would have to work for the armor, too.
Well, that is why I also said...
Quote:Besides, I really think our current system is fine, but hey if you wanna make more players make profiles (speaking of, the amount of players who don't profile is already an exceptional minority), this is my two cents.
I personally think the current system is a-ok. Most people profile anyway even though they really don't -have- to.
I read the first two pages, but then I had to leave for work. It's now 2:50am my time so I'll just throw in my idea before bed.
Profiles
People on CotH are always encouraging RP. How could we apply that thought to the profiles? Vouches!
Yeah, you remember those? I still remember getting my first one on my troll. I really enjoyed the feedback, lots of those threads lately too. Anyway. My idea is have an approved profile to get to 50, and maybe some Silver Coins. Then, after said character gets some vouches from other players then they can be bumped to 80 with all that comes with that. Might help ward off shameless alt-farming.
The main theory is that level 50s show that it's a solid idea, and that 80 means you can pull off RPing it. GM approved, community tested kinda thing.
IC Coins
I love them. I want to use them. I will beat people with them if they disagree.
.addrp item
I love this tool, but wouldn't mind being rid of it. I miss my real gear from Silver Tokens. I'm not sure of the workload of the GMs with running events, Dragonsworn stuff and other goodies behind the scenes, but they have added Forum Helpers. Real RP stuff is important to me. Broken quest have that weapon you want? /token
Bronze Tokens
The only reason I use these is to either get real RP gear, talent skills or plan to profile in the near future.
(04-23-2012, 10:50 PM)Ural Wrote: [ -> ]I read the first two pages, but then I had to leave for work. It's now 2:50am my time so I'll just throw in my idea before bed.
Profiles
People on CotH are always encouraging RP. How could we apply that thought to the profiles? Vouches!
Yeah, you remember those? I still remember getting my first one on my troll. I really enjoyed the feedback, lots of those threads lately too. Anyway. My idea is have an approved profile to get to 50, and maybe some Silver Coins. Then, after said character gets some vouches from other players then they can be bumped to 80 with all that comes with that. Might help ward off shameless alt-farming.
The main theory is that level 50s show that it's a solid idea, and that 80 means you can pull off RPing it. GM approved, community tested kinda thing.
IC Coins
I love them. I want to use them. I will beat people with them if they disagree.
.addrp item
I love this tool, but wouldn't mind being rid of it. I miss my real gear from Silver Tokens. I'm not sure of the workload of the GMs with running events, Dragonsworn stuff and other goodies behind the scenes, but they have added Forum Helpers. Real RP stuff is important to me. Broken quest have that weapon you want? /token
Bronze Tokens
The only reason I use these is to either get real RP gear, talent skills or plan to profile in the near future.
Ow. My stomach!
Vouches were so, so damned difficult to get. I remember this only because I tried to get vouches three different times, in an attempt to test the vouching system back in my "Secret" GM days. The hard part about vouching, is that if you are indeed fresh on the server, you have to immediately find a group and cling to them for dear life.
There was also some hard policies in place, in regards to how vouchers were obtained. It was difficult to outright ask for them, as back then you weren't supposed to just RP solely for the sake of obtaining vouchers.
I think that that would be a heavy step backwards, even more so that re-tooling the .add RP idea. It relies a little too much on other people to work correctly, and accompanied with the profiles as well as whatever else... it'd just be a monumental task.
Plus... there was this teensy problem with vouches being insignificant. With the risk of sounding elitist... one crappy RPer ends up vouching for someone even crappier than them, and then you get things like our first wonderful summer experience, where you get the flood of "what am I witnessing?!" type RP.
I remember all that.
But that was more judging the User rather than the character. There shouldn't be as much pressure to get vouches. I dare say should again, but it should come more naturally. Encouraging the Users to get out there and RP. I've complimented people before on playing their characters well. Just throwing more ideas around.
I'm personally not fond of returning to a concept similar to vouches. In short, I would look to the feedback threads as to why this doesn't work. Some people get mounds of comments, while others struggle to get one or two. Now apply this to characters and their profiles and this seems like a process which could be very unbalanced.
I don't foresee us returning to a vouch-based system either way, since most if not all GMs seem to agree it was rough.
I think I put it this way before.
Great players vouched for good players, who then vouched for okay players...who vouched for 'eh' players, then vouches for bad players.
Turrible. :c
If we did that for profiles, eventually we'd have Thrall Proudmore Junior running around.
I'd like to think we'd have faith in our community, which I do, but we'd eventually get one or two people that skirt the edge of "This is an okay" profile, only to get accepted, who would in turn accept another that's even worse. It's the you-know-what rolls downhill effect.
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