Keeping or Ditching the Prestige System

[Anski]

Speaking as a GM in the place of a player, I just want -something- done. I have a character as many know that is standing on the edge of being a demon hunter, and the freeze in the system is irritating. I understand our ways of doing things are cycled ever so often but this has hands down been the longest switch from one system to another i've seen in all my time here and as a GM. I know it's being very selfish and personal but I really think that it's being so drawn out that it's irritating myself and the player base. I haven't had my hands in the prestige system discussions because largely I saw no problem with the last system, however I don't want to be the devil's advocate over it, change is change. However, I was expecting a new system to be thought of quickly or the old system continuing until a new one is immediately placed in.

tl;dr For the love of the-deity-in-the-sky, let's just do -something-.

[Aphetoros]

Speaking as a GM in the place of a player, I just want -something- done. I have a character as many know that is standing on the edge of being a demon hunter, and the freeze in the system is irritating. I understand our ways of doing things are cycled ever so often but this has hands down been the longest switch from one system to another i've seen in all my time here and as a GM. I know it's being very selfish and personal but I really think that it's being so drawn out that it's irritating myself and the player base. I haven't had my hands in the prestige system discussions because largely I saw no problem with the last system, however I don't want to be the devil's advocate over it, change is change. However, I was expecting a new system to be thought of quickly or the old system continuing until a new one is immediately placed in.

tl;dr For the love of the-deity-in-the-sky, let's just do -something-.

[LostStranger]

Speaking as a GM in the place of a player, I just want -something- done. I have a character as many know that is standing on the edge of being a demon hunter, and the freeze in the system is irritating. I understand our ways of doing things are cycled ever so often but this has hands down been the longest switch from one system to another i've seen in all my time here and as a GM. I know it's being very selfish and personal but I really think that it's being so drawn out that it's irritating myself and the player base. I haven't had my hands in the prestige system discussions because largely I saw no problem with the last system, however I don't want to be the devil's advocate over it, change is change. However, I was expecting a new system to be thought of quickly or the old system continuing until a new one is immediately placed in.

tl;dr For the love of the-deity-in-the-sky, let's just do -something-.

Agreement. It is the appropriate course of action for me to take in this situation.

...Except I'm not a GM, have any character even in the shadow of prestige, or have any right to say to comment on the flaws/advantages of the previous system.

[Duraza]

Honestly I think a more 'free form' would be interesting.. But as expressed before there has to be some kind of limits to power, or even some kind of limits to what classes can develop from a free form policy. I'm sure most don't care so much about having power greater than other players. They want to be able to be a certain class, have a certain title, or use certain spells. For example, I'm sure someone who wants to play a Necromancer simply wants to build a character who uses necromancy because they find it interesting. Not have an epic army of undead that no other players can beat. A more relaxed system for players who want to delve down the path of simply roleplaying a class should be available.

There are of course people who will want to have characters that are a bit out of the normal, perhaps with status/rank/power above others. These could be the Dragonsworn, Demon hunters, or even the 'Epic Prestige' as was metioned earlier with the Epic Necromancer example. I also think the stronger classes should still remain available, just perhaps with more effort put into them in order for a player to obtain them? I'm not entirely sure if I know a suitable system for that which allows a lessened work load for GMs but perhaps if there are the startings of a system that you guys don't want to scrap it can be used for these 'Epic Prestige' characters.

I don't think there are a lot of players who are going to look to apply for an 'Epic Prestige' if the system was seperated like this. Its just like how I can bet few of us would think about applying to be a Dragonsworn. Usually its a case of abilities, not players seeking power imo. But for the classes you can't dumb down or the players who want to become more powerful there could still be something.

[rentiger1]

If I might add something I feel the free form would work as long as you stay within a degree of normality for the class you started as, such as a rogue being a spy, or a hunter being a bounty hunter. These would be normal “professions” for that “class”, and I would like to distinguish them as such. When IC my character does not identify themselves as a “class” but usually a “profession” such as mercenary, tracker, thief. These professions fall inside a class.

When you are looking at something that does not really fall inside a class or strays so outside the norm of that class I thing these would be prestige titles, or specializations in a profession. This is where the prestige title becomes something we should work for or define. I feel it would be insulting for a player to come out the gate with a new character and be a demon hunter, or Fel Sworn, or anything that another play had to work for. It is like SWG just letting you become a Jedi Knight.

I think having a prestige title will give a player something to work for, to push to develop their character. We should see this progression on board posts and in RP. I think it will give us a greater sense of community as we have players training other players later on, it will push us to RP outside our safety circle.

I think that the prestige system is not a 20d product but something we can make our own as well. We just need to stop thinking of it as a 20d item and how it will work as a CoTH item. That being said, I think the Warcraft PNP RPG is 20d.

But that is no matter.

I am for prestige titles to those who want to seek them, I am for making them something you work for because they are marking that you have invested in the character. I also feel that if you get them, you also make a commitment to help other players train for them with stories and plots, almost like a mini-gm. I see them as tools to make the role play a more enriching event, and to add flavor.

[Aphetoros]

Grakor, methinks you should make a poll?

[McKnighter]

As those of you who attended the last Meet and Greet are aware, the current idea to keep the system is to set up a system of categories. Certain "titles" would be a category that you can just up and pick up off the bat, another would be something you would pursue but don't need GM permission for, and the most powerful would be similar to how we have things now. This would keep a highly structured system in place and would make things more open than it was in the past. On the other hand, it does not address the core problem of Prestiges being a D20 concept and not meshing with our game very well.

I very much enjoy this idea, the one suggested of now seems a bit to free, pretty much everyone will become a WoW Elite, one way or another, quite easily. The structured system allows more control, which I like.


Anyways, my two coppers.

[Grakor456]

Just keep in mind, just because a system is more free-form doesn't mean it won't still have limits put into place.

[Phoenixfire321]

All these opinions are forming an idea for me. This is the idea I kind of had, forgive me but it's just something I will share:

You have your normal character, your approved by a GM and you play.

If you choose so to be a prestige class then make a special one, with a trust system of set requirements you have to meet before you can become this prestige class.

The GM would check your requirements then check and see if you fulfilled these requirements.

Of course the GM's have to approve your length and difficulty of requirements and both your profiles and accept your access to your class.

[Jason]

All these opinions are forming an idea for me. This is the idea I kind of had, forgive me but it's just something I will share:

You have your normal character, your approved by a GM and you play.

If you choose so to be a prestige class then make a special one, with a trust system of set requirements you have to meet before you can become this prestige class.

The GM would check your requirements then check and see if you fulfilled these requirements.

Of course the GM's have to approve your length and difficulty of requirements and both your profiles and accept your access to your class.

Hmm...you may have to elaborate on that more. I don't fully understand what you're going for. You mean an approved character profile, a new prestige profile after that, and then certain events to be fulfilled in RP in order to gain the title? If so, it sounds remarkably like the old system, which you probably aren't knowledgeable on.

[DaveM]

As one of the people whose prestige got caught mid-change, I am also eager to see anything get settled.

That said, I think the proiority is for things to be uncomplicated, rather than lax.

I think two categories is quite enough.

'Easy-achieves': Short story or GM RP session or even RP with a current holder of the class. I'd even put the off-the-batters in here so that people claiming themselves something are sure to have looked into the lore of the class and not -randomly- announcing themselves the class.

'Hard-achievers': These make sense, really, only if you also include a strong server-level encouragement to recognise these classes' relative superiority, and not just specialisation. In their case, I see necesity for some work and GM approval before beginning and upon considering you've finished.

As for free-form character development, I think this'd be great, but as something separated from Prestiges. Like special profiles allow you to do new things, I'd love the staff to be open to ideas skimming on the edge of lore so long as they're responsably RPd. Ideas like a DK whose rune-weapon's a gun, lore-confirmed class-race combinations that are not widespread or even the occasional ICly earned position of authority.

A tightly related issue - 'The Fight-giant-ants syndrome'. Not least, I'd like CotH as a whole to move on from the 'avarage character' idea. PCs are the elites, the top - when their player wants them to. Or so I'd see them. You can't fight your way into Stormwind and up to the throne-room, of course. But characters tend to be IC-ly treated like they were treated in-game in the 1-15 range rather than at least a decent 40. Moving to such a Level-40 perception (or similar criteria) wouldn't, in my view, make room for 'broken RP'.

[ForsakenSoul]

I don't see why we can't implement both of those systems into one. My summary of most of these opinions is a four level system where the first two levels would be the free-form system, while the other two would have more strict guidelines.

First Level: Personal development
The free form development system would go here. Players would make a storyline or something, with or without Gm approval and could be able to rp somewhat specialised and improved classes, as long as they use common sense. This would let you get more specialised in one school of your art. Like picking a talent tree perhaps.

Second Level:GM monitored personal development
The same as previous but with a GM checking it out. It will also give a lot freedom, and you will get the chance to improve and/or specialise your characters even more.

Third Level: Specialised or easily achievable prestige classes
These would be the actual prestige classes, the point where your characters stops being a base class and becomes something else. These classes wouldn't be beneficial stronger then base classes, but they will add flavor to the rp, as you will rp staff that you couldn't as a base class.

Fourth level: Hardly achievable or epic prestige classes

Classes that are substantially more powerful then base classes would go here. These would be most hard to achieve, with a process of a GM checking every post, and with a high criteria of allowing them, but they would allow for a lot of min-maxing and characters improvement in skill, kinda like the old system.

[Saintraven]

I feel myself uncomfertable using classes in IC language to be honest. "Hmm.. Okay you shoot and have a pet. You must be a hunter."

I always considered class/prestige classes, more like labels/titles given to you by others. Some you avoid, some you strive for. They're more like... What you have done, not who you are.

A simple hunter can be a many thing besides a hunter. A agile warrior, beastmaster, marksman, ranger, tracker, scout and etc.

When it comes to RP; I would definately enjoy more freedom from the classes, prestiege and otherwise.

[ruwendje44]

I don't see why we can't implement both of those systems into one. My summary of most of these opinions is a four level system where the first two levels would be the free-form system, while the other two would have more strict guidelines.

First Level: Personal development
The free form development system would go here. Players would make a storyline or something, with or without Gm approval and could be able to rp somewhat specialised and improved classes, as long as they use common sense. This would let you get more specialised in one school of your art. Like picking a talent tree perhaps.

Second Level:GM monitored personal development
The same as previous but with a GM checking it out. It will also give a lot freedom, and you will get the chance to improve and/or specialise your characters even more.

Third Level: Specialised or easily achievable prestige classes
These would be the actual prestige classes, the point where your characters stops being a base class and becomes something else. These classes wouldn't be beneficial stronger then base classes, but they will add flavor to the rp, as you will rp staff that you couldn't as a base class.

Fourth level: Hardly achievable or epic prestige classes

Classes that are substantially more powerful then base classes would go here. These would be most hard to achieve, with a process of a GM checking every post, and with a high criteria of allowing them, but they would allow for a lot of min-maxing and characters improvement in skill, kinda like the old system.

This is one of the most appealing ways of putting in both systems.

[Aphetoros]

I don't see why we can't implement both of those systems into one. My summary of most of these opinions is a four level system where the first two levels would be the free-form system, while the other two would have more strict guidelines.

First Level: Personal development
The free form development system would go here. Players would make a storyline or something, with or without Gm approval and could be able to rp somewhat specialised and improved classes, as long as they use common sense. This would let you get more specialised in one school of your art. Like picking a talent tree perhaps.

Second Level:GM monitored personal development
The same as previous but with a GM checking it out. It will also give a lot freedom, and you will get the chance to improve and/or specialise your characters even more.

Third Level: Specialised or easily achievable prestige classes
These would be the actual prestige classes, the point where your characters stops being a base class and becomes something else. These classes wouldn't be beneficial stronger then base classes, but they will add flavor to the rp, as you will rp staff that you couldn't as a base class.

Fourth level: Hardly achievable or epic prestige classes

Classes that are substantially more powerful then base classes would go here. These would be most hard to achieve, with a process of a GM checking every post, and with a high criteria of allowing them, but they would allow for a lot of min-maxing and characters improvement in skill, kinda like the old system.

This is one of the most appealing ways of putting in both systems.