Keeping or Ditching the Prestige System

[Miah]

Only meant for event's GM's allready run, not literally make ones purely for this
Or, well, if its not a good one for only gm's, then how about some kind of voting system, wherein, if you had some really great RP with a certain character, you could vote to increase that character's repuation. Could make it a once per character thing to stop people abusing the system. Maybe that would work?

I dunno, im just throwing out ideas at this point

[ThePharaoh]

You made a lot of good points. I am once again curious how we would proceed however. To remove the prestige altogether what would happen to the Demon Hunter. Would he be locked away as the only player recently who got to achieve such because the system was still up. Or does that open the class or idea to more players. I am a fan of prestige abilities as I've stated but gaining influence and respect like Nostra stated seemed to be a good idea. I see why It would be hard to implement though. Just as one could claim to be a noble, strong DK or a witch doctor with convincing RP one can rp being important with influence. Guild leaders do it all the time.

Scrapping the system seems extreme, but I understand the reasoning. Most wow chars, and abilities granted do tend to get OP if you take them at face value. Playing DnD you would have your spells and abilities at your disposal, and it takes you some time to achieve those. If you level a char on wow your spell book has quite the number of attacks and some rather devastating.

We're taking text-based roleplay (visual aid or not) and putting in all of these complicated D20 concepts and ideas in there, requiring a five paragraph essay, and all of this, just for the right to call yourself what a basic unit was in Warcraft 3. I can't be the only one who thinks that's a mite bit silly.

This also is a valid point. Rangers and things like that shouldn't be prestige in my opinion. Nor should pilots or a few other classes that were on the list. There should be a cut off point however. Demon Hunters, and other classes that it would be unfortunate to see in mass quantities. How would one obtain them? I dunno, maybe some kind of RP or story is fine just nothing excessive. I still think making your own class would be cool. Ability to shape shift or fly * wipes drool * Although the prestige template is better set for DnD where you use stats and here on CoTH stats are pretty much. "You have 5-10hp" A prestige title serves no purpose. At least not the same purpose we have in DnD.

We still have to admit there are prestige titles in wow, they're just on a grander scale. Like Thrall holding together the maelstrom, Medivh or Arthas. These characters have done some pretty crazy stuff, and even if you're a level 80 spirit walkin' witch doctor you're not messing with Thrall. I know we're trying to keep things ready for cata so changes wouldn't be wise as of yet. But it would be cool for drastic changes to be done by chars and they could earn prestige that way. Say someone devotes there time to cleaning the ruins of Silvermoon, like Raka Jin regained the echo isles, or the GSF trying to reclaim gnommergon. That's how you could gain prestige, ICly, and influence. You don't have to be world renown, but a lot of people knew and respected Raka. trolls or not. We as players just have boundaries where we can go and what we can aspire to do honestly.

Death Knights were prestige here, and they finally let them be regular classes around the time I just got grunted. If they wouldn't have changed that I would've missed out on a lot of fun RP I had, and wouldn't have tried to get one. They're more abundant know, and differ from player to player on how they should be portrayed but they are having fun playing them. The only way who can get in our way is us. If we don't use the tier ideas, then open majority of the classes. And when they try to get leveled their profile will show how prepared they are to roll such a class.

And to Miah I think those ideas are good, but would be hard to incorporate. And I'm sure the voting system some would say would be a victim to favoritism and those with many "friends" here. I do think if a system is in place it should be custom fitted to what CoTH is now to take our RP to the next plateau

[Miah]

And to Miah I think those ideas are good, but would be hard to incorporate. And I'm sure the voting system some would say would be a victim to favoritism and those with many "friends" here. I do think if a system is in place it should be custom fitted to what CoTH is now to take our RP to the next plateau

Hmm...buggeration's its hard to think of alternatives. Anyone else got any ideas?

[ThePharaoh]

I dunno I think we should take a look at what boundaries, and limitations we have as RPers from keeping us prestigeous. And figure out ways to gain a different prestige respectfully. Renown can happen I think without having to apply for it. The Frostbrand Marines and Heretic Circus prove that in my opinion. I have characters that have heard of both, ICly from probable sources and the characters have never interacted with anyone from either guild.

We don't want to get too big with things like map editing because it always poses the problem of. What if someone leaves and never returns? Waste of time space and effort. Even if we did a server wide acknowledgment of prestige chars and renown you wouldn't ICly have to respect them. The prestige system probably wont work because it does refer to DnD and "classes" I think we should have a Profile and a Special profile. Add on to the special profile if you wish to add abilities or something like that, Renown for example would be more of a special profile anyway. You could be a renown thief, noble, kingpin or psychopath. None of those are really prestige classes though.

Maybe you want to have your char train to be something else, or transcend into a prestigious class such as demon hunter. Add the change or progression in one well written and conceived special profile. Depending on what the player is asking for may be the level of strictness. Example. "I want to ride a dragon-like creature" GM: "Well you better have a -damn- good reason." A reason so good -I- wont be able to come up with specifically because I fail at lore. But if I want to be some renown thief in which all I'm asking for is the name. "Sabwa fair" hur hur. to be heard around the lands. That's not asking for too much, just have a good reason why. What did you steal that made you so awesome?

[Xigo]

What would happen if we removed the bonuses from Prestige Classes?

I know, I know. Crazy. But still. People should be able to recognize (Well GEE, you're a Gladiator and I'm a Marksman! Surely if you're in melee with me you should get a bonus) or hell, maybe they won't give either side bonuses! It is a recognition of our characters and what they can do, or what they have become through roleplay!

It's about developing the character! Not getting these...these...little 'pluses' to our characters every time we get into a fight.

I essentially just feel more 'important' classes, such as the Blood Mage and Archmage and Ley Walker and Demon Hunter and other assorted things should continue to be locked off without a 'prestige class'. But in no way should they get bonuses in every situation! It's downright ridiculous that a prestige character could walk up to you and say 'Well yeah, I'm a Lightslayer, so all my rolls get +15s against you' and that we -have- to accept that.

Make the system more lenient, but get rid of the bonuses! It'll just create a schism between players with bonuses and without bonuses!

[ChampionMouse]

In actuality, Prestige characters are not promised or garunteed any bonuses. Because most people tend to roll fight, instead of trust fight, this was implemented by some to make things more realistic, so to speak. As in, the chances of a normal Warrior beating up a Gladiator are not going to be so good. It is up to the players involved in the fight to agree on the terms and conditions and what is fair, ultimately. Cooperation and communication go a long way.

A lot of players who went through the effort of all that writing and character development, however, run into the problem where other players don't give them the respect they deserve. This is another reason roll bonuses can become popular. If your characters are constantly walking up to prestigious classes that are usually well respected in your faction and just flat out challenging them left and right....you should realistically expect some consequences.

I don't believe that prestige characters should have the advantage all the time, of course not. But these are some of the reasons that roll bonuses came about and tend to be popular. We can't moderate all of this, just like we don't have an official server-wide combat system.

[ThePharaoh]

I was under the impression our range of skill starting out was peon to grunt of all races. Meaning, I could be a "Work Work" or "Something need doing?" kinda char. Which is like a farmer, or a stablehand to a -basic- warrior. We have strong abilities, such as titan grip, whirlwind, thunder clap, or our druids and mage abilities. Let alone Death Knights, but we aren't even the hero tier chars that you have in WC 3. We should have bonuses because this is a fighting game. I know people like to kick it in the taverns, and have romance that's cool. If that's your stuff then this doesn't really apply to you.

For people who want to participate in Warcraft, who want to go to NOrthrend and fight scourge, or want to participate in the monstrosities of cataclysm you're going to want to be as strong as you can be. I still think we should wipe prestige classes all together and just stick with basic profile and special profile. If you want to be anything that is not basic, roll a special profile and have a gm check that shit out. If it don't fly try again edit it to their liking. Because going with PRestige, special and normal profile someone is getting the short end of the stick. And I'mma tell you it's -not- the normal profiles.

Prestige titles only work if you get a roll bonus as Grak said thats the point. They are for DnD rolling table top RPG's. There is no need to have a prestige if there is no set roll table. So Roll aspecial profile instead to gain things from new ablities, to renown or just a different char. It would be less frustrating and already has an open forum to post profiles in. If the tier prestige titles don't work special profiles seems like the only logical way to do it without forcing the GMs to do more work than they have to. If you all wish to run around in circles and not really make a decision it's your call of course you're the staff. But i'm saying, just do profile and special profile dictate on a player to player basis and call it a day. /shrug.

[Xigo]

In actuality, Prestige characters are not promised or garunteed any bonuses. Because most people tend to roll fight, instead of trust fight, this was implemented by some to make things more realistic, so to speak. As in, the chances of a normal Warrior beating up a Gladiator are not going to be so good. It is up to the players involved in the fight to agree on the terms and conditions and what is fair, ultimately. Cooperation and communication go a long way.

A lot of players who went through the effort of all that writing and character development, however, run into the problem where other players don't give them the respect they deserve. This is another reason roll bonuses can become popular. If your characters are constantly walking up to prestigious classes that are usually well respected in your faction and just flat out challenging them left and right....you should realistically expect some consequences.

I don't believe that prestige characters should have the advantage all the time, of course not. But these are some of the reasons that roll bonuses came about and tend to be popular. We can't moderate all of this, just like we don't have an official server-wide combat system.

Huh. I had always thought Prestiges got bonuses in any situation. If such is not the case...then I am a happy camper.

And just one thing.

A lot of players who went through the effort of all that writing and character development, however, run into the problem where other players don't give them the respect they deserve. This is another reason roll bonuses can become popular. If your characters are constantly walking up to prestigious classes that are usually well respected in your faction and just flat out challenging them left and right....you should realistically expect some consequences.

Is this players OOCly not giving each other respect? Or is this characters ICly not giving a prestige character respect. Because those are two entirely different problems all together! D:

Anyway, I find myself agreeing with a lot of the posts in here. It's very easy to see the positives and negatives to everything. Which makes this a rather tough decision. But in any case, I feel as though this should become a little more lenient. Just a little bit.

[QuantumLegacy]

I was under the impression our range of skill starting out was peon to grunt of all races. Meaning, I could be a "Work Work" or "Something need doing?" kinda char. Which is like a farmer, or a stablehand to a -basic- warrior. We have strong abilities, such as titan grip, whirlwind, thunder clap, or our druids and mage abilities. Let alone Death Knights, but we aren't even the hero tier chars that you have in WC 3. We should have bonuses because this is a fighting game. I know people like to kick it in the taverns, and have romance that's cool. If that's your stuff then this doesn't really apply to you.

For people who want to participate in Warcraft, who want to go to Northrend and fight scourge, or want to participate in the monstrosities of cataclysm you're going to want to be as strong as you can be. I still think we should wipe prestige classes all together and just stick with basic profile and special profile. If you want to be anything that is not basic, roll a special profile and have a gm check that shit out. If it don't fly try again edit it to their liking. Because going with Prestige, special and normal profile someone is getting the short end of the stick. And I'mma tell you it's -not- the normal profiles.

Prestige titles only work if you get a roll bonus as Grak said that's the point. They are for DnD rolling table top RPG's. There is no need to have a prestige if there is no set roll table. So Roll a special profile instead to gain things from new abilities, to renown or just a different char. It would be less frustrating and already has an open forum to post profiles in. If the tier prestige titles don't work special profiles seems like the only logical way to do it without forcing the GMs to do more work than they have to. If you all wish to run around in circles and not really make a decision it's your call of course you're the staff. But I'm saying, just do profile and special profile dictate on a player to player basis and call it a day. /shrug.

I agree with many of you but this basically says what I want. Special and Normal Profiles simply put.

[rentreality]

I vote that the current idea of the prestige class system gets tossed out the window. Let the roleplay run free! It's a self-correcting system, in a way: it takes two to tango. As has been said before, virtually nobody trust fights, and that's the only situation where your prestige-ness would actually matter. In roll fights, you can just negotiate modifiers -- something many of us already do.

So you worked hard to get your current prestige class, and you're unhappy that someone else can slap a title on themselves that you worked hard to get. Stop and think about that a minute: isn't it just vanity? Couldn't you just be glad that you built such an amazing storyline for your character, giving it all the more depth?


...I can see it now. Doctor Mansfield, gaining his prestige class: Epic Chirurgeon Mansfield. Yes... Yes!

rentreality cackles wildly.

[Binkleheimer]

I still say it should take two character profiles.
One normal and then a spesh one at a later date.

[rentiger1]

We should have GM cookies passed out via tickets submitted by other players who RP with you giving a brief description of the rp and what they did to impress you. Then you turn the cookies in for a title.

[Abishua]

We should have GM cookies passed out via tickets submitted by other players who RP with you giving a brief description of the rp and what they did to impress you. Then you turn the cookies in for a title.

That causes a lot more work to be shouldered by the GMs and is very open to abuse. Even unintentionally. I'd honestly feel very...awkward about requesting a personal friend receive a cookie. I think they're great and everything, but I'm super biased to liking them (and all CoTH-monsters <3). And how will a GM make sure it's legit? And how will people really truly know what is worth a cookie and what isn't?

[DaveM]

If it goes in a 'ditching' direction, I think most prestiges should be unrestricted while a list of them should require Special Profiles.

The first that comes to mind is 'Noble', which has functionally been a prestige and has been approved through specials.

[Aphetoros]

I say you can become one of these, for development, but you need to make a post saying you will be, making sure its okay with the GMs quickly first. Just more of a "hey, just lettin' ya know..."