Blizzard favors Horde too much. World of HORDECraft

[Kage]

Exactly, again, I do like the lore, but if something we do now goes against later lore, we should change the part that affects it.

[Binkleheimer]

No it won't. They didn't directly attack Southshore.
They plaguebombed it.
It was a sneak attack out of the blue. No one had any knowledge of it on the Alliance side.
In short, not gonna happen.

[Kage]

Okay. So it doesn't. Although I think that was ment as an example.

[CasualMatt]

What does this have to do with Blizzard liking the horde too much?

Anyone? Throw me a bone here please.

[Kage]

Yeah it doesn't...

[Shane]

I'm not sure I'll agree with you on the literature point. I, for example, have been taught at school that Shakespeare and Pushkin are geniuses. But if I take a book of Shakespeare, I won't like it. I would think it's overpraised. And I will go even further and say that the great poets are thought to be geniuses not due to their merits but rather to the literature critics who claim they are geniuses.

A worthy piece of literature is what is being liked by the majority of the population. Thus I claim that Twilight and Warcraft book are good.

Debating which faction is a better one may look silly at times, but it indeed adds to the atmospher.

For what I've seen on other servers (especially PVP servers) is that the Alliance are being mocked by everyone. Including by their own players. Two days ago I played on a PVP server Eye of the storm lvl60-69 as an Alliance player. We lost, of course. And it happens on almost everyone other existing PVP server. Hordes are more organised. The Alliance are the weak faction.

I don't know how Cataclysm is going to change that. Especially if what I've heard is true - that on Blizzcons Blizzard developers openly proclaim "For the Horde!" and you'll never hear "For the Alliance".
...........
Despite this people obviously like Horde more, are better organised but I've yet to hear a sound argument from Hardcore PVPers why they prefer Horde... Except for that "We are the bad guys", "I love Sylvanas becaus it's eeevil" etc etc etc.

I agree with your opinion on literary works but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I did not mean to compare Warcraft's lore to say Shakespear, Beckett or any other acclaimed work but was trying to explain that the lore has not been written for literature's sake rather to provide a backdrop for the games. They put in ridiculous and outlandish events and idealized characters that people could fawn over, that is my main gripe with it. This is as far as I agree with you.

Just because people like it doesn't mean it is a 'worthy piece of literature'. If the herd's choice is that important then Michael Bay is the Akira Kurosawa of our times and Justin Bieber the Jimmy Hendrix. Indulge in what you like but don't try to justify its worth by popularity.

And again how does it matter what other players say about the Alliance or that devs hurray for the Horde? You have reason to like the Alliance more, shouldn't that be enough? How would the rest of the populace being fans of the Alliance change things?

About your heroes' statement:- Why is the Horde lacking in popular characters reason for not liking the faction? If someone considers a faction better because it has 'badass' or 'evil' characters, what is wrong with that? The only reason you like the humans' heroes are because the story writers want you to.

I would ask : where are the greatest Horde heroes? I mean - except Thrall and maybe Grom? The only Horde hero except Thrall who I really really really loved was Broxigar Saurfang. After finishing the War of the Ancients trilogy I could say - I loved Brox more than Malfurion, more than Rhonin and more than Krassus.

The Horde doesn't have more one-dimensional, shallow heroes like the Alliance is simply because the writers have decided not to create them. That's that.

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This server does its very best to stick to the Blizzard lore.

If that is not what you want, there are other RP servers where they muddle with the lore how they please.

That should be the end of this discussion.

Yes, the server prides itself in being faithful to WoW lore, I wouldn't say that it is necessarily a good thing. It would be better if we could make appropriate changes wherever we find the background storyline to be screwed up. It would be best if there was a discussion on this.

[Grakor456]

For those of you proclaiming that Blizzard favors Horde, I want you to do the following:

1. Tally up the number of major villains in WoW that have been slain by a member of the Alliance or an Alliance race (hint: Onyxia, Illidan, and Arthas.)
2. Tally up the number of major villains in WoW that have been slain by a member of the Horde or a Horde race (hint: No one.)
3. Look objectively at the two new Cataclysm races. Guess which one will be significantly more popular than the other (hint: Worgen.)
4. Remember the reason by Blood Elves were added to the Horde (hint: to balance populations between the two factions.)
5. Ponder the paradox given numbers 3 and 4 above.
6. Guess which is less popular as a character: Garrosh or Varian Wrynn (hint: Garrosh.)

Don't make me bring up Alterac Valley next.

[Bovel]

They don't favour horde, they just give Alliance more oppotunity to be herioc and make horde seem less epic since their strength seem to lie in numbers and nothing else.

[Zvezdichko]

For those of you proclaiming that Blizzard favors Horde, I want you to do the following:

1. Tally up the number of major villains in WoW that have been slain by a member of the Alliance or an Alliance race (hint: Onyxia, Illidan, and Arthas.)

Indeed. Many major villains in Wow have been slain by a member of the Alliance. Fact.

2. Tally up the number of major villains in WoW that have been slain by a member of the Horde or a Horde race (hint: No one.)

Not exactly true.

1. Mannoroth - slain by Grom Hellscream. Skeleton is visible in Orgrimmar.

2. Sargeras - not slain, but we should use another measure bar as he's a Titan and cannot be defeated by a mortal creature. We have two cases:

2.1. Avatar of Sargeras faced by Aegwyyn. The Avatar was killed, but the spirit passed inside Medivh.

2.2. Surprise! Broxigar (Horde hero) wounded Sargeras and it was enough to prevent him from entering Azeroth! This was heroic!

3. Varimathras - killed (presumably or in the twisting nether) by Thrall and Sylvanas Windrunner.

3. Look objectively at the two new Cataclysm races. Guess which one will be significantly more popular than the other (hint: Worgen.)

True. But I already can see three disadvantages:

1. Lack of mounts.

2. Lack of their own territory. Goblins have the Lost Isles. The worgens have a stupid tree.

3. Worgens were introduced only recently in Warcraft lore. The goblins were present for a long time in games before World of Warcraft. There have been many people who have expected playable goblins and will like to play the race.

4. Remember the reason by Blood Elves were added to the Horde (hint: to balance populations between the two factions.)

Not exactly true. The Frozen Throne leaves an unfinished story and Blood Elves can never join the alliance thanks to the douchebag Garithos.

And this is a very nice example of Horde favouritism. BC was a blood elf campaign. They got Eversong woods and Quel'Thalas. Wait... wasn't Quel'Thalas supposed to be ruined? Why is the city still alive? And I want the Alliance to get back Lordaeron, Gilneas city or at least Alterac (which should be easy), dammnit!

The Alliance got only the space goats and two islands.

5. Ponder the paradox given numbers 3 and 4 above.

Whether it will be a paradox will have to be seen later.

6. Guess which is less popular as a character: Garrosh or Varian Wrynn (hint: Garrosh.)

I doubt it. Garrosh was introduced in the Burning Crusade so time has passed and people got to know him.

My opinion.

[sunday12321]

Looks like you dislike the Alliance, but don't want the Horde, either. Have you considered taking things easy?

[Krilari]

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3. Look objectively at the two new Cataclysm races. Guess which one will be significantly more popular than the other (hint: Worgen.)

True. But I already can see three disadvantages:

1. Lack of mounts.

2. Lack of their own territory. Goblins have the Lost Isles. The worgens have a stupid tree.

3. Worgens were introduced only recently in Warcraft lore. The goblins were present for a long time in games before World of Warcraft. There have been many people who have expected playable goblins and will like to play the race.

Actually I'm going to dispute this.

1) From what I've been told, the worgen not only can use mounts but their lack of mounts will also be made up with more mounts from the other factions. Plus, who dosen't love running wild?

2) The goblins don't get the lost islands. They blow that up too.

3) Worgen have always been there, they were summoned via scythe to aid the night elves and they went wild yadda yadda yadda. My point is they have lore, its just not a whole lot of it.

[Grakor456]

1. Mannoroth - slain by Grom Hellscream. Skeleton is visible in Orgrimmar.

2. Sargeras - not slain, but we should use another measure bar as he's a Titan and cannot be defeated by a mortal creature. We have two cases:

2.1. Avatar of Sargeras faced by Aegwyyn. The Avatar was killed, but the spirit passed inside Medivh.

2.2. Surprise! Broxigar (Horde hero) wounded Sargeras and it was enough to prevent him from entering Azeroth! This was heroic!

3. Varimathras - killed (presumably or in the twisting nether) by Thrall and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Mannoroth and Sargeras were not in WoW. I'm addressing specifically WoW villains at the moment (and if you want to go outside of WoW, the Alliance list gets even longer, considering all the major villains they killed in the series as a whole.) In the context of this game in itself, the Alliance has hijacked far more important kills than the Horde. Varimathras *might* count if you think he's a major villain, but he certainly isn't on the same level as Arthas, Onyxia, and Illidan. Either way, Alliance is far ahead here.

True. But I already can see three disadvantages:

1. Lack of mounts.

2. Lack of their own territory. Goblins have the Lost Isles. The worgens have a stupid tree.

3. Worgens were introduced only recently in Warcraft lore. The goblins were present for a long time in games before World of Warcraft. There have been many people who have expected playable goblins and will like to play the race.

If you think that Goblins are going to outnumber Worgen, you're fooling yourself. Period.

Also, the goblin starting isles are going to be like Gilneas, you're there for the opening and then you leave, never to return.

Not exactly true. The Frozen Throne leaves an unfinished story and Blood Elves can never join the alliance thanks to the douchebag Garithos.

And this is a very nice example of Horde favouritism. BC was a blood elf campaign. They got Eversong woods and Quel'Thalas. Wait... wasn't Quel'Thalas supposed to be ruined? Why is the city still alive? And I want the Alliance to get back Lordaeron, Gilneas city or at least Alterac (which should be easy), dammnit!

The Alliance got only the space goats and two islands.

It is true, that was the reason Blizzard expressly gave us as to why Blood Elves joined the Horde. During Classic, Alliance outnumbered Horde significantly on almost every server, the BE's were added to add a "pretty" race to the Horde in order to change that.

Also, saying BC was a BE campaign is simply laughable. True, Horde had a stronger story connection to the events surrounding Kael'Thas, but Quel'Thalas and the Ghostlands aren't in any way superior to the islands the Draenei got, and the Alliance's story was much stronger when dealing with Illidan himself. Also, in case you missed the memo, the BEs still lost half of their city. They still haven't reclaimed the other half. They needed a capital, and humans already had one in Stormwind. They weren't messing with the old world in BC, so why would humans get back anything in that expansion? That's just ludicrous to complain about.

Also, just want to remind you that those space goats that Alliance "only" got were good-aligned heroes, whereas Horde had an originally villainous race added in BC. Both factions got roughly the same amount of towns and content in BC. Calling it a Horde-favoring expansion is laughable at best.

I doubt it. Garrosh was introduced in the Burning Crusade so time has passed and people got to know him.

Yeah. They got to know that he's an inconsistently-written moron.

People hated Varian too, don't get me wrong. Varian, however, was at least partially redeemed by his actions in Icecrown Citadel. Garrosh is pretty much universally loathed by Horde and Alliance alike, and has never done anything worthwhile (possibly until Cataclysm, but again, he's inconsistently written.)

[Zvezdichko]

I admit I was indeed wrong about the Goblin's starter area. And yes, you're right about Wrynn and Garrosh Hellscream.

Worgen have always been there, they were summoned via scythe to aid the night elves and they went wild yadda yadda yadda. My point is they have lore, its just not a whole lot of it.

Hm... yes. But you learn about this in Wow, not Warcraft III... Well. At least I learned about them in Duskwood and Ashenvale.

I admit I'm wrong on several points. I still remain unconvinced about the Draenei as if they're a good Alliance race. About this... hm, I keep my personal opinion. Not that there couldn't be some great lore behind them as demonstrated in "Beyond the Dark Portal" and "Night of the Dragon". But it has yet to be developed well.

[sunday12321]

Goblins can't even hold their own govern whole, as rumors imply. Whilst Worgen are furry [geeks like furries], and they bite people [People like biting other people] And females dance as Lady Gaga in Poker Face [...Well That ought to attract -some- costumers..].
And they're British-like.

Worgen 1, Goblins [and sadly, WoW Democracy] 0.

[ToxinDoctor]

Well, Goblins...

Spoiler:

Have a RAILGUN pointed at Stormwind! (Position rumored.)