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I just noticed the gains of Amerason.
Yes, he's right about the Dwarves who are now stronger than ever. I would add that Gnomeregan (er, part of it) is a nice addition and the Gnomes are no longer the exiles living under the hat of the Dwarves. The same could be said about the Trolls - who also have their very own land - Echo isles.
I would argue about the other gains. Garrosh may be a gain ( as I said - this is what Warcraft needs now ), but he cannot be a diplomat. Sylvanas looks more like a Lich Queen - completely evil. The Dark Iron dwarves have always been trouble and I believe that their addition is a ticking bomb (like Sylvanas and Garrosh).
Quote:On another note, much like the Blood Elves and Death Knights, roleplayers who play their characters properly and with quality certainly set themselves apart from the masses that flock to the race simply because they look cool. I was worried about this with the Goblins as well, but I realize that the brand-new feeling to the races will eventually fade and what you have left will be the people who continued to play the character for what it is and the mass who still cling to it because of the initial flood from just their looks. I guess what I'm trying to say from this string of ranting is that you'll always have situations like this and the best way to deal with it is to grit your teeth, jump into the tide, and try your best to show that you're different from the mass of players that chose the race/class/what-have-you for shallow reasons.
Indeed. I agree. I will love the tauren in the future. As well as humans. And I'll try to be a different from the mass. I've always tried actually 
Johalvin Hamonar, Human Paladin, proud defender of the Alliance
Motto : Lordaeron will be reborn
Anarak Curvedhorn Tauren warrior who walks with the Earth Mother
Motto : May the Earth Mother watch your steps
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By the way, I would just like to add this. This little cinematic does make the Alliance look rather jerkfaceish. It explains how the Goblins got stranded and decided to side with the Horde... More or less...
Warning: Cataclysm Spoiler
Yes, it's a TotalBiscuit video and there is some gameplay after the cinematic.
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It doesn't make them look jerkfaceish. They just are jerkfaceish. And its a trait I like in terms of the ingame story. Where you assume that naturally, the humans will always be the good guys and the orcs must be the savage and remorseless bunch, but were constantly shown that the alliance can be just as ruthless, or let pride get in the way of morality or rationality (Varian Wrynn), or even more so than the horde.
If alliance were good, and horde were bad, this game would seem stale, but the fact that both are good, and bad, only by perspective, is what makes the conflict between the two so believable.
Play through Alliance, and then play through horde, and all the things you thaught you were doing for good on one faction, suddenly are evil things when your playing from your opposite's perspective. Same with the cinematics or ingame dialogues. Depending on which your playing at the time varies who you side with.
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I'd like to share some more thoughts before going to bed.
The original Alliance of Lordaeron (consisting of seven kingdoms) included:
1. Human kingdom of Lordaeron - Once a glorious kingom. It was left in ruins. Now in the hands of the Forsaken.
The new in Cataclysm is: if anybody hoped that the Alliance will retake at least part of it, it's not going to happen. The Alliance loses absolutely, totally, with no exception the whole lands of Lordaeron. Up to Cataclysm we had several towns still alive who were part of Lordaeron. Southshore, Hillsbrad, Ambermill. Totally destroyed.
I may accept the loss... somehow, thought it would be difficult. After all Lordaeron belongs to its people. And the people of Lordaeron are just... dead (except for those who fled to Theramore). Maybe they do deserve to have their old lands.
2. Human kingdom of Alterac - The smallest one. Perenolde betrayal. The Alterac crisis. The capital in ruins, taken by ogres. Some smaller areas held by Perenolde nobles.
The new in Cataclysm : nothing, actually. The maps still show Alterac in ruins.
3. Human kingdom of Dalaran. Sieged by the Scourge. Destroyed. Rebuilt. Now neutral.
New in Cataclysm: Won't be a hub. Let's hope it''ll stay alive for a while.
4. Human kingdom of Stromgarde. Crippled. A battle zone between Perenolde's people and the Alliance.
New in Cataclysm: The heir, the prince is now a Forsaken. Not good.
5. Human kingdom of Gilneas. Splits from the Alliance after the Alterac crisis. Gilnean wall. Unknown fate.
New in Cataclysm: It turns out that there have been a terrible civil war and the Gilneans are in fact... worgen. People rejoin the alliance, but the City is a battleground. Forsaken people threaten to take the kingdom. This is something I cannot accept as Gilneas isn't their.
6. Human kingdom of Kul Tiras. Status unknown.
New in Cataclysm: Nothing, except for that Tiagarde keep isn't held by Kul Tiras marines, but by Northwatch soldiers.
7. Stormwind. Status alive.
New in Cataclysm: Capital city heavily damaged. The kingdom successfully reclaims Moonbrook (GOOD!) and the bridge to Lakeshire is complete (GOOD!)
Johalvin Hamonar, Human Paladin, proud defender of the Alliance
Motto : Lordaeron will be reborn
Anarak Curvedhorn Tauren warrior who walks with the Earth Mother
Motto : May the Earth Mother watch your steps
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Zvezdichko Wrote:I just noticed the gains of Amerason.
Yes, he's right about the Dwarves who are now stronger than ever. I would add that Gnomeregan (er, part of it) is a nice addition and the Gnomes are no longer the exiles living under the hat of the Dwarves. The same could be said about the Trolls - who also have their very own land - Echo isles.
I would argue about the other gains. Garrosh may be a gain ( as I said - this is what Warcraft needs now ), but he cannot be a diplomat. Sylvanas looks more like a Lich Queen - completely evil. The Dark Iron dwarves have always been trouble and I believe that their addition is a ticking bomb (like Sylvanas and Garrosh).
Don't forget about the dispute between Vol'jin and Garrosh. The loose ties holding the Horde together are being strained quite a bit in Cataclysm!
"The 'Red Death' had long devastated the country. No pestilence had ever been so fatal, or so hideous. Blood was its Avatar and its seal --the redness and the horror of blood. ~And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all. " - Edgar Allan Poe
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Zvezdichko Wrote:I'd like to share some more thoughts before going to bed.
The original Alliance of Lordaeron (consisting of seven kingdoms) included:
1. Human kingdom of Lordaeron - Once a glorious kingom. It was left in ruins. Now in the hands of the Forsaken.
The new in Cataclysm is: if anybody hoped that the Alliance will retake at least part of it, it's not going to happen. The Alliance loses absolutely, totally, with no exception the whole lands of Lordaeron. Up to Cataclysm we had several towns still alive who were part of Lordaeron. Southshore, Hillsbrad, Ambermill. Totally destroyed.
I may accept the loss... somehow, thought it would be difficult. After all Lordaeron belongs to its people. And the people of Lordaeron are just... dead (except for those who fled to Theramore). Maybe they do deserve to have their old lands.
Wow, its amazing I know? We're going to have real PvP RP.
2. Human kingdom of Alterac - The smallest one. Perenolde betrayal. The Alterac crisis. The capital in ruins, taken by ogres. Some smaller areas held by Perenolde nobles.
The new in Cataclysm : nothing, actually. The maps still show Alterac in ruins.
3. Human kingdom of Dalaran. Sieged by the Scourge. Destroyed. Rebuilt. Now neutral.
New in Cataclysm: Won't be a hub. Let's hope it''ll stay alive for a while.
4. Human kingdom of Stromgarde. Crippled. A battle zone between Perenolde's people and the Alliance.
New in Cataclysm: The heir, the prince is now a Forsaken. Not good.
5. Human kingdom of Gilneas. Splits from the Alliance after the Alterac crisis. Gilnean wall. Unknown fate.
New in Cataclysm: It turns out that there have been a terrible civil war and the Gilneans are in fact... worgen. People rejoin the alliance, but the City is a battleground. Forsaken people threaten to take the kingdom. This is something I cannot accept as Gilneas isn't their.
6. Human kingdom of Kul Tiras. Status unknown.
New in Cataclysm: Nothing, except for that Tiagarde keep isn't held by Kul Tiras marines, but by Northwatch soldiers.
7. Stormwind. Status alive.
New in Cataclysm: Capital city heavily damaged. The kingdom successfully reclaims Moonbrook (GOOD!) and the bridge to Lakeshire is complete (GOOD!)
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ToxinDoctor Wrote:Don't forget about the dispute between Vol'jin and Garrosh. The loose ties holding the Horde together are being strained quite a bit in Cataclysm!
You just made a very strong point here. Indeed. Vol'jin and Garrosh "dispute". So called dispute. I'd call it a quarrel with unexpected results. Sylvanas isn't listening to Garrosh and continues using her plague and now she resurrects dead to bolsted the ranks of the forsaken! In the end we have Baine Bloodhoof who doesn't like Garrosh because he challenged his father and his father died. However Baine still supports the Horde because "this is what his father would have done".
The Horde would surely go through hard times in the future. Especially if Sylvanas splits up and forms its own faction (I don't believe this will happen anyway).
On the other side the leadership of Alliance is getting stronger and stronger. We have Gnomeregan and Dark irons back. The Council of the Three hammers rules well (I hope). And now we even got King Genn Greymane back into the Alliance.
I am reaching to a very interesting conclusion:
The Horde does take other lands, but the leadership is weak and they are winning because of the will of individual races. While the Alliance doesn't take its lands back, in fact loses lands, but the leadership is getting very strong.
Johalvin Hamonar, Human Paladin, proud defender of the Alliance
Motto : Lordaeron will be reborn
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Motto : May the Earth Mother watch your steps
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I call lies on this whole Blizzard favors the Horde too much.
In the quest chain "The Day Deathwing Showed Up (Or some suchname)" in the Badlands, you come across three peeps: a dorf, a gnome and an orc.
The dorf punched Deathwing.
The gnome threw Deathwing into Kalimdor.
The orc? He watched as the dorf punched Deathwing... AGAIN.
Clear example of Alliance superiority.
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Binkleheimer Wrote:I call lies on this whole Blizzard favors the Horde too much.
In the quest chain "The Day Deathwing Showed Up (Or some suchname)" in the Badlands, you come across three peeps: a dorf, a gnome and an orc.
The dorf punched Deathwing.
The gnome threw Deathwing into Kalimdor.
The orc? He watched as the dorf punched Deathwing... AGAIN.
Clear example of Alliance superiority.
QFT
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Zvezdichko Wrote:ToxinDoctor Wrote:Don't forget about the dispute between Vol'jin and Garrosh. The loose ties holding the Horde together are being strained quite a bit in Cataclysm!
You just made a very strong point here. Indeed. Vol'jin and Garrosh "dispute". So called dispute. I'd call it a quarrel with unexpected results. Sylvanas isn't listening to Garrosh and continues using her plague and now she resurrects dead to bolsted the ranks of the forsaken! In the end we have Baine Bloodhoof who doesn't like Garrosh because he challenged his father and his father died. However Baine still supports the Horde because "this is what his father would have done".
I believe in one of the dialogues somewhere (might still be on Youtube, I saw it on MMO-Champ a while ago) Vol'jin stated that he'd have no problem with assassinating Garrosh if he got out of hand.
Edit: Here's the dialogue -
I believe the part I'm speaking about begins around 1:25.
"The 'Red Death' had long devastated the country. No pestilence had ever been so fatal, or so hideous. Blood was its Avatar and its seal --the redness and the horror of blood. ~And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all. " - Edgar Allan Poe
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Somehow, I get this uneasy feeling that...well we already know the Horde is basically falling apart. Ties with most of the other races are becoming strained on the Orcish side. Orcs aren't exactly promoting their cause in a positive manner, either. What I think I'm getting at is I think it's quite possible we could in fact see the dissolution of much of the Horde. Despite the dispute between Vol'jin and Garrosh, the Trolls would most likely remain. I see the Blood Elves breaking off and doing whatever, and the same applies to the Forsaken. As for Tauren, well...Baine may remain loyal to the Horde, but I can see some of the Tauren splitting off and joining the Alliance. They have much more in common, and the only reason they joined the Horde as far as I can tell is because the Orcs cleared out the Centaur. If it had been the Humans who did so, they would have been more than willing to join the Alliance, I believe.
Basically, I see that if not towards the end of Cata, then in the next expansion, we may indeed see the end of the Horde as we know it.
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Well, they ARE coming out with a new MMORPG that has nothing to do with any of their games so far, so it may just be the end of the World... of Warcraft.
Every day, I feel more a part of this community. And soon, as I merge with the local populace, I can begin the conversion. One at a time. One of us.
My egg died... Here is its corpse, may it rest in pieces.
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An interesting thing to note, is that as the Alliance loses lands, it's people seem to become more united. As the Horde gains lands, it is politically being torn apart.
Sylvanas originally joined the Horde by telling Thrall the Forsaken needed aid in finding a cure for undeath. This is obviously not true, as is shown during the Wrathgate, Attack on Undercity, and the recent activities in Gilneas. The Forsaken are becoming even more evil, causing them to split further from the Horde...
It seems as if Garrosh has killed Cairne, the beloved leader of the Tauren. Even if the leader of the Grimtotem tribe is responsible, this will definitely cause unrest in the Tauren society.
Trolls have been spoken of, but I'll say it again just for the sake of completing this. Vol'jin is ready to assassinate Garrosh if worse comes to worse, and has openly stated this to the new leader of the Horde.
Blood Elves have never had much of a reason to side with the Horde in the first place in my opinion, aside from the Forsaken, what with the former Ranger General being the leader of the undead faction. If the Forsaken leave, it's not much of a stretch to say the Blood Elves will as well. (Sin'Sholai for those of you who remember it! )
It's not a stretch to also say that many of the orcs are uneasy at the thought of their new bloodthirsty leader. Some may be all for the war hungry leader, but the Horde you have to understand, is used to their nearly pacifistic head figure Thrall, who not only leads them now, but was the founder of the Horde...
"Every gun..."
"...Makes its own tune."
~ The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly ~
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The more things change, the more they stay the same also applies here. The Horde was never terribly united to begin with. As they built a much more powerful façade, they grow weaker internally. Thus, they exhibit great external changes, but on the inside, they are still the same politically failing group as they were. Just a bit worse now.
It applies conversely to the Alliance. Battered, bruised and weakened, the Alliance has lost much territory. Physically, the Alliance is weaker. But internally, the bond that has united them for so long is still there, and in fact growing stronger.
Thus, the more a power changes, grows or declines in martial power, the more its political structure remains in the same condition, for better or worse.
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Should we even be taking the piece of crap that is WoW's storyline seriously?
I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.
Bertrand Russell
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