General Prestige Discussion

[Xigo]

[If you think about it, a prestige class that had only recently become, say, a Felsworn, would have a hell of a hard time fighting a Kal'dorei that is millennia old and is supremely powerful, and yet they don't.

I don't plan on sticking around in this thread, but I do want to say this: Age doesn't define power.

If such were the case, the Draenei would just conquer Azeroth.

[Wuvvums]

I'd also point out that roll bonuses are optional, in fact, they're as optional as roll fights since you can trust fight instead.

If you don't like the setup for the roll bonuses in a fight you are doing you can just tell them you don't consent, or maybe drop out, but I think that some people with prestiges will be willing to work out some solution.

Also when's the last time someone just swooped in on a prestige for the sole purpose of dominating combat rp? More often than not I see prestige fighting reserved to events.

[Aphetoros]

[If you think about it, a prestige class that had only recently become, say, a Felsworn, would have a hell of a hard time fighting a Kal'dorei that is millennia old and is supremely powerful, and yet they don't.

I don't plan on sticking around in this thread, but I do want to say this: Age doesn't define power.

Agree. Just look at IRL. I'd lol if my Grandma tried to beat me up.

[DaveM]

Yep.

In simplest terms, it's PvE.

Any PvP only takes place with perfectly (preferably pre-)agreed consequences of said PvP.

That said, some people just abuse that and have an IC attitude that would obviously get them killed but stand behind the above said rule to mary-sue-ly rather ruin other people's fun. People being douches with it doesn't make it a bad rule, though.

That said, how do you react to the epic prestige guy going: ((I think my character would have a clear upper hand in this circumstance, X and Y considered.)) mid-combat?

You think the guy is abusive with his prestige and generally a annoying RP-powergamer: ((I'd rather not give any bonuses, sorry. If you want this fight to go down, we can roll wihtout bonuses, even if your [Prestige-name] is facing my inexperienced [Base class]. If not, we can retcon the whole ting, no hard feelings. ^^))

You think the guy is legit: ((Sure, some +10 on attacks and +15 on defenses for your guy sound good? Or you wanna' try something else?))

You think he's a story-builder and not a douche, (like all RPers sould be): ((Absolutely, I realise my guy holds a rather outside chance in this, I'd be glad to even trust it into the eventual rather inevitable loss if you like.))

That simple. Non?

Edit: Replace "guy" with "guy/gal" in the above. PC.

[Amerason]

Personally I prefer the old old system where it was hard to get into prestiges. Mind you, I would not have the right to build a character into one of the most powerful of prestiges, Mountain King, right now had it been on the old system, I think. But still, it allowed for less prestiges and it meant more to be a prestige class then...

When it comes down to combat, I shall remain blank on that other than saying that I for one personally don't believe that prestiges should try to actively get into combat RP. Mainly because some of the more powerful prestiges would almost always logically win one on one fights... then again I am a firm believer that if it can bleed, it can die.

[Spiralin]

You know, now when I think about it, the reason people took over prestiges is because this server has very strict limits, on what, and where you can roleplay, I'm not saying that's a bad thing but here, let me roleplay in this thread, how I think it happens.


Guy1: "La la la, just rolling my average warrior, I've seen over and over, it's all I have to play, la la la. On my way."

Guy2: "Still only the same old people from retail WoW, or what I've seen before, I want to roleplay something more exotic."


Guy1: "Woah! What's this, this server -does- let you play variant types of classes with a different skill set!"

Guy2: "No way!? How do I get one?"


Guy1: "Well, there's only a list of a few, so let's see one that may be fun to rp with."

Guy2: "Okay so let's see.... I think an Archmage would fit my character, and they seem fun to roleplay, and something different!"


Guy2 continues: "Hmm, I think he'll be a blood mage, so I can get to roleplay with the verdant spheres, and use phoenixes, that seems really fun."



Guy1: "Okay, so let's see, I think a warden would be exotic! I want to try something like that, I think it'd be fun for arpee! XD"


Guy2: "Okay so I did all this work, and I finally get to play him! I don't really want the bonusses too much, but they're nice."


Guy2's prestige seems underpowered in the eyes of others.


Others: "He's a (so and so tier!) just use his power, he's so strong he could take out x amount of bandits."




So basically where I'm getting at, is this server is so limited on what classes we have, prestiges are treated the same way in the effect that others just want to play them for different skills/roleplay abilities.



Which is why! I think we should just allow prestiges, you may roleplay as so and so, no extra powers, and it's treated just like any other class. Like how I heard DKs were dropped down. Just let warlocks have their pets/roleplay, don't use bonuses and so on.


That's basically how I see it. I'll add in other things to this original reply.



Edit: It's because these extra powers are forced in that I believe it was closed down, since we have so many tier twos, that are 'stronger' then tier ones.

I'd just say, make a legit, reason for why you'd want your character to take this path, send it into, 'two' gms, if they both reply yes, you make a 'storyline' post, minimum of ten posts, of however you want. So that others can see of what your character did, and how it impacted roleplay with others. Through icly how it's seen through their eyes.

No extra bonuses, just roleplay. Come on people!!




EDIT2:

Here, I'll write out an example post of how it'd look if you sent it into GMs, of one of my characters I believe would become a felsworn icly.



EDIT3:


I also think it's a load of junk when people say, 'So and so had made so many prestige posts, they should have extra power.'


Forget extra powers, just enjoy it, of course there may be systems when their comes in ic conflict.

I wouldn't say, just naturally allow them to be better, but when they use certain skills, let them use it.

If X mage casts a fireball at x ley walker, and x ley walker uses a ley-shield, the fireball hits it and floats off, something such as that.

Where as other characters like.... a gnome throws a rock at a tauren, it wouldn't hurt unless a really strong rock, and a really weak tauren. All I'm saying, is make everyone equal, certain powers used icly would outrank another, so just trust that it misses/absorbs, something in that sense.

[muhaha8]

... Is it at -all- possible for us to just let this drop? Us complaining or whatever about prestiges, saying "This is how it should be," and the like isn't doing us much good, if any. We need to just let it go. If prestiges are going to come back, they will. Just don't keep discussing it, and it may happen sooner. "A watched pot never boils"...

[Spiralin]

Okay, so this is sort of turned into a, almost suggestion thread, and comment thread, anyone who likes my idea or something go ahead, but basically this is how it'd look if someone sent in a request!



-----------------------------------------------------------

To: (Two GMs)

Subject: Faelion Sunsong Felsworn Prestige Request


Character Full-name: Faelion Sunsong.

IG Name: Faelion




I believe my character, Faelion Sunsong is well on the way to becoming a felsworn,
he's been addicted to fel for a few years now, but only littler amounts he's been able
to live off of, due to the fact that he's afraid of what he'll become. Recently though he
was taken hostage and was forced/exposed to felblood, and fel magics. Due to this, his
process in mutations has begun, and he's unsure if he'll be able to stop it without dieing.

He's deathly afraid of death itself, and has chosen to continue on and face this head-on,
with that he'd begin to suffer a maximum of only three felsworn mutations. A more scabrous
hide, the growth of a spiked tail, and even a large bodily height/strength increase.

One of the last reasons I wanted this is it would bring about great roleplay in his clan, the
Stormshade, who he's built great relationships with the people of the clan, and him turning
into a felsworn would bring ic drama, not oocly, test of friendships, and all together character
building. With this, he'll be given three weaknesses for his new strengths.

Pros: Increased scabrous thick skin, A long spiked tail which gives balance, and the unnatural
------growth of strength and size.


Cons: Any warlock who was able to capture Faelion, could if given the right amount of time,
-------bind Faelion to their will.
-------A second con would be clumsiness with the greater thick skin, he's willing to take more
-------attacks in battle, but it'd even out as if he was just in a real fight.
-------The third con is that he'll take it easy, he doesn't wish to be a felsworn, and would believe
-------if he used the powers to it's full extent, he'd give into the inner demon. Therefore holding
-------back in melee fights.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



(Send to two GMs) If given approval, begin storyline posts of his journey.

If used in roll fights, roleplay the strengths/weaknesses accordingly and it'll be /roll 100, for both, same crit chance, and so on. If the person your fighting wishes for himself to be weaker, that is his choice.

Then do something similar with almost all 'prestiges'.







If this doesn't make sense to you, refer to my original post in here, and give that a look over.




If anyone also wishes, I'd enjoy feedback upon this idea, if a lot find this as actually a good idea, I may make
an actual post like Brutalskars, explaining this, and maybe the GMs/Admins would like it as well. /shrug

[Grakor456]

The third system: The third system isn't here yet and people are very eager for it to be. In truth we may not see this system for awhile. I can't exactly say why it may be difficult or take a long time to come up with a new system, but I do think the main issue was trying to find a balance between how many prestiges we would have at a time.

Yes and no.

It's true: the first system was problematic due to the rarity, the GM workload, and how difficult it was for players to get in. It wasn't accessible or intuitive. The second system was too free, and we were flooded with prestiges to the point that many prestige titles lost their "specialness".

That wasn't the only problem, though. It also suffered from an over-reliance on d20 lore, a system where people were more concerned with "power" rather than RP opportunities, and a system that was far too complicated for what was a rather simple concept. Note that the first system also had these problems, it just wasn't as noticeable due to how few people were actually dealing with it.

[BountyHunter]

Prestige classes should focus more upon what abilities one may gain from it, not how strong they are.

That is all, I have nothing else to say, heh.

[Drust]

Prestige classes should focus more upon what abilities one may gain from it, not how strong they are.

Like a few say, no one should pick a prestige for power. They pick it to enhance RP and maybe try a new type of it. Further a storyline and make other RP more fun. Instead of thinking about creative ways to kill someone with the new spells and abilities you have... Why not think about maybe how your character could use them in a discussion... Maybe to make a point? An arch druid wants to explain about life, how plants are significant and trees are as equally important as animals. Well he has the power to do that, he has powers in RP others don't and it doesn't have to be an offensive attack.

Even others character development can be used with it, a Beastmaster could learn aspect of the bat, and maybe try to help a blind person and test that ability with that character.

It seems that everyone thinks that prestige are influencing RP negatively, but it has the potential for some pretty amazing and interesting RP. When we think of prestige all we think of is someone more experienced in this or that way of combat... Not someone who may have more knowledge on a subject and instead of blasting them away, may use it to make a point, teach something or maybe even help someones character develop in some way.

That's just my opinion. If it makes no sense whatsoever... Well... I'm tired.

[BountyHunter]

I suppose I should of made that more clear ^.^

Instead of thinking when you're picking a prestige class "Which one is more powerful?" you should be asking "How will these abilities benefit this character?" and by benefit, that means both ICly and RP-wise. If the abilities will be able to give you RP like you suggested Drust with the bat aspect and blind person, then that means that class is going to be much more worth it. However, if a class is going to do nothing more than give you flashy abilities and RP for as long as training lasts then it wouldn't be too worth it.

[Wuvvums]

Well I do believe that some of the prestiges are more powerful and melee oriented, like gladiator, primal, bone crusher, rune master and so on. I wouldn't have any problem with these being battle-focused prestiges. Some though could be alternate ways to play your character. But even some of those who are battle prestiges don't use their characters just for role battles. Gladiator would make sense though for arena fights.

I think it depends on the prestige, and if the roleplayer can be trusted with it. Also thanks for the input, Grakor, I didn't understand the D20 bit of it as much because I don't think I was using D20 rules when I was going for a prestige, and I didn't see many people use D20 inside rp.

[Spiralin]

I've seen a lot of D20 actually Wuvvums, I understand where Grakor is coming from.

[Bovel]

I do see the point of making the three tiers, not against the idea since some of the titles are just another culturespecific name of a basic class or proffession. I think that the main issue with prestiges on CotH is that they are made for the PnP and adapted to that kind of roleplay, not the gamebased kind. IF we are to have any kind of prestige system we have to figure out and design it to fit our kind of roleplay and the game itself.

Out of the two systems I've encountered I must say I prefer the first system. Prestige has come to mean power on CotH and the regulated way fit my taste. With the second system around all we seem to get is whine, drama and a freaky focus on the prestige. Are no people still here from the time when there was more to CotH than prestiges?



In short: controlled prestiges or none at all!