Regarding the Cannibalism issue, (Information/Discussion)

[Mikain]

We could argue back and forth for hours about whether or not it is cannibalism, whether or not it's lore breaking, and we'd probably not get anywhere.

The only thing that irks me about this whole cannibal thing is that, from what I've seen, it's played off as a extra, not a major part of the character, and, in my opinion, 'cannibalism' would be a huge part of the character, it would literally dictate where they can go and who wants them dead.

And if I'm wrong and it is played as a major part of the character, then I have to wonder why 'cannibal' characters are still roaming in the cities, especially their home cities.

[Bolshe]

I'm barely going to get into this? Why? I have basically said that I would not get into this conversation again.

Here are the following things I have to say:
1. It is not lore-breaking/twisting/bending/hurting in anyway. It's just something really, very, quite unusual.
2. The sole reason for Elaszun's dietary habits is not the trauma of her parents getting killed. Really, it's something I'd imagine you be born with- it's just a mental illness. I could easily say that Elaszun is much more twisted than she puts off. She's heavily racist, zealous, sexist, carnivorous, homicidal, volatile, emotional at times, and just generally not a good person.
3. Mikain, you are making a very very bold claim for someone who's only roleplayed with us once or twice. Just because we don't run around with bones in our beards and bloody knives and slitting throats and drinking blood in the Drudaen doesn't mean it's 'minor' to us. Our characters are intelligent enough to know that if they ran someone through in public, they would be immediately unable to use that place as a source of any more victims or even rarely recruits.
4. I am somewhat annoyed that Sersay would be as so selfish as to say that I have had to respond to this by now. I have things to do besides spending time looking for topics about me.
5. I do not roleplay the only cannibal on this server.
6. Frankly, I don't care if people think I'm crazy or whatever (I've received some rude, accusing, and in a few cases very very odd ideas that people have of me and my character). A character is just that- a character. What does concern me, however, is people accusing me of having ulterior motives for roleplaying Elaszun the way she is, or people saying that I am Lore-Breaking.
7. ANY character or being can be deranged on this server. Except, unlike the cliche nutso, I'm not running around talking in riddles or making people drink potions of death. My character just has her own mental illnesses. Sorry for not playing the classic.

I think that's it.

[Faeorial]

I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion except that as I was writing my toon's history, I had contemplated putting in some true Gallic practices, which Blizzard based much of their Kal'dorei lore on to begin with. It wouldn't really be a question of carnivorial practice, or of imbibing the flesh and blood of others (perhaps to gain some of their power) or eating corpses like the Undead do (especially like they did in pre-release Beta, eeek!). It was more of a reference to the actual ancient practice of headhunting...something I believe exists in the WoW universe (I believe trolls still do it as well as eat the flesh of others). On top of the headhunting, are the stone circles, which, depending on which scholar or philosopher's notes you read, were used not [just] for keeping time or watching the stars [alone] but for worship of the dead, and sacrifice. Something important to the Kal'dorei are their sacred groves and Trees, and anyone that knows about the actual practices of the Gallic peoples (or Celts, or Gauls, depending on what/whom you reference) will know such things were a part of their lore, too. So, I was thinking about, as well as trying out RP in the mindset, of my main toon being a sort of harbinger for those whom come in search of someone to perhaps not conduct a sacrifice, but be a harbinger for their remains after the fact, to properly ensure their maintenance or placement follows proper procedure (such as that would be). Not to mention, hanging heads in a belt around my body or on my mount would be relevant to my history if I follow the Gallic history and WoW lore (heck in game there are belts you can earn from Faction that are heads, shrunken if I recall).

When I first heard about the "cannibalism" in the Azshara guild, I took it upon myself to ask Elaszun myself, in character, tempering this with my knowledge of what Blizzard is basing Druids and Kal'dorei on. "Carnivores" would probably be more appropriate if one were to inspect, as I did just to be certain, that actual cannibalism was not taking place outside Undead, because I wasn't certain I was keen on the idea (will I get eaten? ^^; as that wasn't in my character lore, and I found that they aren't eating their own kind. Considering the history of many groups of Celts as well as similar tribes of the region, cannibalism for one reason or another was actually known to have occurred. I'm not against the practice as far as lore goes, I'm not that picky, and I think the WoW lore supports it if only when one looks to the Undead as one example. Obviously the character history, in my opinion, would have to support it, but having a mental instability would, too.

[Delmure]

I think the only debate now wouldn't be "Should it be called cannibalism."

But "Does she need to be a cannibal in the first place?"

Not because it's breaking the Lore. But because of the trouble stirred up by it in the first place. It wasn't as if he didn't know there would be complications, he's an intelligent person. But.

It's Bolshe's choice.

Let'em live with it.

[Bolshe]

Thank ya ladies and gents. We can put this to peace, now?

[Grakor456]

I think the only debate now wouldn't be "Should it be called cannibalism."

But "Does she need to be a cannibal in the first place?"

Not because it's breaking the Lore. But because of the trouble stirred up by it in the first place. It wasn't as if he didn't know there would be complications, he's an intelligent person. But.

It's Bolshe's choice.

Let'em live with it.

That's not the case. I don't think it was ever the case. A character being a cannibal is not bad in isolation. There are some crazy and insane people out there.

Oleander said it best. It's not that there's a cannibal elf. It's how the whole situation is being handled. And it's not just that. It's a combination of character oddities...not just one, or two, or three, but a horde of improbabilities that converge together to make something that no longer makes sense.

Now, is a lesbian/sexist cannibal night elf who attracts a group of all-female followers, many like-minded and bearing the exact same bizarre quirks, and some of a race that should normally be considered a mortal enemy lore-breaking? No, because breaking the lore requires doing something that the lore outright states cannot occur. Nothing is saying that if the stars are properly aligned, Jupiter and Saturn are on opposite sides of the solar system, pigs fly, the cards play out right, you get an itch on your right cheek, Bolvar Fordragon sings "He's a Jolly Good Fellow" backwards while in a dress, and Hell, Michigan literally freezes over like it does every year, then it couldn't then happen. However, as long as people continue to say that it's not at all lore-BENDING, I will continue to speak up and correct them. That many sheer improbabilities right next to each other is bending the lore.

And everyone involved should be man enough to admit it.

[Bolshe]

Now, let's put it back in terms that are realistic. Her sexism is understandable- the Kal'Dorei society is definitely female-based. The guards are female. The leaders are female. The males are all Druids or civilians with only a few holding office. It's not unusual for people to dislike the opposite sex for things that have happened in a relationship. While this doesn't make them homosexual, it can potentially make them sexist.

And, calling Elaszun a lesbian is a stretch. She gets close to her friends, yes, but to call her an outright Lesbian is twisting it.

Next, stop. Banging. Us. About. Befriending. Other. Elves. It is a moot point. You bang us for it, bang all the Trolls who are friends with Gnomes, all the Orcs friends with Humans, all the Undead pals with the Humans, all of them! Our IC choices are our IC choices, and that's an IC choice. That's not Lore-Breaking, Bending, Twisting, ANYTHING.

Next, not even HALF of the Children of Azshara are "cannibalistic" in nature, please only make such claims if you know for a fact- which you don't.

In any case, this conversation is beating a year-long dead horse with a stick.

[Monolith]

I'm going to go off topic here for a second and ask a question that's been bugging me a while.

Why is Elaszun still allowed in the Drudaen tavern? She does nothing there but harass people and make death threats- which usually come true- and every time one of my characters harasses someone they get the boot. Either way, it's just silly that she is still allowed after all this. You'd think Logan woulda had enough of her already.

[Lucheiah]

Wilhelmina, as far as I know, had no taste for flesh whatsoever until she met Elaszun. In fact, as I do remember, she was a simple thief running about the tavern trying to pick pocket gold pouches that weren't there, or off of NPCs. I'm sure she's straightened up, though I don't remember any indication in the character of being 'Cannibalistic'. Whether that is the cunning of the player or in fact just an altering of character, I leave to her to explain.

*Blush* yeah, that was me. I've improved since then. Wil is interested in trying new things, and hell, chewing on one human and the arm of a gnome was a new experience for her. She's happier drinking plum juice or eating.. "normal" food, but she'll accommodate Elas' desire for human* flesh if that's what makes Elas happy. She's perfectly happy creeping people out a little, but at the end of the day, the taste of human* flesh isn't a pathological, biological or psychological need for her, it's just something she indulged in to say that she'd tried it. She's manipulative, and though she's genuinely fond of Elas and wouldn't dream of using her, she will manipulate circumstances - and if that means going along with what her crazy friend thinks is a good time, she'll grin and bear it and appear to enjoy it. She's quite the 'bigger picture' thinker, is Wil. Also, her "it isn't cannibalism if it's not your own kind" quote is just that - a quirky quote that she uses because she thinks it's funny. It's not her rationalising what she and Elas do, it's just her being... weird.

Anyway, so, since what we are doing isn't lore-breaking, can we please leave it alone now? I'm sure I've explained somewhere before how El and Wil came to befriend each other, you can PM me if you want to hear the story (abridged version only).

[Crackbone]

Forgive me for this one-liner post, but to my understanding, this characters guild is the Children of Azshara? If I'm wrong, correct me, but wouldn't the Azshara Sentinels be alarmed at cannibals in their lands?

Anyways, if the Night Elves know of this disturbing trait of her's, wouldn't they just give her the boot and forbid her entrance to Darnassus or any other Night Elf establishment? I'd think so, they're a strict race. This goes the same for -any- other race, maybe even the trolls (Darkspear Tribe).

Example, in comical terms:

[Man]: "Wow, I'm starved. I could sure use something to eat!"
[Guard]: "Well, the Pig and Whistle is a good place to grab a bite to eat! They carry a nice stew."
[Man]: "Nah, I was thinking around the lines of gnome, they're quite tender."
[Guard]: *Blinks and slowly pulls out a set of wrist irons*


I don't even know if she's publicly hungry for manflesh, but by the sounds of it, yes. I doubt it'd be made into this big a' deal. Anyways, looks like this turned out to be a little bit longer than a one-liner, but still short. I -really- don't want to get into this.

[Bolshe]

If you have never RP'd with us, nor know how we operate- do not contribute to any of the arguments about this topic.

Thanks.

[Crackbone]

I was just saying...

[Bolshe]

I was just saying...

It's useless to 'just say' if you're going off on some rabid tangent away from being even relevant.

[kaiken]

I was just saying...

It's useless to 'just say' if you're going off on some rabid tangent away from being even relevant.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Bolshe. You can't just shoot people down because they disagree with you.

[Bolshe]

I was just saying...

It's useless to 'just say' if you're going off on some rabid tangent away from being even relevant.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Bolshe.

Everyone is entitled to an educated opinion. How would you feel if I made an opinion on your parents, being that I have never met them, never saw them, only heard other people say things about them? Would you still feel my opinion is valid?